Best Score Oscar Poll 2013: who WILL win vs. who SHOULD win

[Ludwig 1,120]

With less than a week before the Oscars, I thought the time is ripe for a poll. But here, you don't have to decide between what you think WILL win and what you think SHOULD win.

Have your say...

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Lincoln should win.

And I think Lincoln will win. 75% chance.

[indy4 155]

Lincoln should win. I think Life of Pi will win, but I also think this is JW's best chance since SPR.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Life Of Pi will win.

Anna Karenina should win.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I think Newman's score is a deserving score.

Last year the three best scores lost, War Horse, Hugo, and TinTin to a less than deserving score but the flavor of the month.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

If Lincoln loses, I will be content if it's to Newman's Skyfall.

[Ollie 1,059]

I wont.

Thomas Newman has written much better and much more deserving of an Oscar music.

[KK 3,307]

Indeed. And both Life of Pi and Anna Karenina are more deserving of the Oscar than Skyfall.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I wont.

Thomas Newman has written much better and much more deserving of an Oscar music.

perhaps but in this case it's those within this year. It's more appealing to me than the Life of Pi score, I can't speak to Anna Karenina or Argo.

[King Mark 3,631]

Always think John Williams SHOULD win

Life of Pi will win. May as well not watch it's exactly what's going to happen

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Life of Pi is too vanilla. It doesn't have a clear and powerful style to my ears. Not "artsy" enough.

[KK 3,307]

Life of Pi succeeds for me because of Danna's very intelligent use of varying ethnic colours. The man knows what he's doing in that field.

I recall Danna mentioning on the composers round-table that he and Lee originally planned a much more challenging approach for the music but didn't find it synching with the film too well. So they went for a simpler emotional core, and hey, it worked!

[Matt C 453]

I don't think Lincoln will win Best Score, nor should it. I think it's either going to Argo or Life of Pi.

[indy4 155]

Since it's looking like Lincoln will lose most of the major awards except Day Lewis and directing Spielberg, maybe JW will get hte consolation prize.

[filmmusic 1,826]

I think Life of Pi will win, (academy is impressed by the exotic factor usually), but also I think Anna Karenina should win..

(edit: oh, just saw that I agree with Koray )

[crocodile 8,008]

I think Life of Pi will win.

And it probably should as well.

Karol

[Jay 37,353]

Will win: Life of Pi

Should win: Lincoln

Should have been nominated: John Carter

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Should have been nominated: John Carter

+1

[Ollie 1,059]

Yep, been saying that quite a bit myself.

[mrbellamy 6,286]

Life Of Pi will win.

Anna Karenina should win.

Same.

[publicist 4,643]

I'd like Newman to win...just not for a noisy action score (i'd rather hand it to him for BEST EXOTIC MARIGOLD HOTEL).

Williams has got enough Oscars and LINCOLN is hardly more than a round-up of the usual americana suspects (refined as they may be). ANNA KARENINA fits the bill, but LIFE OF PI is the much more sprawling story. Desplat doesn't really belong in the nominations this time.

Conclusion: it's a fair but rather boring selection with SKYFALL as the only wild card.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I've seen Skyfall, Lincoln and Life of Pi, and Skyfall's score made the biggest impact to me - I'm rooting for that.

Plus, whether or not it's for this score, Newman is way overdue for 'official' recognition.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Why does the board always show this thread as having unread posts but every time I click on it, I just see Rich's?

I never mentioned this but it's been happening for awhile now with certain threads.

[KK 3,307]

I believe its with the polls. When people vote but refrain from commenting, it's still seen as "unread". Or at least that's my guess.

[chinaismine 64]

Here's the reasoning that one genius academy member used when voting :

“Life of Pi is an absolutely perfect score. [Lincoln composer] John Williams has enough f---ing Oscars, and I really feel that the score was a weak part of Lincoln and just self-plagiarism for Williams. Thomas Newman should have won the Oscar a couple of times, but I just didn’t see anything particularly new or interesting in the music of Skyfall.”

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/oscar-voters-brutally-honest-ballot-422546

[Ludwig 1,120]

My vote is for Life of Pi both for "should win" and "will win". Don't get me wrong - I thought JW's job on Lincoln was absolutely first-rate, but it wasn't the kind of film that gave much space for the music. And I think that should be part of the award since film is a collaborative art. Hence my vote for Pi.

[mrbellamy 6,286]

The use of "Tsimtsum" under the last few minutes of the shipwreck is one of the best, most moving music-to-film moments I had in a cinema last year. Pi calling out into the darkness, through the raging wind and water, with Danna's strings/chorus underneath. Burned in my brain.

[Richard Penna 3,686]

I don't remember that moment at all - strange.

Quote from that ballot linked above:

I’m not gonna vote for Lincoln for best picture, but I have a lot of personal respect for Steven Spielberg and Kathleen Kennedy and I want to help the film, so when I can throw it a vote, like here, I will.”

No, no, no, no, no!

No token voting!

And...

voting for Spielberg despite...

I don’t feel is the best-directed film of the year -- there’s nothing innovative about it

I don't take these awards seriously anyway, but here's living proof that the best does not win, by anyone's standards.

[publicist 4,643]

It's awfully hard to make an exact science out of something as frivolous as the film business. But there's a big consolation for the losers: there's only a handful of winners (films at least) with a lasting impact...almost all of today's most-revered movies, be it Hitchcock, Leone, Hawks etc. etc. were not even nominated in their respective years.

[Incanus 5,714]

Life of Pi will win the statuette.

Lincoln should win.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

There's an interesting article in the Hollywood Reporter. Apparently, they got an anonymous director and Academy member to go over his Oscar ballot with them. It makes for a fun read, if for anything trying to figure out which director this is.

Anyway, here's the article and here's what he has to say about Best Score. It's not very complimentary towards Williams:

BEST ORIGINAL SCORE

“Life of Pi is an absolutely perfect score. [Lincoln composer] John Williams has enough f---ing Oscars, and I really feel that the score was a weak part of Lincoln and just self-plagiarism for Williams. Thomas Newman should have won the Oscar a couple of times, but I just didn’t see anything particularly new or interesting in the music of Skyfall.”

Vote: Life of Pi

[Richard Penna 3,686]

That was just posted above.

He's only uncomplimentary in the correct sense that Williams has lots of oscars - how much more recognition do you want?

I like Life of Pi less because the ethnic parts don't do anything for me.

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

That was just posted above.

He's only uncomplimentary in the correct sense that Williams has lots of oscars - how much more recognition do you want?

I like Life of Pi less because the ethnic parts don't do anything for me.

Um...did you read the whole thing? You don't consider this to be "uncomplimentary": "I really feel that the score was a weak part of Lincoln and just self-plagiarism for Williams."

[Richard Penna 3,686]

True that's not complimentary, but why should JW be guaranteed compliments?

[Nick1Ø66 4,714]

True that's not complimentary, but why should JW be guaranteed compliments?

I'm not sure anyone ever said he should.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

There's an interesting article in the Hollywood Reporter. Apparently, they got an anonymous director and Academy member to go over his Oscar ballot with them. It makes for a fun read, if for anything trying to figure out which director this is.

Anyway, here's the article and here's what he has to say about Best Score. It's not very complimentary towards Williams:

BEST ORIGINAL SCORE

“Life of Pi is an absolutely perfect score. [Lincoln composer] John Williams has enough f---ing Oscars, and I really feel that the score was a weak part of Lincoln and just self-plagiarism for Williams. Thomas Newman should have won the Oscar a couple of times, but I just didn’t see anything particularly new or interesting in the music of Skyfall.”

Vote: Life of Pi

Yes, I do need an anonymous alcoholic director's opinion to make my own. And it's not fun read. Sad it is.

[indy4 155]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

The structure of the scores are totally different, especially as presented on CD. Granted the style of the scores are pretty similar, but I would attribute that to the "Williams sound."

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/argo_2012/news/1926890/rts_oscar_picks_2013/

The Rotten Tomatoes staff predicted Lincoln to be the winner of best score.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

The structure of the scores are totally different, especially as presented on CD. Granted the style of the scores are pretty similar, but I would attribute that to the "Williams sound."

But the Oscars don't care about CD presentation, they evaluate film presentation.

Also, the structure is not really relevant when the style of the scores are very similar. I listen to scores mainly for their sound and style, and not really their structure. And I don't think the Academy goes that deep into "structure" either. When something sounds similar, it sounds similar, end of story.

That's most likely also one of the main reasons why An Unexpected Journey wasn't nominated. They just don't care about structural and thematic connections when the whole score as presented in the film sounds like a LotR highlight reel.

[indy4 155]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

The structure of the scores are totally different, especially as presented on CD. Granted the style of the scores are pretty similar, but I would attribute that to the "Williams sound."

But the Oscars don't care about CD presentation, they evaluate film presentation.

Also, the structure is not really relevant when the style of the scores are very similar. I listen to scores mainly for their sound and style, and not really their structure. And I don't think the Academy goes that deep into "structure" either. When something sounds similar, it sounds similar, end of story.

That's most likely also one of the main reasons why An Unexpected Journey wasn't nominated. They just don't care about structural and thematic connections when the whole score as presented in the film sounds like a LotR highlight reel.

Well then YOU and the Academy don't care about structure. That doesn't make your original statement true.

[Ludwig 1,120]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

The structure of the scores are totally different, especially as presented on CD. Granted the style of the scores are pretty similar, but I would attribute that to the "Williams sound."

But the Oscars don't care about CD presentation, they evaluate film presentation.

Also, the structure is not really relevant when the style of the scores are very similar. I listen to scores mainly for their sound and style, and not really their structure. And I don't think the Academy goes that deep into "structure" either. When something sounds similar, it sounds similar, end of story.

That's most likely also one of the main reasons why An Unexpected Journey wasn't nominated. They just don't care about structural and thematic connections when the whole score as presented in the film sounds like a LotR highlight reel.

Well then YOU and the Academy don't care about structure. That doesn't make your original statement true.

What exactly are we talking about with "structure"? To me, that means the choice of harmony, melody, and rhythm, but that amounts to style, doesn't it?

Indy, you said the "style" of Lincoln and War Horse are similar, but the "structure" is entirely different? Could you clarify? Just wondering...

[gkgyver 1,645]

Me as well, actually, I thought he meant themes and such. I don't understand, Indy, why my original statement, that would be that Lincoln sounds very similar to War Horse I guess, should be wrong.

The themes may be different, even though some thematic similarities are also there, the sound is still same-y. Williams exchanged the flutes for some trumpet solos, but does that make so much of a difference?

Talking about structure, the trailer theme from War Horse appears slightly altered in Lincoln, and both have major piano themes.

In the end, I find way more similarities between the two than differences, even though there obviously are some, since they are two different films.

[publicist 4,643]

If i would have the vote, i wouldn't give LINCOLN the score oscar. It is hardly in the movie - and when it is, it makes it even more conventional, leaving most of the more nuanced moments to the album release. And that's a fact that doesn't even take the presumed similarities into account.

Fan choices are good and dandy, but they might be as damaging and illogical as those of ignorant academy voters.

[indy4 155]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

The structure of the scores are totally different, especially as presented on CD. Granted the style of the scores are pretty similar, but I would attribute that to the "Williams sound."

But the Oscars don't care about CD presentation, they evaluate film presentation.

Also, the structure is not really relevant when the style of the scores are very similar. I listen to scores mainly for their sound and style, and not really their structure. And I don't think the Academy goes that deep into "structure" either. When something sounds similar, it sounds similar, end of story.

That's most likely also one of the main reasons why An Unexpected Journey wasn't nominated. They just don't care about structural and thematic connections when the whole score as presented in the film sounds like a LotR highlight reel.

Well then YOU and the Academy don't care about structure. That doesn't make your original statement true.

What exactly are we talking about with "structure"? To me, that means the choice of harmony, melody, and rhythm, but that amounts to style, doesn't it?

Indy, you said the "style" of Lincoln and War Horse are similar, but the "structure" is entirely different? Could you clarify? Just wondering...

I mean more big picture stuff, like how the different themes and ideas interact with each other. The way I see it, War Horse can be split into 3 distinct sections (pre-war, war, post-war), whereas the bulk of Lincoln is more consistent, but it is framed between the People's House theme that doesn't appear in the rest of the score. Also, War Horse was more about development of themes, whereas Lincoln was more about derivation; in the former you have new themes (that are based on old ones) replace the old ones, whereas in Lincoln you have competing themes, many of which are linked, all interacting with each other at once (this is less true in the film since "Malice" doesn't appear until the end). To me the scores tell a different story in a very different way. WH is about contrasting two ideas and showing how one impacts the other, both negatively and positively. Lincoln is about how various related-aspects interact with each other to achieve a goal, and how those interactions are viewed by history.

I'll admit I was probably exagerrating a little when I said the structures are "totally" different, as each score has a little of both approaches and many of the most important standard JW structural decisions are heard in both. I just disagree with the claim that War Horse served as a "template" for Lincoln, even if there are some very clear similarities. I'll also admit that the motif for war is probably an instance of self-plagarism.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Whether War Horse was a template for Lincoln is debatable, but it sure sounds like it was. You can also clearly hear that one was almost immediately written after the other. And while that was true in earlier Williams year, it was never as apparent as in these two scores.

I understand what you mean when you talk about the structural differences, but really, and don't behead me for this, who on earth, besides a Williams fan, would really notice or care about that? I like War Horse and Lincoln for similar reasons, but if War Horse didn't win the Oscar, Lincoln shouldn't as well.

[indy4 155]

Whether War Horse was a template for Lincoln is debatable, but it sure sounds like it was. You can also clearly hear that one was almost immediately written after the other. And while that was true in earlier Williams year, it was never as apparent as in these two scores.

I understand what you mean when you talk about the structural differences, but really, and don't behead me for this, who on earth, besides a Williams fan, would really notice or care about that? I like War Horse and Lincoln for similar reasons, but if War Horse didn't win the Oscar, Lincoln shouldn't as well.

I'm not talking about Oscar-worthiness, nor am I talking about who I think will win the Oscar. I'm talking about the claim that Lincoln is a rehashed War Horse. The only other nominated score I've heard is Life of Pi, and that was in the film itself, so I'm not qualified to say who should win the Oscar, only who I want to win.

[Ludwig 1,120]

I don't want to get heat, but he's correct in the sense that Lincoln has War Horse as a template. It's really obvious. And it has nothing to do with the Williams "sound".

The structure of the scores are totally different, especially as presented on CD. Granted the style of the scores are pretty similar, but I would attribute that to the "Williams sound."

But the Oscars don't care about CD presentation, they evaluate film presentation.

Also, the structure is not really relevant when the style of the scores are very similar. I listen to scores mainly for their sound and style, and not really their structure. And I don't think the Academy goes that deep into "structure" either. When something sounds similar, it sounds similar, end of story.

That's most likely also one of the main reasons why An Unexpected Journey wasn't nominated. They just don't care about structural and thematic connections when the whole score as presented in the film sounds like a LotR highlight reel.

Well then YOU and the Academy don't care about structure. That doesn't make your original statement true.

What exactly are we talking about with "structure"? To me, that means the choice of harmony, melody, and rhythm, but that amounts to style, doesn't it?

Indy, you said the "style" of Lincoln and War Horse are similar, but the "structure" is entirely different? Could you clarify? Just wondering...

I mean more big picture stuff, like how the different themes and ideas interact with each other. The way I see it, War Horse can be split into 3 distinct sections (pre-war, war, post-war), whereas the bulk of Lincoln is more consistent, but it is framed between the People's House theme that doesn't appear in the rest of the score. Also, War Horse was more about development of themes, whereas Lincoln was more about derivation; in the former you have new themes (that are based on old ones) replace the old ones, whereas in Lincoln you have competing themes, many of which are linked, all interacting with each other at once (this is less true in the film since "Malice" doesn't appear until the end). To me the scores tell a different story in a very different way. WH is about contrasting two ideas and showing how one impacts the other, both negatively and positively. Lincoln is about how various related-aspects interact with each other to achieve a goal, and how those interactions are viewed by history.

I'll admit I was probably exagerrating a little when I said the structures are "totally" different, as each score has a little of both approaches and many of the most important standard JW structural decisions are heard in both. I just disagree with the claim that War Horse served as a "template" for Lincoln, even if there are some very clear similarities. I'll also admit that the motif for war is probably an instance of self-plagarism.

Very cool. I see what you mean now. "Structure" is just one of those loaded terms in music, so it's sometimes hard to know exactly what people mean. Thanks for clarifying!

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I think John should win. Surprise.

Life of Pee will win cause it's exotic enough for the clowns in the Academy.

I do not mind if John will lose, not so many years ago I used to upset when he lost, Memoirs and ESB comes to mind.

Now I think it is the number of nominations which really matters. I mean, from the dozens of candidates, among the top 5 scores!

48 times!!!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

"Life Of Pee?"

Just because something wins over JW doesn't automatically mean it's shit, or rather piss in this case. These are all good/great scores.