Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

she will die in the next film?

along with his secret dwarven love

[Barnald 365]

Doug has confirmed on twitter that the samples were the first 30 seconds of each track.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,352]

It was obvious to me they were.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,346]

It prbably seems like that because we don't have the endings of each track.

[luke905 18]

RETURNING themes I hear in these samples:

03 A Necromancer

0:02-0:27 is this a new variation of Descending Thirds?

08 Barrels Out Of Bond

0:00-0:13 Bilbo's Adventure Theme

0:22-end Bilbo's Fussy Theme

12 The High Fells

0:09-0:11 is that choral word from the Ringwraith theme?

0:11-end the High Fells strings from Edge of the Wild

13 The Nature of Evil

all The Woodland Realm theme (theme when Thranduil enters Erebor in My Dear Frodo)

17 Durin's Folk

0:18- 0:28 Erebor

18 In The Shadow of the Mountain

all Is this the opening logos theme from AUJ?

19 A Spell of Concealment

0:11-end Descending Thirds

21 The Courage of Hobbits

0:09-end The Shire

22 Inside Information

0:07-0:09 first two notes of Smaug's Theme

24 A Liar and a Thief

0:200:25 Smaug's inverted theme (from Axe or Sword)

Did I miss anything?

Good list! From what I can make out, I would add:

10 The Forest river

The motive started in the horns and continued in the trumpets sounds like a more action-oriented variant of the Woodland Realm theme

20 On the Doorstep

Erebor motive at the beginning and end. Also, the short horn bit in the middle is reminiscent of "Into the West", but I'd guess that's coincidental

At the end of On the Doorstep I believe there is a hint of Gandalf's Theme.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yes Beyond the Forest seems to be the answer to my pining for a nice choral piece over the credits.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yes, like Amandil traveling to the West to plead for the intervention of the Valar on behalf of Numenor under Sauron, Doug has plead for JWFan under Sheeran.

[luke905 18]

RETURNING themes I hear in these samples:

03 A Necromancer

0:02-0:27 is this a new variation of Descending Thirds?

08 Barrels Out Of Bond

0:00-0:13 Bilbo's Adventure Theme

0:22-end Bilbo's Fussy Theme

12 The High Fells

0:09-0:11 is that choral word from the Ringwraith theme?

0:11-end the High Fells strings from Edge of the Wild

13 The Nature of Evil

all The Woodland Realm theme (theme when Thranduil enters Erebor in My Dear Frodo)

17 Durin's Folk

0:18- 0:28 Erebor

18 In The Shadow of the Mountain

all Is this the opening logos theme from AUJ?

19 A Spell of Concealment

0:11-end Descending Thirds

21 The Courage of Hobbits

0:09-end The Shire

22 Inside Information

0:07-0:09 first two notes of Smaug's Theme

24 A Liar and a Thief

0:200:25 Smaug's inverted theme (from Axe or Sword)

Did I miss anything?

In addition to the Gandalf's Theme in On the Doorstep that I mentioned earlier, in Durin's Folk we can hear a hint of Thorin's theme.

[gkgyver 1,645]

You can catch the first glimpse of the clavicord at the very end of Thrice Welcome, even though it's basically just a blop in the audio. It will be interesting to hear how it's used.

[Faleel 5,346]

For some reason, that bit makes me think of William's PoA.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Me too.

[Jay 37,352]

Good list! From what I can make out, I would add:

10 The Forest river

The motive started in the horns and continued in the trumpets sounds like a more action-oriented variant of the Woodland Realm theme

I'm not hearing that.

20 On the Doorstep

Erebor motive at the beginning and end. Also, the short horn bit in the middle is reminiscent of "Into the West", but I'd guess that's coincidental

Ah yes!! Lovely new arrangement of the Erebor theme to open the track!

At the end of On the Doorstep I believe there is a hint of Gandalf's Theme.

I'm not hearing that. As mentioned above, that's the Erebor theme.

In addition to the Gandalf's Theme in On the Doorstep that I mentioned earlier, in Durin's Folk we can hear a hint of Thorin's theme.

Yup, like it's straining to the Thorin's theme and playing the first 2 notes, but doesn't resolve

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

You mean in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LodYTJYpnT0#t=0

Why would an action track from the finale contain Radagast's theme?

Either Radagast's old theme was kept for continued use, or he no longer has any theme at all.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,352]

I can't imagine what Radagast would have to do with the finale of DOS. Gandalf doesn't even rejoin the company until TABA.

[KK 3,307]

Exactly. That can't be Radagast's "new" theme.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Nah, that's just the common stylistic traits of Shore's writing that you're hearing.

I don't think Radagast's alternate music in film actually had a theme for the character.

At 13:22 of be YouTube video (containing the DOS snippets) I think could be Radagasts new theme. It sounds like an alteration of the version cut out of the AUJ film, it also features some of that string vibration sound (not sure what the technical term is, it's not a trill I know that) used the film version of Radagast The Brown.

Are you talking about 13:24? That is a trill.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I can't imagine what Radagast would have to do with the finale of DOS. Gandalf doesn't even rejoin the company until TABA.

It seems he helps Gandalf escape from Dol Guldur.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Am I the only that doesn't like Thrice Welcome?

It seems...oddly anachronistic in a universe that's really a mixture of anachronisms. I know, I sound like a silly mad-man. But it sounds too Elizabethan for the strange concoction of human history that is Middle Earth.

Harpsichords are too late-medieval–renaissance for Middle Earth. They belong to Harry Potter, not Lord of the Rings.

- Gone off the Deep End Blume. Debating the validity of instrumental history for a fantasy film.

[Jay 37,352]

Nope, sounds great to me.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The music is fine. THE HARPSICHORD MUST GO!

It damages the integrity of the Middle Earth soundscape!

[Jay 37,352]

Wait until you've heard the whole thing :-)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Incanus 5,714]

The music is fine. THE HARPSICHORD MUST GO!

It damages the integrity of the Middle Earth soundscape!

On one hand it might sound strange, on the other the Lake Town setting is a cultural melting pot with the wordly sly Master, where it might be entirely appropriate to have such a sound as clavichord added to the musical palette. It has both the feel of refinement and sophistication and somehow it sounds sly and sinister as well. Perhaps with Lake-Town we are shown a more wordly and earthy medieval town than the proud, militaristic and stoic Minas Tirith with noble history.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It's not a harpsichord, I think, but a clavichord, which sounds rather different given its full sounding time and not a microsecond at the end of a sample.

But now that I think about it, maybe there was a harpsichord in one of those pictures of the recording sessions too.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[luke905 18]

In addition to the Gandalf's Theme in On the Doorstep that I mentioned earlier, in Durin's Folk we can hear a hint of Thorin's theme.

Yup, like it's straining to the Thorin's theme and playing the first 2 notes, but doesn't resolve

Yes, I believe in The Desolation of Smaug there will be a more subtle use of the themes.

However, the fact remains that there is a hint to the theme

that could have a significance on a narrative level.

At the end of On the Doorstep I believe there is a hint of Gandalf's Theme.

I'm not hearing that. As mentioned above, that's the Erebor theme.

I hear the Erebor theme at the beginning of the track, but the last three notes played by the horn seem to me the first three notes that open the theme for Gandalf the Grey introduced in An Unexpectd Journey.

However, I do not know if it is possible that there is narratively Gandalf in this segment of the film, or if maybe someone talk about him quickly.

Surely we will know clearly seeing the film.

[KK 3,307]

The music is fine. THE HARPSICHORD MUST GO!

It damages the integrity of the Middle Earth soundscape!

Middle-Earth has used the Hardinger fiddle, African Rhaita, bodhran drums, tin whistles, pan flutes, bagpipes, taiko drums, Tibetan bowls, spoons, etc in its colourful musical palette. And they've all worked perfectly in context. I don't doubt that the clavichord will be effective in Laketown as well.

I find the final bit of music after he main Laketown theme really lovely, it kind of reminds me of Eowyn's theme.

That bit is part of the Laketown theme.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The music is fine. THE HARPSICHORD MUST GO!

It damages the integrity of the Middle Earth soundscape!

Middle-Earth has used the Hardinger fiddle, African Rhaita, bodhran drums, tin whistles, pan flutes, bagpipes, taiko drums, Tibetan bowls, spoons, etc in its colourful musical palette. And they've all worked perfectly in context. I don't doubt that the clavichord will be effective in Laketown as well.

Those are all instruments that don't necessarily conjure up cultural/historical associations with them at first hearing, though. The harpsichord starts to walk that very fine line between exotic and familiar, I agree. And the bagpipes are something I actually hope aren't utilized much more at all, because they, to me, are too familiar.

[KK 3,307]

I agree, I'd rather not hear the bagpipes anymore. But I have a feeling the clavichord will be used in a more subtle fashion to help create mood and atmosphere rather than dominate the picture.

I don't think Shore will be writing a fanfare for solo clavichord to represent Laketown

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yep, I think the calvichord will work well, since it has a much more unique, plaintive sound than the harpsichord, which will probably just make the general audience think of powdered wigs.

[Faleel 5,346]

The brass is really annoying, makes me think of an orchestra!

[KK 3,307]

The boy sopranos must go! It makes me think of Justin Bieber!

[Faleel 5,346]

Nah, it reminds me of the Pope.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Ditch the orchestra, it reminds me of Pope's involvement.

[crocodile 8,006]

Scrap the score altogether, reminds me of Hollywood schmaltz!

Karol

[KK 3,307]

We need Hans Zimmer I tell ya! And his circle of vuvuzela players, which will then be processed with synthesizers to sound just like Inception.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

In all seriousness, I have to reluctantly admit, hearing Howard Shore's (no doubt detailed!) orchestrations handled and polished by Conrad Pope makes me realize Marcus [Paus] was spot on with his assessment on Howard Shore's weaker orchestration chops.

There is a clarity to the soundscape of these samples that we haven't heard heard before in the Rings films. And I don't think it's just the recording quality or the change in orchestra, though I'm sure they contribute.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I don't think "weak" is how I'd describe it. Perhaps "not like John Williams" is more apt here.

There's no real difference to me from those samples. If anything, things are a little less colorful than usual.

[Jim Ware 526]

In all seriousness, I have to reluctantly admit, hearing Howard Shore's (no doubt detailed!) orchestrations handled and polished by Conrad Pope makes me realize Marcus [Paus] was spot on with his assessment on Howard Shore's weaker orchestration chops.

There is a clarity to the soundscape of these samples that we haven't heard heard before in the Rings films. And I don't think it's just the recording quality or the change in orchestra, though I'm sure they contribute.

A valid comparison here is Conrad Pope's influence on The Matrix Reloaded.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I said reluctantly!

I don't think "weak" is how I'd describe it. Perhaps "not like John Williams" is more apt here.