Hans Zimmer started on INTERSTELLAR

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I don't hear "lightness" in Cornfield Chase, rather a sense of religious awe. Wistful yet austere - light only in the sense of bright orchestral colours, not in emotional content. The same applies to Quantifiable Connection, which is just a restatement of that same theme - an identical mood. I'm Going Home to my ears is more unsettling than anything else, despite the almost naive Lydian flavour to the harmonies, there's something malevolent in the strings' climbing chromatic line.

[KK 3,307]

The feeling of religious awe is consistent throughout the whole score. It plays on that one mood as a whole. Add to that the constant reptition of the main theme, I can understand why someone might not feel like the score isn't necessarily going anywhere (though this idea isn't necessarily true).

The main theme is almost like a crutch for this score, whenever the film needs "more emotion", it goes back to those same chords. And whenever the organ comes in, it's almost always playing those same organ lines. The feeling rarely changes. It always sounds sad/hopeful.

Completely agreed on I'm Going Home Sharky. Real highlight of the score.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

So what about all those other things that I mentioned?

And what is this about constant repetition of the main theme? It appears in like five of the thirty-something cues.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Well, most of the score's mood is a combination of muted optimism, muted wonder and loneliness. None of these qualities are really exclusive to any of the cues you list.

[KK 3,307]

Never mind. I guess it becomes 60 BPM around the end right?

That's pretty neat.

[Jay 37,300]

There are also a few alternates. Stay and Message From Home are different than their official counterparts.

Atmospheric Entry, too.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yDVlbkzOW6Ytmts4aUQ43pOOVdaLFqBg1KyJUjl4Dd8/pubhtml

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

It just fades out later though. Not really different.

[Jay 37,300]

True

BTW, I don't think it's a coincidence that track 33 on the FYC site has distortion, and then tracks 34 and 35 are missing entirely. Something must have happened with a data transfer from Point A to Point B that led to that happening and nobody at Paramount has noticed yet. I also wonder if they intended to have a 36th and/or 37th track as well, for the end credits.

Hopefully they fix the site at some point.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Hopefully it's not something wrong with the actual discs, so that when those are out there, we'll have it all in undistorted FLAC. I doubt they'd distribute glitchy discs anyway.

[Jay 37,300]

LOL. That was a silly post.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Oh. Sorry.

[Jay 37,300]

Well, there's no chance that any major label would release discs with distortion - obviously.

But also, there's no connection between the FYC site and the upcoming 2 disc set. The FYC site is just a complete session dump. The 2CD set will still be the standard OST on it's first disc, complete with it's microedits and altered mixing, etc, while the Bonus Disc will just be the Digital Deluxe add-on files, plus some more of that kind of stuff. So it still won't be a complete or chronological presentation.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I meant the FYC discs.

[Jay 37,300]

Ah!

Good point. I wonder if WaterTower will be pressing a 2 disc FYC set.

They might just mail out the OST to academy voters.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I'm noticing a lot of details in the music thanks to the differences in mixing between the OST and FYC, and also just in the stuff that wasn't included in the OST. Like the little bit of choir in We're Here... pretty cool. Really can't wait to have the box set in physical form, and hopefully the complete FYC in FLAC.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

What's the distortion in Quantifiable Connection? I thought it might be those click-ish noises but they seem to increase in tempo as the music builds.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Whatever it is it's pretty annoying. It's in the foreground while everything else (due to Zimmer's preference for ambient mics and outriggers) is in the background. It's also out of phase with the tempo.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Sorry, but thinking that variation is utterly necessary in art is just lazy.

It's actually a very grounded and realistic viewpoint. Variation is a necessity of life. Emotional variation is a fundamental element of human psychology and a fundamental mechanism for the survival of a species. You are here because of emotional variation: your ancestors weren't eaten by a tiger because they weren't in a constant state of extreme fear, so that when they were alarmed, it registered as something meaningful, a difference in emotional state that caused them to alter their behavior, to pay greater attention, for their hearts to beat faster, their pupils to dilate, their senses to sharpen, their focus to center.

Is it utterly necessary in art? If the purpose of the art is to induce a state of boredom or to avoid calling attention to itself, then no it is not necessary, and there's great art that takes advantage of that.

But "being acceptable" and intentionality are not the same. I'm not sure what Zimmer's intentions were with the fixed emotional narrative of the score, or if he had any intentions behind it at all.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Oh, I wasn't agreeing that this score is emotionally monochromatic, just pointing out that some art thrives with that approach and not every score need be as hyperactive and bipolar as an 80s Williams effort... which as we know is the unreasonable artistic yardstick against which many here measure all music.

And as realistic and grounded as it may be to value variation, it is in fact lazy to accept that as necessity in everything.

And no the distortion in Quantifiable Connection isn't supposed to be there. It's a glitch, not an effect.

[KK 3,307]

Well no one was asking for Hook or anything...but something less monochromatic would have been nicer.

I don't even think Zimmer aimed for his final work to end up like that, it kind of just happened with the nature of the pieces he was writing. And that could be viewed as a consequence to the approach of not scoring to picture and yada yada

[RedBard 71]

Oh, I wasn't agreeing that this score is emotionally monochromatic, just pointing out that some art thrives with that approach and not every score need be as hyperactive and bipolar as an 80s Williams effort... which as we know is the unreasonable artistic yardstick against which many here measure all music.

Not me. I measure mostly off of Nino Rota...

... or do I?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Unfortunately, a lot of scores (and a lot of art in general) are emotionally stagnant not by the artist's intention, but rather by the artist's lack of thought.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

If it was so monochromatic then why hasn't anyone ventured a complete refutation of all of those various moods I listed? Don't be lazy, support what you say! I mean, do I have some form of psychosis where I sense varied content where there is in fact none?

[RedBard 71]

Unfortunately, a lot of scores (and a lot of art in general) are emotionally stagnant not by the artist's intention, but rather by the artist's lack of thought.

Thought for what? The music or the intended audience?

[Hlao-roo 389]

Oh, I wasn't agreeing that this score is emotionally monochromatic, just pointing out that some art thrives with that approach and not every score need be as hyperactive and bipolar as an 80s Williams effort... which as we know is the unreasonable artistic yardstick against which many here measure all music.

Goldenthal's Titus is the yardstick by which I measure all music.

[KK 3,307]

You must be disappointed often then.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Disappointed, but more thoughtful than your average JWFan.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

If it was so monochromatic then why hasn't anyone ventured a complete refutation of all of those various moods I listed? Don't be lazy, support what you say! I mean, do I have some form of psychosis where I sense varied content where there is in fact none?

"Going Home" is about the only one I can concede to you. I'm looking at the 24-track Deluxe Version. But just about all the tracks are variations of a very distinct mood, and they never venture very far from it. And the dominant mood never climaxes or resolves, it just flows from one timid variation to another, and then you get hit with something like "Going Home" and it feels like a blast of fresh air, followed by more and more of remixing of the same stuff.

At no point do I feel like I've made emotional progress. As the listener, I am not forced to leave anything behind. You can expect everything to repeat before long.

Which again, is fine if that's the artist's goal. I'm just not sure that it's the case here.

Let's look at one case, the emotional, thematic, and narrative heart of the film: the protagonist of the movie leaves his daughter and family behind...why doesn't the music try to reflect that? Hasn't the state of the world (and our characters) suddenly and dramatically changed? Why not acknowledge it? OK we get a little something: we get our overbearing doom and gloom mood getting really loud at the end of "Stay" and then we're back to...the same doom and gloom (with some random variation) mood for the 18 of the next 19 tracks.

Put the music on shuffle and see if you can identify what part of the story you're in.

[King Mark 3,625]

so what's that spinning dock music some crazy fan spent a week re-creating the film version with extras organs?

[Jay 37,300]

Deluxe Edition track "No Time For Caution" is Zimmer's original intended cue; You can find fan edits that match the music editor mashup used in the final film on youtube or wherever else.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

If it was so monochromatic then why hasn't anyone ventured a complete refutation of all of those various moods I listed? Don't be lazy, support what you say! I mean, do I have some form of psychosis where I sense varied content where there is in fact none?

"Going Home" is about the only one I can concede to you. I'm looking at the 24-track Deluxe Version. But just about all the tracks are variations of a very distinct mood, and they never venture very far from it. And the dominant mood never climaxes or resolves, it just flows from one timid variation to another, and then you get hit with something like "Going Home" and it feels like a blast of fresh air, followed by more and more of remixing of the same stuff.

At no point do I feel like I've made emotional progress. As the listener, I am not forced to leave anything behind. You can expect everything to repeat before long.

Which again, is fine if that's the artist's goal. I'm just not sure that it's the case here.

Let's look at one case, the emotional, thematic, and narrative heart of the film: the protagonist of the movie leaves his daughter and family behind...why doesn't the music try to reflect that? Hasn't the state of the world (and our characters) suddenly and dramatically changed? Why not acknowledge it? OK we get a little something: we get our overbearing doom and gloom mood getting really loud at the end of "Stay" and then we're back to...the same doom and gloom (with some random variation) mood for the 18 of the next 19 tracks.

Put the music on shuffle and see if you can identify what part of the story you're in.

When you read my analysis, you'll understand. And weep.

In the meantime I direct you, like Stefan, to any number of conversations or resources off the forum about why "emotional progress" is unimportant to Nolan/Zimmer. There is a diversity of tone from cue to cue, and I will continue to argue that because, well, I experience it. Is there a typical narrative development of those ideas though? Nope. That's not the point.

[KK 3,307]

Will he? Will technical analyses really change the way and the kind of emotions the score actually draws from him?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Yep. Seems to have worked for a few people to some degree on my last ones.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Of course not. I don't expect my much belated MAN OF STEEL ANALYSIS THREAD to convert anyone. If you already liked the score, you'll read it; if not you'll just ignore it. People who are on the fence - that's a different matter.

[KK 3,307]

Right. I'm sure he'd appreciate the score more. But if he feels its emotionally a bit monochromatic, I'm not sure pointing out technical examples will likely change his mind.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Of course not. I don't expect my much belated MAN OF STEEL analysis to convert anyone. If you already liked the score, you'll read it; if not you'll just ignore it. People who are on the fence - that's a different matter.

I look forward to it.

And the point isn't really to directly change someone's emotional response to the music. Who the fuck could or would try to do that? The point is to make architectural decisions clear, to draw connections between materials, to elucidate the "why" of the score. That much can be clarified and explained. The CHANCE for greater emotional connection can be given, since often it seems like preconceptions or misunderstandings about the nature of Zimmer's music prevents that for many people - that's why I write this shit. Whether or not the music makes him feel anything, in the end, is a moot point. But as I've made clear, on this subject I'll go to bat any time someone says something that can actually be argued. And this can be argued. Full-fledged, neo-romantic development of musical materials in conjunction with dramatic development has never been a real concern for Nolan and Zimmer, so why would it start to be one now? It's a completely valid approach to scoring. Frankly I've come to enjoy it more than the alternative.

What can't be really argued is if the score is emotionally diverse or not. But... every time someone mentions how monochromatic the score is, how emotionally homogenous it is, I will say the opposite. That's simply been my experience with it. It's not those things. One's elemental, inner experiences with music can't be argued, but they can at least be opposed. We can't tell each other we're wrong, but we also can't have anyone out in internet land reading and seeing only one side of the story.

[KK 3,307]

Fair enough. I may have just misconstrued one of your statements.

I look forward to your MoS analysis too Sharky. Though I'm not really a fan of the score, it has some nice moments and I look forward to youd thoughts on it.

[RedBard 71]

Of course not. I don't expect my much belated MAN OF STEEL ANALYSIS THREAD to convert anyone. If you already liked the score, you'll read it; if not you'll just ignore it. People who are on the fence - that's a different matter.

So... when can we expect it?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

On the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the east.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I have no problem with not providing musical development alongside dramatic development. I don't need mickey-mousing and leitmotif. That's not the question. Last night while I was writing I was listening to Thomas Tallis, and his work has a similar religious monotony that is so well-crafted its positively hypnotic.

I love Brian Eno for the same reason, his music is generally lacking in any development, but he uses stochasticity to keep you engaged. And again it's sublimely hypnotic and transcendental music.

But if you are going to do it, you have to remember that you are flying in the face of billions of years evolution that has bred me for novelty. You better fucking bring your A-game. While Zimmers effort is noble, it's very dull after a few minutes. It sits in an awkward place between trying to be original and trying to be traditional.

It doesn't go far enough. There is nothing transcendental about the music, it's actually shockingly very middle of the road.

Sorry TGP, but it's not art music. It's a corporate take on art music, too afraid to genuinely delve into what it wants to be and can't be because of its fears.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True.

[MedigoScan 324]

Opinions!

Rabble, rabble

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

A better response than the one I initially posted is: your opinion is bad, and you should feel bad!

But I will retain the question to Blume about how he accounts for my and others' "transcendental" experience with the score, then. Sounds less like an issue with the music and more like the possibility of some individuals just not connecting with it. Again, it's those sweeping claims I hate... especially the notion that Hans fucking Zimmer, working for Christopher fucking Nolan, gave a shit about how genuinely he could delve into what he truly wanted to do because of big bad corporate Hollywood.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well said!

[Hlao-roo 389]

A better response than the one I initially posted is: your opinion is bad, and you should feel bad!

 

But I will retain the question to Blume about how he accounts for my and others' "transcendental" experience with the score, then.  Sounds less like an issue with the music and more like the possibility of some individuals just not connecting with it.  Again, it's those sweeping claims I hate... especially the notion that Hans fucking Zimmer, working for Christopher fucking Nolan, gave a shit about how genuinely he could delve into what he truly wanted to do because of big bad corporate Hollywood.

Isn't it possible that the people responding positively to the score are simply misguided?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

They're probably just fanboys.

"Fanboys" are anyone who disagrees with you and forces you to actually consider and justify your opinions instead of making grandiose dismissals, right?

[KK 3,307]

Hmm, we may be getting too meta for our own good here...

Can we just accept that Zimmer is AWESOME, and that it all makes sense, and move on?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I don't know, that sounds a little emotionally monochromatic. Not at all transcendental. It would be nice to have a little more variety in the conversation. It's only natural.

[KK 3,307]

Hey can't people still love the score with some criticism on the side? Or must we love Zimmer unconditionally, in all aspects of his one true genius, and deny that he is capable of fault?

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I don't see much love for the score with criticism on the side though. I see the usual JWFan griping and bellyaching, the same repeated buzzy negative sentiments, with any enthusiasm or even begrudging praise now a thing of last month save one or two voices. The most frustrating part though is that any attempt to actually discuss the score in any other context typically just leads to more of this same crap. I know every time I post in this thread, or mention the score or film in another, someone will restart the BS. When I post my analysis, will people actually talk about the fucking score, or moan about what they wish it had been?

I wonder who is going to be the "me" of Episode VII when both the film and score inevitably attract the whiners.