Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Doug Adams 494]

Doug, tell us what you think about The Book Thief.

Karol - really curious

Any score that uses chord extensions in this day and age is ok by me! It's amazing how rare that is anymore.

It's a genuinely lovely score. Lyrical, coherent, and elegant.

[Bilbo 3,709]

So..no star wars project.....unless he means the early days of film score resurrection

Never say never.

It amazes me that of all the Star Wars books that have ever been published (and I have a lot) that there has never been anything devoted to the scores,

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,338]

Never Say Never is also a James Bond film!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

That's right! Stick with the times Jason!

[crocodile 8,000]

Besides, that wasn't a real Bond film...

Karol

[Bilbo 3,709]

So BloadBoal is actually a BelieBer. Makes sense.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If that is true he must die!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Bilbo 3,709]

That's proof enough for me. Get him!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hey hey we're the JWfanners!

[Bilbo 3,709]

I don't know you anymore. You're breaking my heart!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I dont belieb it!

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Then I saw her face

Now I'm a belieber

Not a trace

Of doubt in my mind

Now I'm a belieber

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, yeah, yeah

I'm a belieber

I'm a belieber

I'm a belieber

To lead back to topic, how does the DoS dragon chase hold up compared to the one in Shrek?

[Jay 37,338]

Musically you mean? Cause this is the thread for the score, not the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How does The Desolation of Smaug compare to How To Train A Dragon?

[Jay 37,338]

I prefer DOS. Never understand why the HTTYD score was soooooooooo hyped around here. I mean it's good, and I like it, but it was treated like the greatest thing since sliced bread....

[Jim Ware 526]

I prefer DOS. Never understand why the HTTYD score was soooooooooo hyped around here. I mean it's good, and I like it, but it was treated like the greatest thing since sliced bread....

Finally someone agrees with me!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Me too. I thought it was pretty good. Quite fun. Nothing more.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,000]

I've listened to complete album today again. Can't say I understand people (and there are quite a few of them) who say that the album is plagued with filler material. I can understand why someone might prefer a shorter presentation or that darker Howard Shore might not be everyone's cup of tea - those are valid points. The truth is there is always something going on, with themes up and running - this is as clear as musical storytelling goes. I could point out around 10 new themes after the first listen - can't see what's the problem here as well. And Shore in many ways is growing as a composer. Back in 2001-2003 his larger writing might have been a bit, shall we say, rougher. Less experience, perhaps. But now he has clearly learned, smoothed things down and there is certainly not a dull spot on this album. For me it actually feels much shorter than it is - there are a number of longer scores I can't take in one sitting.

Oh listened to Tracksounds podcast as well (thanks for sharing Incanus). Interesting explanation for the absence of Misty Mountains theme in the new film, as well as the reasons behind using a NZ orchestra this time and some other interesting tidbits.

Karol

[Jay 37,338]

I don't recall anyone on JWFan saying the score had filler material, maybe you are reading amazon comments or something?

I think it's a great score from start to finish, and there are not tracks I ever skip (apart from the song)... with AUJ there was a bunch of tracks I skipped often for a while.

I can't wait to hear that podcast!

[crocodile 8,000]

I didn't mean JWFan - there are other places out there and some other people I know. I keep reading/hearing the same thing all over again - "it's a letdown, no themes, just boring underscore". I was never that obsessed with The Lord of the Rings music, which was to my liking, but not the extent some people take it to. Some themes were better than the others, true, but, in terms of how Shore is handling this, the two new scores don't really strike me as weaker in any sense. And that's why I can't really see any gap in quality, to be honest.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Jason that DoS is a better album. It has a stronger narrative flow then AUJ has, the strongest since the FOTR OST I feel.

having said that is IT a very long release. And since a lot of Shore's themes and intentions don't immediately jump out at you I can see why some find it a chore.

[Jay 37,338]

Yup. As good as it is, it still drives home that the Standard OSTs should have been 1-disc affairs

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Also because having 2 hour OST's does lessen the chance of an eventual CR release after TABA, I think.

Having half an hour or 40 minutes missing per films doesn't make as strong a case as having 2 or 3 hours missing per film.

Plus the fact that these score don't have the popularity of the LOTR OST's (I think)

[KK 3,307]

This is why I still stand by the fact that it's very likely we won't be getting any CRs this time around. Maybe a Rarities Archives disc if Doug chooses to write a book.

[Jay 37,338]

He's been contracted to write a book, he said so on his blog ages ago, and bought the URL www.themusicofthehobbit.com/

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

He's been contracted to write a book, he said so on his blog ages ago, and bought the URL www.themusicofthehobbit.com/

But considering the site was taken down, are we still sure he's doing it?

This is why I still stand by the fact that it's very likely we won't be getting any CRs this time around. Maybe a Rarities Archives disc if Doug chooses to write a book.

Shut up!

Let's hope at least we'll get two/three discs with the unreleased music of the trilogy.

The truth bites, doesn't it?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A book doesn't automatically mean CR's though.

It's a positive sign nonetheless.

[KK 3,307]

That's what I keep pointing out. I'm pretty sure we'll be getting a book. But Doug can easily refer to the almost-complete Special Editions with just as comprehensive an account as the LotR book. The CRs aren't a neccessity for that to happen.

[crocodile 8,000]

In either case, Watertower is giving us a lot in any case. I mean, what other film score release gets this kind of treatment these days? Nearly complete and liner notes with notations? Amazingly generous.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Exactly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True, but we have been spoiler rotten by Reprise!

[Jay 37,338]

Still, I think there will be CRs. if a profit is to be made, WaterTower will be interested. I doubt Hobbit CRs would be a losing expenditure.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah, but complete and chronological Star Wars prequel releases would make a profit also, and they haven't happened.

We shall see.

[Jay 37,338]

WaterTower seems more willing to play ball than Sony/Lucasfilm.

Look at all the great WB releases LLL made happen this year

[Bilbo 3,709]

Still, I think there will be CRs. if a profit is to be made, WaterTower will be interested. I doubt Hobbit CRs would be a losing expenditure.

True and they can just limit the print run so that they're sure they can make enough to make a profit and have them sell out.

[Jay 37,338]

People forget that there are AT LEAST 50 minutes of music missing for AUJ, and that a book describing all the themes and nuances would be hard with some themes and ideas unreleased currently.

Plus we don't know yet how long TABA or it's OSTs will be, not to mention there could be new EE cues recorded for DOS and TABA! Just because that didn't happen with AUJ, doesn't mean it won't happen with DOS and TABA!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

WaterTower seems more willing to play ball than Sony/Lucasfilm.

Look at all the great WB releases LLL made happen this year

Yeah, much depends on the willingness of the company of getting this stuff released.

Like Paramount with their catalog of Trek scores.

[crocodile 8,000]

Maybe it would be better this time to release all three as one box.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

But Jason, so much of the missing material in AUJ are rescored alternates written probably at Jackson's request. It may not neccessarily be what Shore wanted for the picture, and he may not even want it released. Not to mention Doug would have a hard time explaining stuff like the Nazgul theme and the Gondor theme in his book (although I'm sure he'd pull it off quite eloquently).

And even if all that didn't matter, how would you arrange it on the album. "Radagast the Brown", then "Radagast the Brown (alternate)"? The CRs weren't designed in that fashion and were much easier to compile.

If anything, I think we might just get it all in one big "Rarities Archive"-like set with a bunch of the major alternates we want. At the very least, I'm sure we'll get the Flight to the Carrock music at some point.

Maybe it would be better this time to release all three as one box.

Karol

Doh! Karol, you got there before I did...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I hope so!

[Jay 37,338]

But Jason, so much of the missing material in AUJ are rescored alternates written probably at Jackson's request. It may not neccessarily be what Shore wanted for the picture, and he may not even want it released.

people always say that, but you people forget how much additional unreleased music there is in between the cues we have on the CDs - its NOT all just alternates that are unreleased! Plus as I mentioned, DOS and TABA could very well have additional music recorded, etc.

Have faith!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's the season for it!

[luke905 18]

Here is all the unreleased music I could spot on my first viewing (note that I only had listened to the album twice before seeing the film, and I still haven't heard the Special Edition album, so maybe some of the music listed below already appears on it):

[...]

- A Tauriel's theme statement when Legolas meets her as she's looking at Laketown.

[...]

Actually, it should be in Girion, Lord of Dale, from 1:30.

[tannhauser 101]

Some of Doug's comments in the Soundcast made it sound like CR's mightn't be on the cards. He was basically saying that he and Shore have been talking about ideas for the book, and they're toying with the possibility of analysing the soundtrack albums as opposed to the film versions. For me this would be a shame, as one of the things I enjoyed most about TMOTLOTRF was the narrative quality of the analysis and how it related to the film. But it seems that the AUJ album score is so different that such an approach would be describing an alternate cut of the film which we will never see.

[KK 3,307]

They'll probably be analyzing the soundtrack album in relation to the film events they were composed for. He just won't be analyzing the actual music heard in the film.