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Fair enough.

If it's any consolation, I think the score's great. I may sometimes whine or indulge in wishful thinking about how I would have liked some parts of the score to have been, but I do stress that I enjoy and appreciate this score very much.

I'll be writing a review soon, and hopefully that'll offer a more balanced representation of my thoughts ;)

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I love the score to Mission to Mars

It seems to me that Zimmer's approach is usually to score the mood of the film, not particularly story or characters. This is the main difference with the traditional Hollywood music style approach. H

http://www.filmmusicsociety.org/news_events/features/2014/110614.html Now that's what you call an article worth reading!

I don't see much love for the score with criticism on the side though. I see the usual JWFan griping and bellyaching, the same repeated buzzy negative sentiments, with any enthusiasm or even begrudging praise now a thing of last month save one or two voices. The most frustrating part though is that any attempt to actually discuss the score in any other context typically just leads to more of this same crap. I know every time I post in this thread, or mention the score or film in another, someone will restart the BS. When I post my analysis, will people actually talk about the fucking score, or moan about what they wish it had been?

I wonder who is going to be the "me" of Episode VII when both the film and score inevitably attract the whiners.

What context would you prefer to discuss this score in?

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Theoretical analyses, thematic deconstruction, instrumentations and textures, its relation to other Nolan and non-Nolan Zimmer scores, differences between album and film usage/arrangement/editing, any unused material that may surface when the box set is released, Zimmer and Nolan's process, any interviews or insights that pop up around the web regarding the score... etc.

The music itself, not everyone and their mother's personal feelings on it.

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Hey can't people still love the score with some criticism on the side? Or must we love Zimmer unconditionally, in all aspects of his one true genius, and deny that he is capable of fault?

That's really the only problem i have with TGP's unrelenting defense of this score and film.

I love both, but apparently its not allowed to have any other opinion then that they are utterly flawless in every way.

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Hey can't people still love the score with some criticism on the side? Or must we love Zimmer unconditionally, in all aspects of his one true genius, and deny that he is capable of fault?

That's really the only problem i have with TGP's unrelenting defense of this score and film.

I love both, but apparently its not allowed to have any other opinion then that they are utterly flawless in every way.

I see you're continuing to ignore every single post I make about how "opinion" is not at all what I am or have been arguing about.

How does Zimmer's approach to scoring Nolan's films differ from Julyan's?

I'm looking forward to thinking about this and posting something later tonight.

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The first great Zimmer score in more than 10 years. I give the score and the movie strong 4 out of 5 stars. The only thing the score suffers from is too much repetition in its thematic material. I hated most of Zimmers output this last decade but he finally delivered a score worthy of his 90s and early 2000 highlights (The Lion King, Gladiator, Prince of Egypt)

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Hey can't people still love the score with some criticism on the side? Or must we love Zimmer unconditionally, in all aspects of his one true genius, and deny that he is capable of fault?

That's really the only problem i have with TGP's unrelenting defense of this score and film.

I love both, but apparently its not allowed to have any other opinion then that they are utterly flawless in every way.

I see you're continuing to ignore every single post I make about how "opinion" is not at all what I am or have been arguing about.

But that sort of is what this ongoing debate is about. Some people say the music is repetitive and not varied enough and therefore cannot possibly be engaging on a higher level, but you are arguing against that, citing your own transcendent experience as proof. The music is the same regardless of who is talking about it, therefore it has to be the person's ears and brains processing the information differently. It's an entirely subjective discussion which is why it isn't going anywhere. Let Blume enjoy his Brian Eno, and just enjoy the music for yourself. That's what I've been doing.

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Hey can't people still love the score with some criticism on the side? Or must we love Zimmer unconditionally, in all aspects of his one true genius, and deny that he is capable of fault?

That's really the only problem i have with TGP's unrelenting defense of this score and film.

I love both, but apparently its not allowed to have any other opinion then that they are utterly flawless in every way.

I see you're continuing to ignore every single post I make about how "opinion" is not at all what I am or have been arguing about.

But that sort of is what this ongoing debate is about. Some people say the music is repetitive and not varied enough and therefore cannot possibly be engaging on a higher level, but you are arguing against that, citing your own transcendent experience as proof. The music is the same regardless of who is talking about it, therefore it has to be the person's ears and brains processing the information differently. It's an entirely subjective discussion which is why it isn't going anywhere. Let Blume enjoy his Brian Eno, and just enjoy the music for yourself. That's what I've been doing.

Well exactly. I'm not trying to tell anyone their opinion is wrong. It's just irksome when people state theirs as fact. And then get indignant when someone dares to point that out and ask them why. And I realize that happens every day on every subject on the internet, but it's good sport in this case.

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How does Zimmer's approach to scoring Nolan's films differ from Julyan's?

I think I need to really listen to their first three collaborations to answer this well. I've never been a fan of those scores, although Insomnia has a certain very occasional appeal to it. But going off of what I remember about them, and the great The Prestige, I think there actually isn't a big difference in the core aesthetic goal of the composer. The idea of using generally unchanging, or subtly changing, pieces as recurring musical framing rather than musical cells that evolve and develop radically with the story seems to have been Nolan's approach from the start. But those early scores take it to an extreme, where the music is astonishingly sparse and repetitive - in fact I think there's probably a good deal of tracking in them. It would be interesting to know just how much of Nolan's increased interest in and willingness to include richer music in and after Batman Begins had to do with a simple necessity of working on a larger cinematic canvas, and how much had to do with JNH and especially Zimmer's counsel. The fact that they're close friends suggests that they probably have a really deep influence on each other artistically. I wouldn't be surprised if Zimmer embraced Nolan's musical philosophy but gently suggested that he could be just a bit less minimal about things. So even Nolan's brief return to Julyan and a smaller scale with The Prestige still yielded more musical returns than before. I know a few younger directors myself who are rather afraid of music, in a weird way, and in need of some sound reassurance that it's ok to use it. I guess that's better than being an advocate for the current generic maximalism right from the start.

What do you think?

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Theoretical analyses, thematic deconstruction, instrumentations and textures, its relation to other Nolan and non-Nolan Zimmer scores, differences between album and film usage/arrangement/editing, any unused material that may surface when the box set is released, Zimmer and Nolan's process, any interviews or insights that pop up around the web regarding the score... etc.

The music itself, not everyone and their mother's personal feelings on it.

*chirp* *chirp*

Ready...set...go...

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I know a few younger directors myself who are rather afraid of music, in a weird way, and in need of some sound reassurance that it's ok to use it.

Interesting observation! I have to deal with the same kind of thing (though I hardly have your expertise), where directors often want something ultra-minimalistic where even a drone is ideal for them. This is the common approach for a lot of up and coming indie filmmakers.

After all, Nolan was, is and will always be an independent filmmaker, or at least in his approach to filmmaking. The way he works with his budget, films with practical, tangible techniques over the computer, his efficiency on set, etc are all signs of an indie director, just one who is now offered huge budgets and is widely respected. And this reflects in his preference for minimalistic scores. It's still that mindset from his days of Memento, and in that sense, he's kind of like what he likes to describes Zimmer as; a minimalist with maximalist production values. And that has reflected in his film scores, from the Julyan works to Zimmer. But as you said, the latter has probably helped him expand that scope and vision a bit.

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A good portion of it was sampled and synthesized. Meyerson took the stems and played them back out into a real space and recorded the result. It's called "worldizing" and usually applies to sound effects, but really is just the idea of recording a non-acoustic sound source in a real space to add a dimension of realism. I'd love to get my hands on a good space to "worldize" some of my mockups!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Someone on NF posted the supposed track list for the box set.

The tracklist of the Illuminated Star Projection Edition has been released:

Disc 1: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack

1. Dreaming Of The Crash

2. Cornfield Chase

3. Dust

4. Day One

5. Stay

6. Message From Home

7. The Wormhole

8. Mountains

9. Afraid Of Time

10. A Place Among The Stars

11. Running Out

12. I'm Going Home

13. Coward

14. Detach

15. S.T.A.Y.

16. Where We're Going

Disc 2: Bonus Disc

1. First Step

2. Flying Drone

3. Atmospheric Entry

4. No Need To Come Back

5. Imperfect Lock

6. What Happens Now?

7. Who's They?*

8. Murph*

9. Organ Variation*

10. Tick - Tock*

11. Day One (Original Demo)*

12. Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night

* Bonus material with 35 minutes of music unavailable anywhere else.

Source: amazon.de

Tracks 1-6 and 12 are the same as on the Digital Deluxe Edition.

Track 7 might be the same as the FYC version (same title).

Track 8 is probably a suite containing the father-daughter love theme.

Track 9 is Hans going crazy on Temple Church's organ. Holy moly!

Track 10 is probably a suite containing the beginning of Mountains or even the climax.

Track 11 is the original demo that Hans wrote for Chris that made the director say "I suppose Id better make the movie, now."

No Time for Caution is not included

So nothing fantastically new, though Hans shredding at the organ console is exciting. But between this and the FYC this score has been treated really well.

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Very cool read, Tim!

I thought this part was interesting:

Christopher Nolan: Hans has the best sample library in the world. And what we’ve done on every film is, we’ve worked a long time with just what comes out of his studio, his synthesizers—which are incredibly advanced. Then we go and we do mammoth recording sessions where we just find that extra something, the incremental improvement—sometimes of massive importance—of having human beings playing real instruments. Hans is a real believer in that organic process. I am too. Every time we think the score is almost finished, we then go and do the recording session, and we just find something more.
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I told you guys it sounded like a Wallmart relaxation tape.

I was right, in the movie one of the characters gives the other character a relaxation tape with weather sound effects to relax. That's what's over the music in the OST

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I'm sure this was observed before, but I haven't read this whole thread because I don't like the score no matter what

Pretty much the same with every new "masterpiece" Zimmer churns out in the past few years. By comparison even the Hobbit music sounds like The Empire Strikes Back

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  • 2 weeks later...

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