Jerry Goldsmith's The Challenge (New La-la Land CD 2013)

[publicist 4,643]

The current debate about missing mixing bowl percussion effects in Goldsmith's THE CHALLENGE is hilarious. The Lalaland guy states how he used the 'correct' takes whereas the old Prometheus used the 'incorrect' ones .

Good to know that a teacher obviously reprimanded JG for his "incorrect" percussion effect so that he could write a 'correct' take without (the steel mixing bowl makes for a far cooler cue, but you guessed it already). He obviously thought it necessary to mention the alternate end titles on his product, while this regrettable deviation just wasn't deemed 'important' enough.

I quote the esteemed Captain Quint: It proves that you soundtrack producers don't have the education enough to admit when you're wrong.

[Ollie 1,059]

I'll take a producers word over clueless fanboys anyday of the week, especially most of the whiners in the FSM thread.

It's simple. keep the damn Prometheus and return or don't buy the LaLaLand release.

[publicist 4,643]

What is his 'word'? That he was taken to task for an obvious mistake in his production and got fresh with his customers making very dubious claims that are semantical hogwash?

I find the needless partisanship for soundtrack producers, be it LLL or Intrada, even more embarrassing than FSM...

[Richard Penna 3,671]

Well, suggesting a recall/repressing for that type of issue is pretty stupid I think.

But these guys are in a business where people notice mixing and sound quality issues, and Varese gets a fair amount of heat when they screw up, whereas I always see people leaping to LLL/Intrada's defence around here.

My little 'grievance' with LLL is a few decisions they made on The Edge (some cross-fading, and a missing stinger). They are very minor blotches on an otherwise superb release which I'm delighted with. Everyone makes mistakes/mis-judgements, and to dismiss everything as 'clueless fanboys' is a bit unreasonable.

[Ollie 1,059]

Actually MV was pretty clear in his original press release, and respectful to Goldsmith, why they did what they did with the alternate cue.

It's the rude behavior that is tiresome. If someone had a complaint or question they could email LaLaLand, or any other label, and politely ask instead of making a mockery of the whole thing.

Now as far as the mixing bowls go, it's obvious that it's the label's choice when mixing and mastering albums.

To go all Ford Thaxton, they have an email address, someone can contact them and politely ask.

[crocodile 7,984]

To go all Ford Thaxton, they have an email address, someone can contact them and politely ask.

That's a good point.

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

While i agree (and certainly would have done the same...because i'm not even registered at FSM ), even as a minor LLL/Intrada buyer, i became extremely weary of Intrada's/LLL's sometimes downright hostile/prima donna-like behaviour when called up on their production mistakes (and boy, there are more than a handful).

The world might not collapse because of 'wrong' or 'right' takes, the occasional click and pop, booklet misprint or questionable crossfades, but their customers are anal film music fans and they know it. Is it really so hard to acknowledge 'yes, this was an oversight so we apologize'? In TC's case, 80% of their customers already had the score and it was glaringly obvious that they would recognize that such an idiosyncratic percussion element is missing, regardless of which takes they used. To let the matter unexplained and then declare it not an oversight (to at least explain it in the notes) is just feeble. What did he thought would happen?

[Richard Penna 3,671]

It seems to be difficult to point out a perceived flaw in a release at FSM, without being lectured that you're ungrateful.

But actually, I've come across very few boots/sessions/official releases which were done 'perfectly' - there's almost always something, be it a different mix, missing alternate, or just plain missing a cue. You get used to minor disappointments.

Most of the lecturing seems to come from Intrada/LLL/FSM and not Varese though. I think that since Varese isn't customer facing where the others are, some people seem to take it personally when their decisions as album producers are questioned. Even if people here are friends of theirs, it should never make them immune to acknowledging errors in judgement.

Some FSMers however, have a strange idea of how to bring these grievances into the open....

[Jay 37,287]

Due to numerous fan requests, our recent release of THE CHALLENGE is being reprinted and repressed to fix its presentation. If you have already purchased this title, we will make a replacement copy available to you. We will make a general announcement on how to obtain your replacement when we have it in stock in about a month.

Thank you.

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=95486&forumID=1&archive=0

[Richard Penna 3,671]

Um, wow.

Seems to me a bit of an overreaction to try to please the FSM crowd. Would offering a download of the fixed track not have sufficed, given that it's purely a presentational issue?

[Ollie 1,059]

A classy move by LaLaLand, even though there was no need to.

Let's hope some certain other people at another message board show the same amount of class.

[ManofDestiny 71]

I've just placed my order and it shipped last night.

What's wrong with the Challenge?

[Trent B 337]

I've just placed my order and it shipped last night.

What's wrong with the Challenge?

Supposedly there's "instruments (mixing bowls)" missing from two tracks on the LLL version. LLL said in its press release that the original Prometheus released used the WRONG TAKES (probably something Ford Thaxton personally wanted) and LLL used the film version which doesn't have them.

[ManofDestiny 71]

Wasn't LLL's version included both takes?

OK, I've read the FSM post. So it's not an issue of the last track.

[Trent B 337]

Not that cue....there are two other cues mentioned and no LLL didn't include both versions with the first issue.

[Jay 37,287]

La-La Land's mailing list email has revealed the track list

THE CHALLENGE: LIMITED EDITION LLLCD 1248

Music by Jerry Goldsmith

Limited Edition of 3000 Units

STARTS SHIPPING MAY 7th

RETAIL PRICE: $19.98

ORDER “THE CHALLENGE: LIMITED EDITION” starting May 7th at 12pm PST at www.lalalandrecords.com

La-La Land Records and CBS present the remastered release of legendary composer Jerry Goldsmith’s (PATTON, THE OMEN, ALIEN, BASIC INSTINCT) original score to the 1982 motion picture THE CHALLENGE (aka SWORD OF THE NINJA and THE EQUALS), starring Scott Glenn, Toshiro Mifune and Donna Kei Benz, and directed by John Frankenheimer. This release marks the premiere presentation of the film version of the score. Mr. Goldsmith’s modern-day samurai action/drama was scored during what was arguably one of the greatest, most diverse moments of his career (other films he scored that were released in ’82 were FIRST BLOOD, POLTERGEIST, SECRET OF NIHM and INCHON). The composer’s work here is complex action scoring at its finest. Produced by MV Gerhard and remastered by James Nelson, this release features spectacular sound and includes the film version of the finale, (Two alternate takes of the finale are included here as bonus tracks, as is the alternate mix of “The Wrong Sword,” featuring the prominent mixing bowls). The CD booklet features all-new liner notes by film music writer Jeff Bond, who marks his 50th Goldsmith writing project with this release! This is a Limited Edition of 3000 Units.

If you have already purchased La-La Land’s THE CHALLENGE from us previously at www.lalalandrecords.com, the repressing will automatically be sent to you. You do not have to contact us regarding it. If you purchased this La-La Land title previously from another retailer, contact them and it will be sent to you.

TRACK LISTING:

1. Main Title (4:56)

2. The Wrong Sword (3:52)

3. Over The Top / Fish Market (5:19)

4. Half An Equal (2:55)

5. Lonely Road (1:57)

6. “Let’s Talk” (2:14)

7. Interlude (1:00)

8. “Can’t We Do It?” (5:13)

9. The Pit (4:48)

10. Double Cross / Bamboo Forest (6:18)

11. The Traitor (3:28)

12. “Stay With Me” (4:25)

13. “I Will Go” (1:21)

14. Surprise Visitor / Forced Entry (2:09)

15. No Defense (4:08)

16. “As You Wish” / End Title (5:50)

BONUS TRACKS

17. The Wrong Sword (Alternate Take) (3:52)

18. “As You Wish” / End Title (Alternate Edit 1) (5:49)

19. “As You Wish” / End Title (Alternate Edit 2) (5:49)

Total Time: (76:11)

Now call me crazy, but wasn't both The Wrong Sword AND Fish Market supposed to be missing the mixing bowls from the Prometheus version?

EDIT: No, I was wrong.

[crocodile 7,984]

We need to tell them. Ah well, can they repress it again, please?

Karol

[Jay 37,287]

I was wrong - The Fish Market is indeed a cue with mixing bowls, but the LLL version had them intact.

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&threadID=95394

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

So for the new release, do I only have to (re)-rip the bonus tracks, or did they also swap bonus tracks an in-programme tracks?

[Jay 37,287]

The bonus tracks are new, the main program is the same.

[Marian Schedenig 8,173]

Thanks.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Pft, whatever. My Prometheus one will do.