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I don't really find anything particularly puzzling about the Lydia loose ends. She's obviously going to come back to haunt Walter, probably by force.

She's a ruthlessly greedy woman who won't accept that the best cook in the world simply wants to quit the business.

Hank might yet turn out to be the least of Walter's worries.

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ADMIN NOTE: Spoilers if you haven't seen through Season 5, episode 8! For the fans!

I like this

I'm glad the episode ended where it did. It maintained the idea of Jesse not speaking all episode, and doesn't rush their confrontation. We know Jesse will be very uneasy to see this man who keeps pummeling him every chance he gets, though Hank has to remain dignified. Or Jesse might be ready to end his suffering and ask Hank how his wife's car crash was.

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Never been a fan of The Wire. I found it hard to follow, with combining intricate plots and strong accents, and I lost patience after season 3. I understand David Simon was going for realism, but his approach came off more to me as preachy against traditional formats.

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The only problem I had with this episode was needing to recall the poisoning incident last season.

I just read up again on the circumstances around it and it makes sense, but I wonder how many viewers will remember that far back.

But otherwise, good episode. The interruptions from the server were magnificently timed :lol:

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Yeah, it was a great episode with some fantastic writing as usual.

But I was confused by the ending (maybe because i don't remember everything accurately). Why was Jesse pissed about the cigarette? Wasn't it determined that Brock (the kid) wasn't poisoned by ricin, but by some plant which Walt used? So how exactly did Jesse come to the conclusion that Walt poisoned Brock? And how exactly did Jesse find out that the ricin picked off him by Huell?

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That's pretty much my confusion too.

From what more I've read, last season Walt wanted to leave evidence that he poisoned Brock, but then convince Jesse that Gus was actually responsible and trying to drive them apart, prompting Jesse to go after Gus in revenge.

So I guess he was meant to work out the cigarette thing (see my next point) before, but instead he incorrectly figured it fell out or something (remember him blaming himself?). So, nothing points to Walt, and it can be blamed squarely on Gus.

Fast forward to present: He put the weed in his pocket in Saul's office, and now it's gone, he realises the henchman took it. Then he sees his cigarettes and remembers that his ricin thing disappeared just after he visited Saul, and determines the only reason Saul would do that (or even know about it) is if Walt told him to - and therefore Walt got the ricin without him knowing as a possible poison (although he turned out to use something else), and he also remembers Walt was in a perfect position to plant it when they were looking for it at Jesse's place.

It's certainly a plot with holes, and some leaps of logic that I'm not sure about.

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The screen writers guild of America should have held off a bit longer before making their list. Probably would have finished higher than The Wire ;)

The Wire had low ratings and no awards - it is still a very obscure show. Breaking Bad is a huge success. It is a slightly different situation.

And no, Breaking Bad isn't even close, quality-wise. You see, for all its quirks and excellent execution is still a thriller entertainment, a pretty straighforward and, as it turned out, even a marketable thing. It doesn't really aim that high or risk a whole lot. It's like Spielberg back in his prime. But Spielberg isn't Kubrick. It's a crap analogy, I know.

Yeah, it was. Crap reply in general tho tbh, full of "my personal opinion is facts" blah blah blergh.

Anyway just watched epi 10.

@ video tape scene:

dSbRBAO.jpg

I was sadly really disappointed by the ricin Hule shakedown subplot (which I remembered well and saw it coming the moment Jessie squeezed passed him in the doorway to Saul's office). I immediately recalled the season opener which shown Walter returning to his abandoned home to retrieve the ricin from behind the wall socket. That Jessie would make such HUGE leaps in logic and memory in the moment he realised his dope had been lifted is just for me really unbelievable and a really huge stretch.

What a shame; up until now this season had been PERFECT.

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I found it completely believable.

Jesse had already had suspicions about Walt and Brock last season, but it was only the found Ricin cig in the Roomba that quelled his concerns. Once Huell pickpocketed him again, Jesse put two and two together and realized what Walt had done. Jesse is far more intelligent than he's given credit for, and to me he just had a great moment of clarity where everything came together perfectly in his mind. Now, if he puts together two and two about the conversation that Walt had about being sorry about what happened to Jane, things will really hit the fan.

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Right. The ending was a bummer. Thanks for the explanation Richard, but it's still not solid enough for me. Too big of a leap. Oh well, I guess everything couldn't be perfect.

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Right. The ending was a bummer. Thanks for the explanation Richard, but it's still not solid enough for me. Too big of a leap. Oh well, I guess everything couldn't be perfect.

Not solid enough for me either, but it's the best explanation I can come up with.

I'd rather (as has been suggested already) that Walt had somehow let slip about Jane's death. That's a storyline that not only does everyone remember well, but really does give Jesse a reason to be uber-pissed.

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Right. The ending was a bummer. Thanks for the explanation Richard, but it's still not solid enough for me. Too big of a leap. Oh well, I guess everything couldn't be perfect.

Not solid enough for me either, but it's the best explanation I can come up with.

Well, that IS the explanation. That's exactly what happened.

What makes it even more unconvincing is that it was always really just an agreement between the fans and Gilligan that Hule took the ricin cigarette from Jessie way back then - because it was never actually explained and was even rather ambiguous how he came to lose it, like a mystery. Obviously the writer/s have opted to link it in here, but Jessie saw the cigarette with his own eyes - hoovered up by his little machine. His mind was put to rest on the matter, fully. The boy lived. His conscious clear.

Gilligan is relying purely on us, the audience, being privy to the truth of what really happened - something which Jessie would no longer even think about all these months later. I mean, why would he?

It's too great a leap of logic and a bit bullshit tbh.

Just sayin' what I see.

It's just not a game-changer, that's all I'm saying. Clever characterization and plotting, nice look. Entertaining. But there's nothing daring in terms of how it pushes the medium. You still get "previously on..." montages, characters delivering exposition, in case you overheat your brain. Nothing new to the format, not in the way both Twin Peaks and The Wire experimented with it..

Karol

Oh just shut up. Have you heard yourself?

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For some reason you're insistent on being The Wire Defence Squad's chief spokesman in the Breaking Bad thread when nobody here is criticising it or casting doubt on its greatness. Yet you must create the division, put us right on the matter all the same. You sound like a fanboy.

I mean, how DARE someone suggest that BB might be even in the same universe as it! Yawn.

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Look dude, I put a smilie wink on the end of my Wire post earlier today. It was a jestful remark.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't have bothered had I known it'd be subjected to your sermon on why The Wire shalt not be usurped by this heathen entertainment about drugs n shit.

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Drugs n shit they may share, but as far as I'm aware The Wire isn't also a meditation on the mid-life crisis and the obsession with premature balding amongst middle-aged men and the perceived inadequacies associated with it. With the amount of chrome domes on display it may as well be called Balding Bad!

You are of course free to lecture on the virtues of The Wire over Breaking Bad, so don't come over all Ooo, I'll watch what I say in the future then on my account.

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That's pretty much my confusion too.

From what more I've read, last season Walt wanted to leave evidence that he poisoned Brock, but then convince Jesse that Gus was actually responsible and trying to drive them apart, prompting Jesse to go after Gus in revenge.

So I guess he was meant to work out the cigarette thing (see my next point) before, but instead he incorrectly figured it fell out or something (remember him blaming himself?). So, nothing points to Walt, and it can be blamed squarely on Gus.

In the season 4 episode "End Times" Jesse finds out Brock had been poisoned after not being able to find his ricin cigarette. He immediately assumes that Walt had Saul lift the cigarette from him so he could poison the boy and nearly kills Walt over it. Walt manages to convince him that it was Gus who took the cigarette and poisoned Brock. After Gus is killed Jesse finds out that Brock was poisoned by the lily of the valley plant and not ricin, which discriminates Gus. Unbeknownst to him, Walt actually did have Saul take the cigarette from Jesse and poison Brock, though not with ricin. In the latest episode, once Jesse notices that Huell pick-pocketed his weed he puts two and two together and realizes it wasn't the first time Huell had done this and that he was right about the missing cigarette the first time. It amounted to Jesse understanding that his initial assumption about the situation was true.

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Except Jesse knew Brock wasn't poisoned by ricin, he was poisoned by the lily of the valley. So Jesse would still not have any reason of suspecting Walt's involvement. In fact, in reality, he wouldn't have connected this incident with that at all because as far as he knew, he just lost the cigarette. It's still pretty far-fetched.

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MythBusters also busted the hydrofluoric acid that eats bodies and bathtubs and bicycles rather conveniently.

The blue meth is a plot device to allow the audience to always know what is shown onscreen, as opposed to any number of white or clear substances.

Jesse is likely not thinking clearly, and the fact that Saul's goon keeps going into his pocket creates enough reasonable doubt for him to suspect Walt's involved somehow. Ricin, lilly, that's irrelevant. He already knows Walt keeps lying to him.

I get the dissatisfaction with the sloppy handling of the cigarette pilfering. It's not shown well onscreen, and what the audience doesn't see, they find difficult to accept. That's why I don't like the idea that Jesse gets the gas can from his trunk because we didn't see him put it in there. Or fill it with gas. That's sloppy writing.

But seriously, are Jr. and Holly in the house when Jesse goes gas happy?

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That's pretty much my confusion too.

From what more I've read, last season Walt wanted to leave evidence that he poisoned Brock, but then convince Jesse that Gus was actually responsible and trying to drive them apart, prompting Jesse to go after Gus in revenge.

So I guess he was meant to work out the cigarette thing (see my next point) before, but instead he incorrectly figured it fell out or something (remember him blaming himself?). So, nothing points to Walt, and it can be blamed squarely on Gus.

In the season 4 episode "End Times" Jesse finds out Brock had been poisoned after not being able to find his ricin cigarette. He immediately assumes that Walt had Saul lift the cigarette from him so he could poison the boy and nearly kills Walt over it. Walt manages to convince him that it was Gus who took the cigarette and poisoned Brock. After Gus is killed Jesse finds out that Brock was poisoned by the lily of the valley plant and not ricin, which discriminates Gus. Unbeknownst to him, Walt actually did have Saul take the cigarette from Jesse and poison Brock, though not with ricin. In the latest episode, once Jesse notices that Huell pick-pocketed his weed he puts two and two together and realizes it wasn't the first time Huell had done this and that he was right about the missing cigarette the first time. It amounted to Jesse understanding that his initial assumption about the situation was true.

That's all you need. At this point Jesse is clearly depressed and doesn't believe anything. He suspects Walt manipulated him, and in context of everything that happened earlier in the episode (his scenes with Hank and Walt) it all makes perfect sense.

Karol

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If the ciggy never turned up inside the little hoover thingy that would be plausible - for Jessie to still be haunted by that episode in his life. But he saw it there with his own eyes. His mind was put at ease and he moved on (so much so he apparently doesn't even see Brock and his mother anymore).

No, now Jessie is disturbed 24/7 by the killing of the kid after the train robbery. That's what rules his thoughts. An incredibly tangible vision which dominates everything else.

This new twist, this leap of logic feels wholly implausible to me. They could have thought up something much more satisfying than this BS.

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Yes, but it had also been implied Jesse doesn't trust Walt anymore and he's just looking for proof. That's how I see it, and it so happens he gets one through wild guess. As to his loss of temper, it's been brewing for quite some time.

Aside from that, I like your middle age crisis interpretation of the show, Quint - very interesting and quite spot on.

My argument with you last night had more to do with a television format and how its presented to a viewer - that's how I understand milestone. But, it's not a criticism of Breaking Bad per se. It's on course right now to get one of the strongest final seasons of any show, ever. Hope it keeps the energy up!

Karol

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Do you think he'll also get to find out about Jane's death? How Walt just stood there and let her die. I do hope if they bring this up, it will be in a better way than the cigarrete's thingy.

Also, can't wait for the confrontation between Jesse and Junior. That's how I imagine the next scene after the gas spilling is gonna be, because the house is still fine in the flash-forwards.

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Back in Gus' lab, in Season 3, he had a conversation where he kept saying he was sorry for what happened. Jesse probably will make a connection and call him out on it at their next confrontation I'd imagine.

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I don't mean he'll do it directly. More of a stream of conscience rant angled towards Walt about what else he lied to him about.

I think its quite possible that Jesse never finds out the truth, and in a way never really should. If he were, he would most certainly strangle Walt or try his best to kill him, but would likely not succeed. As you sort of mentioned, there's no proof that Walt was there and no way of Jesse knowing unless Walt tells him. I'd hate for Jane to be the reason that Walt has to go and hide and doesn't really seem like a big enough reason, though I'd probably prefer it to Todd and Lydia whom I never warmed to or considered anything but amateur.

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Except Jesse knew Brock wasn't poisoned by ricin, he was poisoned by the lily of the valley. So Jesse would still not have any reason of suspecting Walt's involvement. In fact, in reality, he wouldn't have connected this incident with that at all because as far as he knew, he just lost the cigarette. It's still pretty far-fetched.

Again, look back at "End Times" for reference. Jesse initially assumes that Walt had Saul lift the cigarette to poison Brock. He nearly shoots him in the head over it. It's true that he has no actual proof that Walt poisoned the boy given that it wasn't ricin, but by this time Jesse has built up deep resentment towards Walt. He assumes again that his initial feeling was right and it enrages him. If nothing else, Saul essentially admits to all of it when Jesse has the gun on him.

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