Hans Zimmer's Man Of Steel

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Lol @ people saying they can't differentiate the drum circle from normal percussion. Instantly noticeable in "Oil Rig."

You're right, the percussion is more prominent in detail and louder.

But you see, that's not what many of us are picking on. It's the fact that he does nothing with the drum circle that he hasn't done with his synth samples in the last two decades! At least with the Bane chant in TDKR, it's a new rhythmic meter in his oeuvre. Here, we've heard the same thing a million times, it's just now we have 12 drummers playing it!

So your problem is not with instrumentation it's with composition. You just said it was more prominent in detail and louder, thus meaning he did something different with it.

[KK 3,307]

Of course it's a matter of composition. Him doing something "different" with it was in the method of recording, but ultimately the effect doesn't add much in the bigger picture. Give a circle of 15 drummers to someone like Brian Tyler, and you'll probably get some really rowdy, highly entertaining percussion material.

But here Zimmer presents a wasted opportunity. Why go forth with this "experiment". You made the percussion a little bit louder. Fantastic, how does that make your score stand apart from others in your career? It doesn't.

@ Psycho Pianist

You got something confused. Reviewers don't hate the music because they hate the composer, that's bullshit. They question the composer because they hate the music. Big difference. Clemmensen doesn't hate Zimmer, he just likes to point towards the insane comments Zimmer makes about his music. Which is his good right and duty as a reviewer.

His duty as a reviewer is also to try and understand the timbre and style that the composer has gone for, rather than to dismiss it because it might sound texturally similar to some of his previous scores. John Williams scores are always orchestral, in the same way that MoS, TDK, TDK:R, Inception etc have all been heavily synth based and influenced. I don't feel that the reviewers ever empathise with that, nor even attempt to appreciate the emotion and mood conveyed by that particular style.

You, along with many others, don't seem to realize how open minded Clemmenson is. It's not that he hates synths (he's given five-star ratings to synth-driven scores), but he criticizes how Zimmer uses them, which is quite valid. He points to Zimmer's current inability to properly address what's on screen or reflect something original in terms of the film onto the music appropriately. It's not about whether the score is "orchestral" or not, or whether its by Zimmer or not. Has nothing to do with that...and I don't know why people can't see that.

Here's one for comparison: In filmtracks.com, Hans Zimmer has one 5 star review. Elmer Bernstein has none.

He hasn't reviewed many Bernstein scores. Filmtracks usually only does modern soundtrack reviews.

[tannhauser 101]

I guess the drum circle will be fully appreciated in theatres as opposed to the stereo mixdown were hearing.

Im enjoying the score a lot, particularly tracks like "If you love these people", "Kryptons last" and "goodbye my son". I dont get the zimmer hatred on this board. If you dont like his music dont listen to it! If youre a zimmer fan, youll probably enjoy this score, otherwise listen to something else you do enjoy!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Of course it's a matter of composition. Him doing something "different" with it was in the method of recording, but ultimately the effect doesn't add much in the bigger picture. Give a circle of 15 drummers to someone like Brian Tyler, and you'll probably get some really rowdy, highly entertaining percussion material.

But here Zimmer presents a wasted opportunity. Why go forth with this "experiment". You made the percussion a little bit louder. Fantastic, how does that make your score stand apart from others in your career? It doesn't.

If you want to talk derivative then definitely mention Tyler.

There's a distinct line between sound and instrumentation versus composition. The drum circle adds a different dimension to the percussion regardless of what they're performing. If you want to talk about Zimmer being derivative compositionally, great, I'm all for that. But in terms of this ensemble that he put together, there is a sonic difference, and it's not the source of Man Of Steel's faults as a score.

[KK 3,307]

I agree about Tyler being derivative by the way (I'm not a fan), but he'd probably have something fun written for such a section.

[publicist 4,643]

Even after having it run through Spotify at work thrice, i stand by my first impression that the 28-minute-sketchbook is wholly representative of the whole score in a K2-suite kind of way. The synth aesthetic perfectly complements the broad hymnal ideas. It's interesting that Zimmer goes back to his LION KING/BROKEN ARROW/PACIFIC HEIGHTS style for this. Why?

The rest of the underscore suffers from muddy incorporation of those ideas in the usual Zimmer blockbuster wall of sound, with the occasional touching violin lament breaking through amidst all the aggressively simple drum samples (i'm sure they ran even their 12 world's best drummers through a computer). I find it easier to digest than the dire BATMAN scores but it could have been a bit more artful especially with Hans' usual touting of the long gestation process.

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

I guess the drum circle will be fully appreciated in theatres as opposed to the stereo mixdown were hearing.

Nope. According to this, we're basically hearing it in surround on the deluxe edition.

The deluxe soundtrack for Man of Steel was released today and features a new audio technology which creates a surround sound experience through regular headphones. It’s the first album to feature this new technology, called DTS Headphone:X.

http://music-mix.ew.com/2013/06/11/man-of-steel-hans-zimmer-soundtrack/

[tannhauser 101]

Yeah - i downloaded that, and im not convinced. Sounds like the stereo version with a bit of digital reverb added. Ill wait to hear this in the theatre.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Tannhauser said it, but yeah, that DTS Headphone mix is something extra you have to download. If you're listening to the CD straight up it's different.

If the app is to be believed, the DTS mix is really muffled but with more dynamic range in the percussion. However, this is probably entirely due to the fact that I'm listening on earbuds. The regular album mix sounds louder and clearer but flatter.

[Offline 29]

I'll just say this:

Overall, I'm still underwhelmed, same way I felt when I heard the samples. However, there are some moments that I found legitimately nice, others that I legitimately cringed at:

"Dna" - Loved the strings @ 49 Seconds.

"Goodbye My Son" - I honestly really loved this track and I think it will work beautifully in the film. The vocal work is great, and captures the moment I was looking for.

"If You Love These People" - Despite the fact that this score is obviously out of order, during the opening minute and a half or so, I almost expected this to be the cue for the Opening Credits, like flying through space with text and stuff. Which would be cool.

"Krypton's Last" - Love the brief violin solo.

"Terraforming" - CRINGE. The first 30 seconds. "MOMBASSA" ANYONE? Rest of it is alright I guess.

"This Is Clark Kent" - I really liked this one as well. Though I think I heard some synth I could've done without

"Flight" - I liked the small bit of variation he finally did on the "Main Theme" or the "Clark Theme" whichever it is

"What Are You Going To Do When You're Not Saving The World?" - Absurdly long title, but nice Extended Trailer music, that's about it.

"Man of Steel (Hans' Original Sketchbook)" - Same as what everyone has been saying, it's a suite that basically covers the entire score. I felt at times myself looking down at my iPod and saying "Man this is still going?" though.

"Earth" - Finally another good variation on the Clark Theme or whatever it is, referring to the Guitar, the synth that comes in at like 3:40 is nice, I'm not opposed to synth, but does not belong in this score. Get it out. It feels so out of place.

I'll admit, he did a bit more variation on the Main Theme (Im referring to the trailer music) then I expected him to, but the tracks I mentioned are literally the highest moments of the what I heard. There may have been one more that I was like "Oh, that's a nice cue" but other than that a WHOLE bunch of...Meh.

EDIT: Also, I know I heard Bane's Theme played on Drums, SOMEWHERE, I noticed it and it bothered me. So yeah.

[Jamesyboy 3]

Alright, on the drum topic:

I'm a drummer and have been playing for over 2/3's of life. I was actually a bit excited after reading about the pieces on the score and am a big fan of most the drummers that were listed as contributors/players. Jason Bonham, Josh Freese, Danny Carey, Jim Keltner, Matt Chamberlain, Vinnie Colaiuta to name a few. The amount experience and recordings just this small list of drummers I mentioned have is unmeasurable. Now, sonically, yes, you can tell by the way a snare cracks and properly tuned drum sounds that is not a typical "drum circle." BUT, with the amount of talent that was assembled for this, all these drummers were greatly under utilized by some basic patterns that a small group average drummers could have done in half an afternoon. Greatly disappointing and a massive waste of some of the best drumming talent in the industry.

On a larger scale, most film composers don't seem to write interesting drum/percussion parts. Most are just some simple half-note/quarter-note pounding. Now composers like Williams (those sections in the Chase through Coruscant are just brilliant), Giacchino and Brian Tyler (he plays the drums...quite well!) know how to keep their percussion sections moving and interesting.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

What about Powell? He's my favorite composer in terms of percussion.

[KK 3,307]

Indeed. I would have liked to hear what Powell what have done with that kind of "drummer's circle"!

Hans Zimmer Offers Glimpse of Creative Process

Zimmer used live orchestral sections? I could not tell at all from the music...

[tannhauser 101]

Some parts definitely sound live to my ears, for example the fantastic adagio in the second half of General Zod

[KK 3,307]

Even that sounds very processed and synthy, the horns there don't help.

[ComposerEthan 8]

Just finished the movie. Every time Clark's theme plays, its on the piano. Does General Zod have a theme? I didn't catch one (except for just blaring, antagonistic horns in some sections) and I didn't listen to "General Zod". Clark's piano theme and the Krypton motif thing on synth plays a LOT.

Lots of drums.

[Quintus 5,399]

When Hans said he procrastinated for months over this score, the shadow of Williams hanging over him, it was because he was trying in vain to conjure up an actual thematic score of his own. But after a while the realisation came that he just didn't have it in him, he couldn't muster anything of note up (lol I'm funny), so what did he do? He resorted to his reliable old fall back technique, the drums. But feeling too obvious, he plotted to this time give it a buzz word, a gimmicky name. And so he dressed it up as the Drum Circle and thus his sense of self originality (and worth) was restored and untarnished.

So that's why we have the drums. Creativity deficit.

It's just Hans and his ol faithful drums again.

[nightscape94 965]

He was just the wrong composer for this material. I'm not going to bash on Zimmer, but I agree that he's out of his league here. Superman is too grandiose, too full-blooded for this droning approach. Even if you take away the fact that he's indirectly competing with Williams, which in-and-of-itself is unfair, he couldn't even come up with a half decent musical signature for Superman just on his own terms.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Well, he could have tried some cowbells ...

[Incanus 5,713]

Well, he could have tried some cowbells ...

A cowbell circle you mean?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Well, he could have tried some cowbells ...

A cowbell circle you mean?

I just picture Zimmer with his recording equipment in the Swiss alps, surrounded by cows, yelling "get that D right, dammiiiiiiiit!"

[Incanus 5,713]

Going back to the roots, Europe. Going back to Nature.

Hans and his Cowbells. Sounds like a German schlager band.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Because you see, Clark Kent is, at his heart, a farmboy. So, I wanted to reflect that sound of grass, the sky, wind blowing through telephone wires.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yodeling ostinatos could be cool.

[Incanus 5,713]

"And in the Kansas horizon Clark could hear the distant call of cowbells, a moody harbinger of a life soon tragically changed. He knew it would be the death knell of his ordinary existence on this planet. Cowbells..."

[gkgyver 1,645]

The last word he spoke, "Cowbells ... cowbells ..."

[Quintus 5,399]

He was sent here by his father because of our capacity for cowbells.

[Incanus 5,713]

"You are my son Kal-El and your name rhymes with cowbell. It was all meant to be."

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

.

[Brónach 1,301]

I never thought I'd ever say this but I have found a better appreciation of the score by simply listening to Hans' Original Sketchbook only and seeing it as filler non-Supermany background music. Nice for writing.

It isn't, however, listenable all the way through. For example, the part at 22:00 is annoying. And it loses effect after two times.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

Was it already said that Hans received a letter from Johnny wishing him good luck? I didn't know about this, I just found out on this video...

The video itself is a little obnoxious but it's still very sweet

[Koray Savas 2,251]

That's because those people are obnoxious lol

[Matt C 452]

What about Powell? He's my favorite composer in terms of percussion.

I personally think he or Brian Tyler would've written something knockout using that drum circle. That percussive usage in "Misfire" from Iron Man 3 is amazing, if Zimmer had written something similar to that... oh man.

[Brónach 1,301]

That one is more listenable than Man of Steel.

[Offline 29]

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw people calling the theme in Man of Steel "Iconic".

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Clemmensen's review is up.

Wow. It didn't get the "FRISBEE" rating!

[chuck 154]

As anyone might expect, his desire not to step on the toes of the classic 1977 Williams score was a key concern.

Um, wasn't it 1978?

[Richard Penna 3,670]

Clemmensen's review is up.

Wow. It didn't get the "FRISBEE" rating!

At least we now have the full range of reviewer opinions. 1 star from Clemmenson, 5 from Kaya. Not difficult to see who's the fanboy there...

And hey, only four additional composers on this one!

That's because those people are obnoxious lol

That's not obnoxious, that's just ass-kissing.

A letter from Williams... seriously?

[Crimson Nagus 43]

If Williams tried to listen to this album, I don't think he would get through the first 2 tracks. He'd then email Zimmer and say "I guess you ran out of luck."

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I was going to buy this if I liked the movie, but since it's so bad there is no need for me to waste on this score.

I liked the piano bit and remember nothing else. Like the film it too is a misfire.

Clemmensen's review is up.

Wow. It didn't get the "FRISBEE" rating!

he gave it what it deserves.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Clemmensen's review is up.

Wow. It didn't get the "FRISBEE" rating!

At least we now have the full range of reviewer opinions. 1 star from Clemmenson, 5 from Kaya. Not difficult to see who's the fanboy there...

And hey, only four additional composers on this one!

Zimmer wrote everything aside from the cues with Junkie XL.

That's because those people are obnoxious lol

That's not obnoxious, that's just ass-kissing.

A letter from Williams... seriously?

Well yeah, ass kissing is obnoxious.

Elmer Bernstein wrote Zimmer a letter to congratulate him on Pearl Harbor. It's not like people talking to each other is a rare thing in Hollywood.

[filmmusic 1,823]

Elmer Bernstein wrote Zimmer a letter to congratulate him on Pearl Harbor. It's not like people talking to each other is a rare thing in Hollywood.

Although i haven't listened to Pear Harbor for years, I remember it was a quite good score!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It is.

[SF1_freeze 131]

He was just the wrong composer for this material. I'm not going to bash on Zimmer, but I agree that he's out of his league here. Superman is too grandiose, too full-blooded for this droning approach. Even if you take away the fact that he's indirectly competing with Williams, which in-and-of-itself is unfair, he couldn't even come up with a half decent musical signature for Superman just on his own terms.

How did he manage to create masterpieces like "The Lion King" or "Prince of Egypt", that's what i ask myself. He was able to do great stuff from time to time. Something must have happened to him 10-12 years ago that caused his loss of talent and creativity .

The Man of Steel score is disappointingly bad but i have not seen the movie yet. Maybe it works better in the film but after reading this thread i doubt it.

[TownerFan 4,983]

The Kaplans strikes back!

ROTFL

[Jay 37,287]

Ha!

[Quintus 5,399]

Hehe, score humour.

Ultra modernist geek chic.

Put me down for some of that.

[Trent B 337]

Say what most you will about Ottman's Superman Returns score, it's by far WAY better than this so called score.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yep.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Say what most you will about Ottman's Superman Returns score, it's by far WAY better than this so called score.

absolutely.

I don't mind the little piano tune.