Jump to content

John Williams scoring all three new Star Wars films!!


karelm

Recommended Posts

Giacchino was never anywhere near this. Some people just invented that idea in their heads. Giacchino isn't deserving of any respect in relation to this; it's an imaginary scenario and nothing more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When you consider the fact that Abrams uses Giacchino like Spielberg uses Williams, and when you remember that Disney brought Giacchino onboard (with Williams' blessing) to adapt music for Star Tours a couple years ago, it wasn't a stretch at all. If it wasn't going to be Williams, it was going to be Giacchino. And in fact, if something happens that prevents Williams from scoring this film, I think we can still expect him to be the one who takes the reins.

Personally, I think Williams, Giacchino, and Abrams have all handled the situation very graciously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Williams had declined, then Gia would have been the most likely candidate by far. Like J J, he is a safe bet for Disney. He has tacked Star Wars music before. Has a strong relationship with the director, and not the type who would rock the boat and deliver something no one expects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure Disney would be thrilled to have Michael Giacchino score Episode VII, he's already brought them an Oscar, somewhat, for best score.

JJ Abrams has every right to bring his own composer on board and if they both decided to defer to Williams then kudos to them.

Either way it's a win / win situation. Hopefully Williams can be inspired and not churn out another AOTC or ROTS, although the writrers will have just as much to say about that as well and hopefully Lucas will be hands off like he was during Empire.

However we've seen enough great composers shit on by studios and their supposed great relationships with directors to believe it was a 100% fact Williams would return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you know Steve made Zimmer head of music at Dreamworks and has expressed his admiration for Hans.....



I'm sure as the next year or 2 passes and details start to emerge on this film and before a single note of music is written, there will be more bitching and moaning about how JJ and Disney are raping our childhood memories by what they are doing to Star Wars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah but Data, for some reason you're overlooking the fact that this is the Star Wars franchise - up to now scored six times soley by one man: the legendary John Williams. The same series which secured his place in cinema history and skyrocketed his career. The series of scores which he rightfully considers his baby. Or even his Magnus opus, ya know?

But apparently that makes him arrogant and rude in some people's minds, I dunno.

I'm sure as the next year or 2 passes and details start to emerge on this film and before a single note of music is written, there will be more bitching and moaning about how JJ and Disney are raping our childhood memories by what they are doing to Star Wars.

And just when people were starting to heal, down there. People aren't ready to be torn a new one so soon, what with it still being a bit tender an all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not everyone is gentle.

Lets just hope JJ and co have more respect for Williams' music and not loop, track and butcher it like it was in the prequels. Let him actually compose music for scenes and not rely on music from previous films.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah but Data, for some reason you're overlooking the fact that this is the Star Wars franchise - up to now scored six times soley by one man: the legendary John Williams. The same series which secured his place in cinema history and skyrocketed his career. The series of scores which he rightfully considers his baby. Or even his Magnus opus, ya know?

Oh, I'm right with you on all that - my point is simply that it was (and perhaps is) reasonable to assume Giacchino would be the most likely candidate IF Williams ended up not being involved in the project for whatever reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still maintain he could have been more open-ended in his response and more gracious about the possibility of transitioning the series into the hands of a new generation.

He wasn't.

In all this Michael Giacchino came out with my highest respects. He has been exemplary in his graciousness since JJ was announced as director.

LoL, much to learn you still have

I'm sure Disney would be thrilled to have Michael Giacchino score Episode VII, he's already brought them an Oscar, somewhat, for best score.

JJ Abrams has every right to bring his own composer on board and if they both decided to defer to Williams then kudos to them.

Either way it's a win / win situation. Hopefully Williams can be inspired and not churn out another AOTC or ROTS, although the writrers will have just as much to say about that as well and hopefully Lucas will be hands off like he was during Empire.

However we've seen enough great composers shit on by studios and their supposed great relationships with directors to believe it was a 100% fact Williams would return.

Lucas in fact was very involved during Empire. Just read the Making Of book and you will understand. Let's hope Lucas will still be involved. He did a fantastic job no matter what the prequel bashers say and just needs equal collaborators like JJ, Kennedy to churn out the goods like TESB.

JJ Abrams has no right at all to bring his own composer on board. He is just a hired director who gets what Kennedy, Disney, Lucas and Spielberg give him (Spielberg still has big influence on the project). If JJ is a true Starwars fan JW would always be his first choice anyways.

AotC is very underrated and ROTS was a fantastic score, almost masterpiece level. If we get a score as good as RotS we can be more than happy and i don't believe we would get that with Giacchino yet.

Nevertheless i hope that Giacchino will score a Starwars film when JW passed the torch. (hopefully not before episode IX)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You just realized this? ;)

SF1 is a decent version of Genius Gone Insane.

Hey SF1, if J.J. is just a puppet for the producers why the hell did Kathleen Kennedy keep fighting to sign him on when he first refused? No creative input my ass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm probably one of the few pro JW fans on this board bothering to post anything in response to the anti Williams stance that some of you try to show in many threads. If Blumenkohl or Koray think that this is strange just look at the title of this forum.. It certainly isn't Giacchinofan.net or Zimmerfan.net and never will be!

JJ Abrams is a true Starwars fan and for a true fan the first choice of composer always is John Williams. He is no puppet but i am sure the film deal will have included JW as composer choice and Abrams agreed like anyone with a sane mind would.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I respect his decision to score the film but believe it's not the right one

Star wars is being handed down to a younger generation and I think it would be better to let another composer take over the reigns.

I remember how the great Jerry Goldsmith shared scoring with Joel McNeely on Air force one and his son Joel on Star Trek First Contact. I know JG had a strong personality but in watching interviews of him he does seem like a very down to earth film composer. He never let it go to his head. As humble as JW seems, actions may speak louder than words in this case.

For me I think the best result would be Michael Giacchino and JW collaboration. This would be a great blend of styles and could bring some strong themes to the table unfortunately either Williams wants full control of every project that bears his name or as someone alluded to above he wants to keep control of the Star Wars themes. Another factor is that his writing is not getting any better - Tintin was just a rehash of Indiana Jones and Harry Potter. As good a composer as he once was, those days are over.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah great, another Anti Williams troll. This baffles me, what are you haters doing here. JW won't live forever and all Starwars films past his lifetime will need a new composer anyways. Your post proves that you have no clue about John Williams at all.

Ah damn, i just fed the troll...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so thrilled that Williams seems genuinely excited to do this!

Williams isn't a "collaborative" composer, for many -and very good- reasons:

-Williams is a composer first and film composer second; there is an artistic integrity, core and soul to his work that would be lost were he to collaborate with anyone. I'm sure such a prospect would seem very uncomfortable (and uninteresting) to him.

-His skill and expertise (I will refrain from mentioning talent) is presently unmatched (in Hollywood) to such an extent that unless someone were to bring an entirely different (non-classical, non-orchestral) approach, there wouldn't be room for any real contribution; all anyone could offer would really be a diminishing of quality. And I'm sure JJ Abrams and Michael Giacchino know this very well.

There is a reason why Williams is such a revered figure in Hollywood. And a reason why Giacchino responded not as a colleague, not as a competitor, but as a fan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree with your first point - and it's what sets virtually anyone apart from the RCP clan. I'm of the firm opinion that there's an integrity and quality you can only get by composing by yourself, by allowing the score to develop properly.

Don't agree with your second. The idea that another composer couldn't possibly make 'any real contribution' to the franchise is exceptionally narrow minded. We've had that debate though :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As long as he manages to write interesting end title intros and outros this time, i'm all for it.

That is probably the biggest weakness of the RotS score. There would have been so many possibilities like further development of RotS original dramatic material or even an Emperor's Theme concert arrangement. The version we got was more or less foreshadowing the "New Hope" and not the actual "Revenge of the Sith".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Williams isn't a "collaborative" composer, for many -and very good- reasons:

-Williams is a composer first and film composer second; there is an artistic integrity, core and soul to his work that would be lost were he to collaborate with anyone. I'm sure such a prospect would seem very uncomfortable (and uninteresting) to him.

So what about all those times he collaborated with other composers? He didn't desire artistic integrity with Superman IV?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As long as he manages to write interesting end title intros and outros this time, i'm all for it.

That is probably the biggest weakness of the RotS score. There would have been so many possibilities like further development of RotS original dramatic material or even an Emperor's Theme concert arrangement. The version we got was more or less foreshadowing the "New Hope" and not the actual "Revenge of the Sith".

the 'new hope' ending was the best thing they could have done. The sith already took their revenge on ROTS (as far as we know from the film, only yoda and kenobi survived).

Now that the finale music bridge could have been scored better or even have used luke & leias theme at some point (birth for example), that's debatable...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Williams isn't a "collaborative" composer, for many -and very good- reasons:

-Williams is a composer first and film composer second; there is an artistic integrity, core and soul to his work that would be lost were he to collaborate with anyone. I'm sure such a prospect would seem very uncomfortable (and uninteresting) to him.

So what about all those times he collaborated with other composers? He didn't desire artistic integrity with Superman IV?

Yep. Same thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so thrilled that Williams seems genuinely excited to do this!

Williams isn't a "collaborative" composer, for many -and very good- reasons:

-Williams is a composer first and film composer second; there is an artistic integrity, core and soul to his work that would be lost were he to collaborate with anyone. I'm sure such a prospect would seem very uncomfortable (and uninteresting) to him.

-His skill and expertise (I will refrain from mentioning talent) is presently unmatched (in Hollywood) to such an extent that unless someone were to bring an entirely different (non-classical, non-orchestral) approach, there wouldn't be room for any real contribution; all anyone could offer would really be a diminishing of quality. And I'm sure JJ Abrams and Michael Giacchino know this very well.

There is a reason why Williams is such a revered figure in Hollywood. And a reason why Giacchino responded not as a colleague, not as a competitor, but as a fan.

I wouldn't want a Giacchino-Williams collaboration.

Also, this "film composers aren't real composers/artists" attitude is what composers like Williams fought against their entire careers. Your first statement is a perpetuation of a stereotype that has plagued wonderful artists from the Steiners and Roszas to our modern day Williams. It seems you have adopted the stereotype, but tweaked it just enough to let John Williams in, in the process missing the spirit of these men's efforts against this stereotype for the last century. What a shame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm so thrilled that Williams seems genuinely excited to do this!

Williams isn't a "collaborative" composer, for many -and very good- reasons:

-Williams is a composer first and film composer second; there is an artistic integrity, core and soul to his work that would be lost were he to collaborate with anyone. I'm sure such a prospect would seem very uncomfortable (and uninteresting) to him.

-His skill and expertise (I will refrain from mentioning talent) is presently unmatched (in Hollywood) to such an extent that unless someone were to bring an entirely different (non-classical, non-orchestral) approach, there wouldn't be room for any real contribution; all anyone could offer would really be a diminishing of quality. And I'm sure JJ Abrams and Michael Giacchino know this very well.

There is a reason why Williams is such a revered figure in Hollywood. And a reason why Giacchino responded not as a colleague, not as a competitor, but as a fan.

I wouldn't want a Giacchino-Williams collaboration.

Also, this "film composers aren't real composers/artists" attitude is what composers like Williams fought against their entire careers. Your first statement is a perpetuation of a stereotype that has plagued wonderful artists from the Steiners and Roszas to our modern day Williams. It seems you have adopted the stereotype, but tweaked it just enough to let John Williams in, in the process missing the spirit of these men's efforts against this stereotype for the last century. What a shame.

I've never said film composers aren't real composers, that would be absurd.

But I do believe that the kind of collaborative processes that have become more and more the norm in much mainstream film music production tend to diminish the singular contribution of singular talents. There are certainly still many clear, artistic voices within the film music community beyond Williams, but at the same time, there is a strong tendency towards watered down, streamlined factory-production, and it hurts film music both for those who appreciate it as an art form, and those who wish to practice it as such.

Viewing this from a practitioner's perspective, I will freely admit that I am both deeply concerned and terribly disheartened by the enormous lack of musical ambition in so much current film music fare, even though it is easy to blame this on fear of insufficient commercial appeal on behalf of studios, producers etc.

(Briefly, @ Koray: I wouldn't call Williams' involvement with Superman IV a true collaboration, but rather a token of friendship and loyalty. I doubt Williams truly felt involved with that score on any artistic level. For any other collaborations in his ouvre, they have been with musicians representing entirely different crafts and traditions)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough regarding film composer/composer.

So moving on to your collaboration point, do you believe that it's the collaboration in film music that's leading to the watered down music, or do you think it might more likely be the monetary-driven pressures to adhere to a narrow "formula" or "recipe" for film music? Maybe the collaboration just happens to be correlated with that faulty system, rather than causing the resulting homogeneity.

On paper at least it would seem like collaboration (pursued for artistic purposes rather than efficiency) would yield even more singular, interesting, and unique material, as opposing ideas and methods are put against each other to resolve into new ones.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are collaborative scores that weren't Remote Control ones:

Air Force One - Jerry Goldsmith and Joel McNeely

Star Trek VIII - First Contact - Jerry Goldsmith and Joel Goldsmith

Jack the Giant Killer - Paul Sawtell and Bert Shefter

Antz, Chicken Run, Shrek - Harry Gregson-Williams & John Powell (technically... half Remote Control? Or something?)

^ Not such bad scores, I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough regarding film composer/composer.

So moving on to your collaboration point, do you believe that it's the collaboration in film music that's leading to the watered down music, or do you think it might more likely be the monetary-driven pressures to adhere to a narrow "formula" or "recipe" for film music? Maybe the collaboration just happens to be correlated with that faulty system, rather than causing the resulting homogeneity.

On paper at least it would seem like collaboration (pursued for artistic purposes rather than efficiency) would yield even more singular, interesting, and unique material, as opposing ideas and methods are put against each other to resolve into new ones.

Collaboration for artistic purposes can be fruithful, I think, but remains contingent on an actual artistic contribution. The challenge is to have enough space to be able to offer something of merit and substance, while at the same time making sure that there's some sort of coherency -or at the very least, an interesting dynamic or tension- to the sources at hand. For this reason, I tend to prefer as heterogenous a collaborative pairing as possible.

There are creative duos and teams that succeed in establishing a kind of artistic "mutuality", although I've never personally been quite as convinced by such "collective" voices. Just as a choir blurs the color of the individual voice, so do I perceive -perhaps incorrectly or clouded by prejudice- a slight diminution of personality to such ventures. Unless they work more the way a band works, with often quite clearly defined roles and capacities.

(Some of the collaborations mentioned (Goldsmith&McNeely on "Air Force One", Goldsmith&Goldsmith on "Star Trek: First Contact") are primarily examples of collaboration dictated by time constraints, and that's entirely different.)

True, the monetary-driven pressure to adhere to what may currently be perceived as a successful "formula" (based on perceived commercial viability) is probably the one greatest obstacle facing anyone who wishes to contribute something more personal and (very likely) of greater artistic ambition and integrity.

I've dealt with this myself in my own limited experience with feature films, and it's one of the reasons why I primarily work in the field of concert music, though I'd love to score more films.

Even relatively modest productions generally have a lot of money at stake, and of course, everyone wants their film to be as successful as possible (also financially), and music tends to be an easy thing to blame and replace. In my experience, producers want to hear something that is as close to the finished product as possible, as soon as possible, and ideally as close to their expectations as possible; all three potentially problematic, as far as I'm concerned.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(Some of the collaborations mentioned (Goldsmith&McNeely on "Air Force One", Goldsmith&Goldsmith on "Star Trek: First Contact") are primarily examples of collaboration dictated by time constraints, and that's entirely different.)

Could we not argue that since those collaborations worked out fine while on a rigid time constraint, they could have worked out equally well or better if they'd have had more time available?

Another question would be though, could they have been better if Goldsmith alone had written the entirety of those scores?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough regarding film composer/composer.

So moving on to your collaboration point, do you believe that it's the collaboration in film music that's leading to the watered down music, or do you think it might more likely be the monetary-driven pressures to adhere to a narrow "formula" or "recipe" for film music? Maybe the collaboration just happens to be correlated with that faulty system, rather than causing the resulting homogeneity.

On paper at least it would seem like collaboration (pursued for artistic purposes rather than efficiency) would yield even more singular, interesting, and unique material, as opposing ideas and methods are put against each other to resolve into new ones.

Collaboration for artistic purposes can be fruithful, I think, but remains contingent on an actual artistic contribution. The challenge is to have enough space to be able to offer something of merit and substance, while at the same time making sure that there's some sort of coherency -or at the very least, an interesting dynamic or tension- to the sources at hand. For this reason, I tend to prefer as heterogenous a collaborative pairing as possible.

There are creative duos and teams that succeed in establishing a kind of artistic "mutuality", although I've never personally been quite as convinced by such "collective" voices. Just as a choir blurs the color of the individual voice, so do I perceive -perhaps incorrectly or clouded by prejudice- a slight diminution of personality to such ventures. Unless they work more the way a band works, with often quite clearly defined roles and capacities.

(Some of the collaborations mentioned (Goldsmith&McNeely on "Air Force One", Goldsmith&Goldsmith on "Star Trek: First Contact") are primarily examples of collaboration dictated by time constraints, and that's entirely different.)

True, the monetary-driven pressure to adhere to what may currently be perceived as a successful "formula" (based on perceived commercial viability) is probably the one greatest obstacle facing anyone who wishes to contribute something more personal and (very likely) of greater artistic ambition and integrity.

I've dealt with this myself in my own limited experience with feature films, and it's one of the reasons why I primarily work in the field of concert music, though I'd love to score more films.

Even relatively modest productions generally have a lot of money at stake, and of course, everyone wants their film to be as successful as possible (also financially), and music tends to be an easy thing to blame and replace. In my experience, producers want to hear something that is as close to the finished product as possible, as soon as possible, and ideally as close to their expectations as possible; all three potentially problematic, as far as I'm concerned.

Interesting. Sounds like we largely agree. Speaking of your composing, when can I expect my Marcus Paus collection to grow beyond Upperdog and Umea4ever and the one or two individual pieces you've released here and there? These concert works of yours need to be recorded! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not an anti-JW bandwagon. It's about whats in the best interest of Star Wars going forward. Seeing as the music plays such an important role in SW I would have thought there should be some consistency. Going from a JW style score to a RCP style would be inconsistent and although Giacchino writes for orchestra, he doens't really write in a symphonic style that would suit Star Wars IMHO (ie not very memorable...).

It will be interesting to hear what he writes for this film though as original as JW is I think his originality has declined from 2005. I liked Tin-tin on a first listen but it really is full of self plagiarism and quotes from Indiana Jones and Harry Potter and mickey mousing, despite it's polish it lacks a lot of originality ( look at the low view count on youtube). War hose and Lincoln were much better efforts but they are less JW and more JW channeling other composers.

Just my 2c but I believe if film music is to develop into a greater artform the style will be influenced by RCP to some degree. Composers such as Alexandre Desplat, Klaus Badelt and John Powell have proved you can incorporate some of the RCP sound but still compose music that has personality and pushes the boundaries of film music in a different direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not an anti-JW bandwagon. It's about whats in the best interest of Star Wars going forward. Seeing as the music plays such an important role in SW I would have thought there should be some consistency. Going from a JW style score to a RCP style would be inconsistent and although Giacchino writes for orchestra, he doens't really write in a symphonic style that would suit Star Wars IMHO (ie not very memorable...).

It will be interesting to hear what he writes for this film though as original as JW is I think his originality has declined from 2005. I liked Tin-tin on a first listen but it really is full of self plagiarism and quotes from Indiana Jones and Harry Potter and mickey mousing, despite it's polish it lacks a lot of originality ( look at the low view count on youtube). War hose and Lincoln were much better efforts but they are less JW and more JW channeling other composers.

Just my 2c but I believe if film music is to develop into a greater artform the style will be influenced by RCP to some degree. Composers such as Alexandre Desplat, Klaus Badelt and John Powell have proved you can incorporate some of the RCP sound but still compose music that has personality and pushes the boundaries of film music in a different direction.

Giacchino not memorable? Come on.

And he can write for big orchestra and Williamsy if he wants, it's that it is not his personal style. He did some of that on his youth, but he has his own ovice now.

Film music was already a greater artform, and definately, implementing comercial RCPish sounds to it only adds to its detriment.Yeah it will be more popular, but considering it art is over the top.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are collaborative scores that weren't Remote Control ones:

Air Force One - Jerry Goldsmith and Joel McNeely

Star Trek VIII - First Contact - Jerry Goldsmith and Joel Goldsmith

Jack the Giant Killer - Paul Sawtell and Bert Shefter

Antz, Chicken Run, Shrek - Harry Gregson-Williams & John Powell (technically... half Remote Control? Or something?)

^ Not such bad scores, I think.

John Williams and the Chiftains in "Far and Away"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Williams and the Chiftains in "Far and Away"

Did they collaborate on the composing as well? I always figured that The Chieftains mainly performed John Williams' music on that one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

John Williams and the Chiftains in "Far and Away"

Did they collaborate on the composing as well? I always figured that The Chieftains mainly performed John Williams' music on that one.

The latter of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, how about letting John Williams pick who gets the reigns after Episode 7 (since he is 81 years old)? That seems to be the most logical choice, and then there can be perhaps a collaboration with Giacchino with someone else, if Williams picks someone else. Giacchino alone CANNOT do Star Wars justice; it's simply impossible to top Williams's influence on great themes in movie history. There must be a great collaboration of minds to continue the great writing of Williams and do that era of movie music justice, otherwise we will end up with Star Wars movies with the same dumbed down junk with the likes of Hans Zimmer in recent years with synthesizer "background music". This movie series will NEVER be merely background music. It tells a story with the SYMPHONIC music alone.

In order to do Williams justice, a meeting of the minds must occur, but only with the approval of Williams himself as to who will take up the reigns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don Davis did a very serviceable job on JP III. It wasn't Williams, but it certainly sounded close enough for the average moviegoer, and there's actually some very decent material in there for fans of traditional orchestral scoring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey guys, how about letting John Williams pick who gets the reigns after Episode 7 (since he is 81 years old)? That seems to be the most logical choice, and then there can be perhaps a collaboration with Giacchino with someone else, if Williams picks someone else. Giacchino alone CANNOT do Star Wars justice; it's simply impossible to top Williams's influence on great themes in movie history. There must be a great collaboration of minds to continue the great writing of Williams and do that era of movie music justice, otherwise we will end up with Star Wars movies with the same dumbed down junk with the likes of Hans Zimmer in recent years with synthesizer "background music". This movie series will NEVER be merely background music. It tells a story with the SYMPHONIC music alone.

In order to do Williams justice, a meeting of the minds must occur, but only with the approval of Williams himself as to who will take up the reigns.

No one chooses anything that happens on a film except for the people paying for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.