Jump to content
Issues with GMAIL - UPDATED ×
Issues with GMAIL - UPDATED

Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

gkgyver

By gkgyver
in Tolkien Central

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 7.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Doug Adams
Doug Adams

Shore wrote every note you'll hear, same as ever. He writes themes away from picture, then writes the actual compositions to picture. It's the same process he's always used. At the same time, he super

Doug Adams
Doug Adams

Yep, I was on my way out the door to visit the sessions NZ when the phone call came in telling me to unpack my bags. Later the following winter, Shore had me over to hear his full Kong score, but onl

TownerFan
TownerFan

All the people who work for these kind of big studio productions are obliged to Non-Disclosure Agreement, so it's perfectly understandable they cannot go into details. It's great that Conrad Pope is s

Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

The original order of scenes makes way more sense than the way they do in the final EE cut!

About that; I can't find the post where I might have laid this out before, so here it is now (possibly again)

Original order of scenes:
1. Gandalf Enters Dol Guldur, Thrain's hand on dagger at end
2. Bilbo spots the hidden door ("What do your keen eyes see?")
3. Thrain jumps on Gandalf, they fight, Gandalf heals him, Thrain remembers he has a son as we gracefully cut to:
4. The entire "On The Doorstep" sequence (Thrain's son climbing a statue of Thrain's father)
5. The "Last of the Seven" scene (Thrain tells Gandalf about Azog trying to cut off his finger for the ring), Thrain saying "No one must enter that mountain!" sets up nicely:
6. The "Courage of Hobbits" scene (Balin gets Bilbo to literally enter that mountain)
7. The palantir scene
8. The "Not at Home" scene (Bilbo enters Smaug's chamber, begins to look around)
9. Gandalf & Thrain run into orcs; Sauron kills Thrain and captures Ganfalf
10. Bilbo and Smaug meet ("Inside Information" track)
As you can see, the intent was to shuffle back and forth between Dol Goldur and Erebor the entire time (All the odd numbered scenes above are Dol Guldur, while the Erebor ones are the even ones)
The music reflects this, as when listened to in this order, the end of one cue sets up the next.
In the final EE, the Palantir scene was removed, so other stuff was shuffled around too
1. Gandalf Enters Dol Guldur, Thrain's hand on dagger at end
2. Bilbo spots the hidden door ("What do your keen eyes see?")
3. Thrain jumps on Gandalf, they fight, Gandalf heals him / SMASH CUT TO
5. The "Last of the Seven" scene (Thrain tells Gandalf about Azog trying to cut off his finger for the ring) / AWKWARD VOICEOVER LEADING TO
4. The entire "On The Doorstep" sequence
**BOFUR FINDING THE KINGSFOIL WAS STUPIDLY ADDED HERE***
6. The "Courage of Hobbits" scene (Balin gets Bilbo to enter Erebor)
9. Gandalf & Thrain run into orcs; Sauron kills Thrain and captured Ganfalf
8. The "Not at Home" scene (Bilbo enters Smaug's chamber, begins to look around)
10. Bilbo and Smaug meet ("Inside Information" track)
As you can see, it doesnt flow as nice, and we stay longer in each area instead of cutting back and forth.
Oh well
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

Oh SUH, you're so behind on information!

The second half of the BOFA SE OST track "Thrain" is Shore's score for the Palantir scene!

Watch BB's videos!! (and read the discussion in the thread!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

Doug claims the version of the palantir scene that Shore scored didn't involve a vision of Smaug leading armies. So we still don't know what was in the scene when Shore scored it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

Doug claims the version of the palantir scene that Shore scored didn't involve a vision of Smaug leading armies. So we still don't know what was in the scene when Shore scored it.

It could have been in very rough form without any special effects for the Palantír vision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

Yeah, though I think my suggestion is more likely.

Yeah PJ probably would have liked a wording like that.

It is unfortunate how this "not having to commit to anything until the last minute" mentality pervaded so much of the post production period of these films. LotR movies were not locked until very late and Shore toiled over the various changing cuts mercilessly but I think the "until the last minute" work got even more hectic and ridiculous with the Hobbit movies, more so with each passing film.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

It certainly feels like its own thing after the LotR quote heavy AUJ and retains its tone better than BotFA.

Btw just listening to "On the Doorstep" which is such an emotional but reservedly magnificent setpiece capturing the subtexts of the scene and the pivotal return home for the dwarven characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

Interesting that it's not scored with the House of Durin theme at all, only Erebor and Thorin.

Something I noticed right away and kept forgetting to bring up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

IIRC isn't House of Durin only used while in Lake-town, and then not again until Thorin & co enter the room with the dead dwarves?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

I think it really hones in on the significance of the kingly line of Durin as it is featured mostly in scenes involving emphasis on it like when Thorin talks to Fili and Kili before the company departs and then when Thrór's statue is seen (albeit being a rescore) and finally emotionally when the dead dwarves of their kingdom are seen for a more collective meaning of the family line of Durin, not just for the king and his heirs but all the dwarves of Erebor and then of course underscoring the fighting spirit of Thorin who is doing it all for his people when he attempts to battle Smaug.

But that is an interesting notion about On the Doorstep. I guess that is really Thorin's major moment and Erebor theme links so closely to his own theme then, not emphasizing Durin's line but the prince's personal journey. Erebor theme seems to be almost like the unending call for the Lonely Mountain, which drives him on and that path culminates in the mountainside when they find the door and step in. Musically a really beautiful moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

It would have made sense though in On The Doorstep, for the heirs of the throne returning to the mountain. (I posted this before you added the second paragraph)

Again it is all about the point of view they were going for and which emphasis they wanted to give it. You can approach it a lot of different ways. :)

I love the re-use of the Moon Runes music from AUJ in that scene

I love how Shore uses the "elven" musical language of high voices for the dwarven Erebor theme which is usually sturdy and solid and orchestral and the low orchestral voices of celli and basses for the usually very light elven music and combines the ideas of the two races as Elrond's advice and help is bearing fruit in the reading Thrór's map, not to mention more clearly connecting the moment to the Moon Runes reading in Rivendell of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

There's a fair few moments in the Hobbit trilogy that connect to earlier pieces that had only played once (including pieces from LOTR).

Oh, I think there's just the right amount.

I love how Shore uses the "elven" musical language of high voices for the dwarven Erebor theme which is usually sturdy and solid and orchestral and the low orchestral voices of celli and basses for the usually very light elven music and combines the ideas of the two races as Elrond's advice and help is bearing fruit in the reading Thrór's map, not to mention more clearly connecting the moment to the Moon Runes reading in Rivendell of course.

Ooooh, nice observation!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

Ah, I thought you were saying there wasn't enough of that.

I think he did just the right amount of turning single LOTR moments into TH themes, and turning single AUJ moments into DOS themes. The only one I don't like is him turning that single DOS moment of Bilbo with the barrels into a BOFA theme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

Does the suspense music for Bilbo irk you on both instances it is used in BotFA or just more in There and Back Again?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Faleel

Faleel 5,340

Posted
Posted

Also, I have got to say, this is more my private interpretation than actual fact and intention, but I have 100% convinced myself that the music for Gandalf and Bilbos conversation outside the eaves of Mirkwood is a twisted variant of Bilbo's theme.

Again this is just my private interpretation, don't try to argue it away from me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jay

Jay 37,287

Posted
Posted

Does the suspense music for Bilbo irk you on both instances it is used in BotFA or just more in There and Back Again?

The fact that it's reprised at all is what bothers me; It didn't strike me as a new THEME when it played in DOS, and I don't particularly like the new BOFA variations of it - something about the orchestration or the cadence / rhythm of them both bother me somehow. Mostly its just that Bilbo already had a wealth of themes by the mid-way point of AUJ, and I wish they had been used more through DOS and especially BOFA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Faleel

Faleel 5,340

Posted
Posted

Also, I have got to say, this is more my private interpretation than actual fact and intention, but I am now 100% convinced that music for Gandalf and Bilbos conversation outside the eaves of Mirkwood is a twisted variant of Bilbo's theme.

Again this is just my private interpretation, don't try to argue it away from me!

Which Bilbo theme?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

Does the suspense music for Bilbo irk you on both instances it is used in BotFA or just more in There and Back Again?

The fact that it's reprised at all is what bothers me; It didn't strike me as a new THEME when it played in DOS, and I don't particularly like the new BOFA variations of it - something about the orchestration or the cadence / rhythm of them both bother me somehow. Mostly its just that Bilbo already had a wealth of themes by the mid-way point of AUJ, and I wish they had been used more through DOS and especially BOFA.

Yeah it is a shame the full Bilbo theme arsenal was abandoned and he didn't really have any other "burglar" theme they could have used for him for his heroic moments when he takes charge of a situation and becomes a hero. Undoubtedly Shore could have easily whipped a suspenseful variation on any of his Bilbo themes up for BotFA.

Also, I have got to say, this is more my private interpretation than actual fact and intention, but I am now 100% convinced that music for Gandalf and Bilbos conversation outside the eaves of Mirkwood is a twisted variant of Bilbo's theme.

Again this is just my private interpretation, don't try to argue it away from me!

Which Bilbo theme?

Hmmm. I could almost buy that Fal. Interesting catch. I seem to remember Doug saying Shore used some of Bilbo's material rather subtly in the sequels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Faleel

Faleel 5,340

Posted
Posted

Does the suspense music for Bilbo irk you on both instances it is used in BotFA or just more in There and Back Again?

something about the orchestration or the cadence / rhythm of them both bother me somehow.

Too much like Pirates of the Caribbean?

1:08

2:29ish:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Incanus

Incanus 5,713

Posted
Posted

Also, I have got to say, this is more my private interpretation than actual fact and intention, but I am now 100% convinced that music for Gandalf and Bilbos conversation outside the eaves of Mirkwood is a twisted variant of Bilbo's theme.

Again this is just my private interpretation, don't try to argue it away from me!

Which Bilbo theme?

I can't see the similarity at all. The music for the Mirkwood scene is an initially descending line. What similarity do you hear? FYI that part of Bilbo's theme is the opening of Gandalf's theme!

Hey it could be Gandalf's theme then!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.

  I accept