Hans Zimmer's Man Of Steel

[Brónach 1,301]

Well, looking at TDKR...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

It's sort of a different process, because Hans is there from the beginning. Well John is too, but I honestly don't think he's as integral to the filmmaking process as he is to simply the scoring process, if that makes sense.

In the case of Nolan and Zimmer, they start discussing music and its function even before filming begins. So when it ultimately comes time to record and spot, most of the "handing over" has already taken place.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

In the case of Nolan and Zimmer, they start discussing music and its function even before filming begins.

And they still come up with scores like TDKR. What's the point of those discussions if it still results in a score like TDKR? They might as well not have a discussion.

That a discussion took place earlier doesn't lend credence to a score. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as is the proof of the music in the listening. And based on that evidence, it just sounds like a load of worthless bollocks.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

To you. The fact that you think the music doesn't synch with the visuals in Nolan's Batman trilogy is proof that you probably aren't all that familiar with them.

I'll be the first one to say that I felt Man Of Steel truly functioned as wallpaper in the film, but Zimmer haters have been saying that for 20 years.

[Ollie 1,059]

Actually MOS's score stood out as annoying, TDK scores didn't. They did their job and weren't obtrusive.

At times I felt like I was watching a Sci-Fi Channel movie with a big budget.

[KK 3,307]

In the case of Nolan and Zimmer, they start discussing music and its function even before filming begins.

And they still come up with scores like TDKR. What's the point of those discussions if it still results in a score like TDKR? They might as well not have a discussion.

That a discussion took place earlier doesn't lend credence to a score. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as is the proof of the music in the listening. And based on that evidence, it just sounds like a load of worthless bollocks.

I don't think Nolan is to blame about the stylistic choices of Zimmer's latest. Zimmer really admires Nolan and considers him one of the favourite directors he's worked with. I believe that Zimmer chooses to be as experimental as he can while coming up with these almost-gimmicky concepts for Nolan's projects. He tries to bring something new to their partnership each time. Sadly, what he comes up with is rarely all that new.

[Delorean90 42]

The funny thing is that Zimmer kind of did do that "re-direction" with the Batman films in a way, overriding the nuanced variance of tones and story elements (the urban legend/mythical symbol element of Batman, the latent excitement of various action scenes) to bring the focus all on one main point: THIS IS SERIOUS, DAMMIT. Howard's family material was a breath of fresh air that was sadly absent from TDKR (when it would've been exceedingly appropriate).

[gkgyver 1,645]

I just listened to the alternates of Superman The Movie. The alternate Main Title track is one of the most powerful pieces Williams ever did.

The timpani underneath, pounding out the triplet-ostinato is so badass that it kicks the crap out of Zimmer's pseudo-powerful drum circle. While there are certain aspects to the Title March that are inappropriate for Man Of Steel, a slightly altered version would have worked completely. You'd be a fool to underestimate the timelessness of Williams' theme.

[Quintus 5,399]

Cue of his career contender.

[Brónach 1,301]

The different effects with the ostinato are insane. Fucking nailed it. The music says "Wait for it, this is gonna be badass. Wait for it this going to be even more badass! Hey, you actually haven't seen nothing yet!!!"

[Hook1991 10]

The thing I never understand is why composers don't put music in the correct order on CD's kinda drives me crazy!! lol!

[Brónach 1,301]

Many do have a preference for correct order though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The thing I never understand is why composers don't put music in the correct order on CD's kinda drives me crazy!! lol!

Thor....GO!

[Brónach 1,301]

We don't have time for such flimsy explanations!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

YOU SHALL NOT VALUE THE CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER

OVER THE LISTENING EXPERIENCE!!!

[Incanus 5,713]

By Thor's hammer you shall be avenged oh Listening experience!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Brónach 1,301]

GO BACK TO ASGARD! I HAVE AN AXE AND THERE'S FOUR OF ME! You shalt not break the chronological order of the listening experience!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thor hath a hammer, not an axe!

[Brónach 1,301]

I AM OBVIOUSLY NOT THAT WHOM THEY CALL THUNOR, DUH

[Joe Brausam 214]

So I listened to the whole thing on a long drive yesterday, the Limited Edition version.

I'll be honest and say I enjoyed it. I didn't love it in the film, but on album it worked, at least for background music. Especially the quiet material, it's lovely. And I really do get a sense of optimism and hope from the quiet stuff, and the flight theme. I don't know, I think I actually get what Zimmer was going for. I expected to hate it, but I found it good, uplifting at times.

I'm not a Zimmer fan, Spirit: Stallion of the Cimmaron, Muppet Treasure Island, Lion King, At World's End, Frost/Nixon, I love those and I'm luke warm on the rest, but I really liked this one. Go figure.

[Quintus 5,399]

Your frame of mind is similar to my own it seems.

[Jay 37,322]

I still think it's really boring and repetitive.

All the action cues sound the same.

Compare it to something like The Empire Strikes Back. The Battle of Hoth sounds nothing like The Asteroid Field sounds nothing like This Is No Cave sounds nothing like the ending Bespin action material. Yet you can tell they are all from the same score.

MOS uses the same basic ideas for all its action material, whether it's Supes holding up a metal rig, Jor-El flying around on avatar creatures, Zod destroying things, whatever.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Speaking of TESB, do you think we should be grateful that Williams did not score Superman II? In the Blue Box booklet, I read that the studio was doubtful Williams could make room in his schedule, as he was scheduled to do TESB just a little later. Would Superman II, especially with Lester, have taken away some creativity from TESB?

By the way, "Flight" is just a terrible piece of music for Superman. Bah!

[Delorean90 42]

Yeah, I didn't get it. I listened to the OST today, and realized that the flight music is a theme from the Krypton sequences, almost like some kind of tribute/lament/elegy for Krypton. I guess he was trying to tie the development into Superman's roots, but...that doesn't have anything to do with the actual flying scene itself. It's like he's trying too hard to be clever and get under the surface of things, so much that he didn't realize "hey, this scene is about Kal having a chance to embrace his powers and have fun with it. Superman theme it is!" Seriously, the trailer 3/"What Are You Going to Do..." (Superman?) theme was the way to go there--he even builds up with it and then just switches over to the "Oh God, he's finding himself, this is a serious epic moment" bullshit. Dammit.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Zimmer is odd this way for me. He keeps talkinig about finding the true emotions, yet I find Zimmer is, of all composers, the one who relies on the fakest emotions of all.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Caught the film on Saturday, and I've got to say - Zimmer did a hell of job. Really enjoying this score in a way I didn't expect. Love those celestial Lydian chords, white note clusters, the LFO motif for Zod using ZebraHz's resonator, and the delayed piano theme for Lois Lane (somewhat reminiscent of the beaning of 'Arthusa' from Barry's KING KONG).

The percussion isn't fresh. its the same rhythms we've heard all throughout his career, augmented by more drummers.

That's not true. No previous Zimmer score has explored 12/8 hemiolas to this extent.

[Trent B 337]

I still think it's really boring and repetitive.

All the action cues sound the same.

Compare it to something like The Empire Strikes Back. The Battle of Hoth sounds nothing like The Asteroid Field sounds nothing like This Is No Cave sounds nothing like the ending Bespin action material. Yet you can tell they are all from the same score.

MOS uses the same basic ideas for all its action material, whether it's Supes holding up a metal rig, Jor-El flying around on avatar creatures, Zod destroying things, whatever.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Quintus 5,399]

Conventional thinking, traditional bias.

The score is very repetitive, but I don't see why that is a flaw by default. Especially in a bubblegum soundtrack like this one. A lot of music is repetitive and simplistic by design, like trance or techno for example. Both of which I can have a mood for.

Perhaps peeps might shake the preconceptions of what they think film music should be.

[Incanus 5,713]

I still haven't heard anything from this score outside the music from the trailer. The discussion here isn't exactly enticing me to take a listen.

[Quintus 5,399]

Is the thread lacking in lengthy analysis essays, Incy?

[Incanus 5,713]

Is the thread lacking in lengthy analysis essays, Incy?

Nah, I don't think that an analysis of any length could persuade me to appreciate Zimmer's recent output. I have become strongly allergic to his sound. I am glad some of you can appreciate it though. I think the last score I actually liked enough to purchase it was The Da Vinci Code, which had enough pros to override the cons (the nice themes and soloist moments VS the unisono synth sounding real horns (how does he do it?!), so thick soupy sounding basslines you need a hacksaw to cut through them etc.).

[Quintus 5,399]

Tbh this is literally the first Zimmer score since Hannibal to do anything for me. He's 99% boring nowadays.

[Delorean90 42]

Haven't seen Sherlock Holmes, but I like "Discombobulate." I actually very much like Inception; I like the pseudo-Vangelis stuff, I really enjoy the dream motive, and I think it's just an all-around great fit with the film as well.

[crocodile 7,990]

I've said it before, but what makes me buy Zimmer's music these days is that he seems to be less interested in doing an orchestral traditional music, something he's not that good at. Sure, there are plenty of enjoyable works of his that do it the old way (sort of). But now he's doing something else. Mind you, not complex or equivalent, but different. He seems to have embraced the fact he's not an orchestral composer. And in this light his more recent works are interesting. Much closer to people like Vangelis.

What bothers me, though, is something else. Not his approach and/or or level of sophistication. It's that he doesn't seem to have any storytelling going on. It's supposedly a decent enough idea repeated over and over. His last Batman score is the biggest offence of this sort so far. Not only does it not help the film, it manages to make it feel worse than it actually is.

Man of Steel at least manages to provide his main Superman idea (the one from the trailer) some sort of simple development throughout the story. Whether just by using a fragment of the phrase or applying different instrumentation, at least it's there.

Karol

[Delorean90 42]

Indeed. But that potential on display with the gradual development (the bus rescue is a great example of this) just makes its flaws that much more frustrating. For starters, revealing the theme with full gusto over the final title is not a satisfying payoff for that development. You've got plain bad scoring (the flight scene, which SHOULD have been the big reveal), and a lack of attention to effect of the score on an already relentless film. The score (like the Batman scores) fails to acknowledge the variances in tone and importance from scene to scene and character to character. It also provides little relief from or temperance of the bludgeoning that the film gives you; even when the action isn't quite as overwhelming, there's an incessant self-importance about the music, as Zimmer is still plagued with the need to have every moment be hugely significant. It simply gets tiresome.

[crocodile 7,990]

You're right, of course. But I also forgot to say I was referring to the album.

The film... I shall not speak of it anymore.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah yeah!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Loved the film, BTW, but then I've always been a Snyder fan.

[Quintus 5,399]

Damn, I just noticed that the Flight cue as heard on the album is an alternate. The cool pirouetting strings are missing, which are partly what made the cue so good. Hmm, needlessly annoying.

[wanner251 17]

I keep wondering when Hans Zimmer is going to stop pretending to be a talentless hack composer. He is actually much better than his past 10 years can show for it, but his name carrying him, coupled with a decreasingly musically astute bunch of executives, has caused him to regress beyond measure.

I think he has become merely an opportunist. This is very evident in the Pirates of the Caribbean series, of which the first has Klaus Badelt's name on it. Zimmer obviously couldn't be bothered with it because the idea of a film named after a Disneyland Ride would never make it. After it was a huge success, Zimmer made sure that his own name was on it from that point forward. It is clear that he just wants a piece of every epic film he can get his hands on, hence the large group of minions and the willingness to do 10 films a year at times. It is too bad he isn't serious about the craft because he could really be great, I think.

I'm sure that he could take what I've said here and laugh all the way to the bank. Someone should throw down the gauntlet and re-score some of the movies he's done.

[indy4 155]

Actually, Zimmer was contractually not allowed to score PotC 1, which is why Badelt got the credit. Zimmer was responsible for all (or almost all of the themes) and quite a bit of the action music--Badelt merely arranged and orchestrated Zimmer's ideas.

In fact, a demo Zimmer wrote before Badelt was even involved ("Pirates, Day One, 4:56 AM") can serve as a "highlights" track or medley of the score's best moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go357RKjabk

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes, wanner's whole post is pretty much conspiracy BS.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why wasný Zimmer contractually allowed to score POTC? Was he working on something else?

[tannhauser 101]

The last samurai

[Quintus 5,399]

Sounds like Poltergeist all over again! It's most telling that Zimmer didn't take out a page spread in a national newspaper to play down his involvement

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Poltergeist is like [Mr Plinkett voice] "a combination movie" between Spielberg's wider style and themes and specific Hooperisms scattered throughout. POTC is a score that's just slapped together from Zimmer's sound library. I always laugh remembering the kids at Mugglenet forums suggesting Badelt as their preferred composer for any future Potter flicks based on POTC. His effort on The Time Machine maybe, but it's unlikely they would have heard that.

[Quintus 5,399]

In hindsight it's a shame that once legendary face rip off in the mirror wasn't jettisoned in another cut. Because it's literally the only scene in the movie which badly dates the movie - guffaws all round teenage circles makes me sad.

That movie was an amazing ghost story in its day!

[wanner251 17]

OK, well if it was a contractual issue, that makes sense... I realize that Zimmer actually WROTE the music, I knew that already, but not having his name on it didn't make sense. It doesn't make him any less of an opportunist. 12 scores in a year? I wonder how many more he's done that don't have his name on them....

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I always laugh remembering the kids at Mugglenet forums suggesting Badelt as their preferred composer for any future Potter flicks based on POTC. His effort on The Time Machine maybe, but it's unlikely they would have heard that.

RESCUE DAWN was a fine score.