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Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)


gkgyver

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I hate the album version of MDF by the way, especially the bit right at 1:24, it sounds too much like something from a amateur/fan score.

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Well, I wouldn't go as far as say that, but yeah, I prefer the film version.

I was talking about 1:37. to 1:58.

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Well, it just doesn't fit with the overall "feel" I'm trying to create with that edit. It's too epic, too serious compared to all the other stuff. I like the track, though.

You don't like epic in your Middle Earth scores? :blink:

Well, I wouldn't go as far as say that, but yeah, I prefer the film version.

I was talking about 1:37. to 1:58.

I always wondered what was meant to go with that.

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I was talking about 1:37. to 1:58.

I always wondered what was meant to go with that.

As I've said in one of my previous posts, I'm pretty much convinced it was for another edit of the prologue sequence, where we would have gone from The Hobbit title card directly to the shot of the Middle-Earth map, then zooming to Erebor (like the one we see in the film), and this little bit was supposed to underscore that shot.

I somehow doubt that the first cut of the prologue would have transitioned to Erebor before Bilbo's introduction as his tale forms the frame story. I think it is just an edit made for the album omitting a bridging passage for the map sequence and that glinting little passage is for the original (shorter) establishing shot of Dale.

As for the My Dear Frodo I really love the larger grander style it is written in as it should be, much in the same way as the Prologue of LotR that explains the bigger backdrop of the current story. It might be more expansive and bigger but that is because this ancient history is bigger than the hobbit in his hole at the beginning of Bilbo's adventure. PJ's intentions of showing these greater undercurrents behind the smaller (relatively of course) story is something I think he has succeeded in very well and Shore does the same with his music. It music from another time and place that then transitions back to the "ordinary", a perfect musical flashback.

A nice single disc edit of the material BloodBoal. I might compile similar playlist to hear how that works out for me even though I love the Radagast music and am loath to part with it (the same doesn't go for the character in the film though).

I took another listen of the score during the weekend and I have to say it was a wonderful experience from start to finish, one of the rare absolutely fulfilling listening experiences of a relatively recent score I have had in a good while.

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As I've said in one of my previous posts, I'm pretty much convinced it was for another edit of the prologue sequence, where we would have gone from The Hobbit title card directly to the shot of the Middle-Earth map, then zooming to Erebor (like the one we see in the film), and this little bit was supposed to underscore that shot.

I somehow doubt that the first cut of the prologue would have transitioned to Erebor before Bilbo's introduction as his tale forms the frame story. I think it is just an edit made for the album omitting a bridging passage for the map sequence and that glinting little passage is for the original (shorter) establishing shot of Dale.

Have we seen the same film? It's not about Bilbo at all.

I meant that Bilbo introduces the back story of Erebor and his own adventure at the beginning of the film, which is the framestory to the whole Hobbit film trilogy. There of course could be a whole different cut of the film as you suggest but I am almost certain PJ always started the film with old Bilbo at Bag End.

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When I met him in 2010, he looked more or less the same as he did in all the LOTR documentaries / bonus features, etc.

But this pic... wow. I wonder if scoring AUJ was even more stressful than has been made public, or if something else is going on.

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That's a really creepy smile btw.

Perhaps the AUJ scoring process has really taken its toll on him.

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Or Peter Jackson.... Or Azog....

I guess he feels relieved he can give the fans what they wanted

Fans wanted an orc with a hook? Bunnies Of Doom? Dwarves with axes stuck in their skull?

^This. I waited years for The Hobbit and while I did get a couple of the things I wanted out of it, it was really only worth it for Howard Shore's score.

he's trying to make good films though which is why he's changes some things to try and make it dramatic.

But why does it need to be dramatic? Can't lighthearted films be good?

I agree, though I do understand SafeUnderHill's point when he says:

If there is not tension in the film I really don't think it would work, I'm not saying the tension was done right but I do believe it is necessary to have.

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  • 2 weeks later...

AWESOME

1073117_10151750050411558_1501394758_o.j
Music spotting with Howard Shore
Midday. We're shifting from K Stage to F Stage right now, and I took the chance to spot music with Howard Shore. He's in New York, and busy writing the score for Film 2.
"Spotting" involves talking through edited scenes with Howard, and figuring out everything he needs to do a first pass at the music composition - where music should start and stop, what mood it should have, themes to use, moments to punctuate. That type of thing. To stay on schedule, Howard needs 10 mins of cut footage every week. This week we only have 3 & a half mins for him. Fortunately, he's very good natured about it. It's happened once or twice before!
Next week, when I'm back in the cutting room full time, Howard will be getting a deluge!
The score for Film 2 is going to be terrific. Last year, we were a little frustrated because we had to revisit so many of the LotR themes - The Shire, Rivendell, Galadriel, Gollum, and the Ring - we did this because I'm wanting these 3 Hobbit movies to have great unity with the Rings films in design, wardrobe, story and music, so it meant "An Unexpected Journey" had to acknowledge what had gone before.
But this time around, apart from a couple of Ring moments, it's all new: Beorn, Mirkwood, The Woodland Realm, Laketown, Bard and Smaug all give Howard the chance to write brand new themes, and he's knocking it out of the park!
We've now finished yesterday's work, and can start on today's scenes!
Better race back to set before Caro tells me off! More than she already has ....

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151750050411558&set=a.10150238899061558.364437.141884481557&type=1&theater

Can't wait to hear all those new themes!

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So now we know in the current edit, the dwarves are in the barrels 14 seconds into reel 4

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Awesome news! And as expected Shore is now free to roam around in totally new musical areas. As you said Jason I also can't wait to hear the new material.

Funny how the music of LotR was such a troublesome or frustrating aspect of the first film, music-wise, although it is clearly audible in the finished score. It would say Shore did know what to do with all the old themes, PJ didn't.

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Its obvious the use of old themes was something PJ and The Howe has a difference in viewpoint on.

On the CD, the Hobbiton scenes are the only ones where Shore leans on his old stuff.

Yes Shore's interpretations of the old material on the CDs (outside the Shire and Rivendell) are really musical hints that reference yet do not so heavily emphasize the known themes, meaning that he is not overly anxious to make them sound so familiar or exactly copying their previous renditions. Especially the later Hobbit and Gollum material and the History of the Ring Theme are used in very interesting settings on the album but in the film we get the static formal versions heard in LotR.

Only place where I actually approve of PJs point of view is the Eagle rescue, where the Nature's Reclamation is used instead of Shore's original (as beautiful as it is) concept. The earlier rendition when Gandalf summons the moth kind of demands a musical resolution and the grand version is from musical storytelling point of view a more satisfying solution in my opinion. It is rather unfortunate that Shore had to follow the contour of the temp track Forth Eorlingas/Theoden Rides Forth so closely it bleeds through into the music a bit.

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Legolas didnt have a theme in LOTR right? I wonder what they will re-use for him?

No he didn't have a theme. I am hoping they keep their paws off the "Fellowship Theme" switch and use the Woodland Realm material for him and Tauriel. I also hope there is no need to make musical references to Legolas from LotR in any way.

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He already confirmed the Ring theme will be used, didn't he? I wouldn't expect them to completely abandon material (Elf themes, for example), but a fresh stuff should take now center stage.

Karol

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He already confirmed the Ring theme will be used, didn't he? I wouldn't expect them to completely abandon material (Elf themes, for example), but a fresh stuff should take now center stage.

Karol

The old Elven themes might pop up if Elrond and Galadriel appear again but the Mirkwood Elves are completely different culture than Lothlorien or Rivendell and I am excited that Shore gets to address this in his new score. We heard just the briefest choral glimpse of their possible music in the prologue of AUJ.

But the mentioned ideas for Beorn, Laketown ect. sound exciting and something we were almost automatically expecting after LotR, at least those of us who have read the book, since Shore's approach is so intricate and leitmotif oriented. :)

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I'd be reassured in the AUJ: EE if we heard a couple of variations of the full Baggins-Took theme. One of my biggest complaints was the use of the Shire theme in place of it during the Bullroarer Took discussion. We know one should play in the meeting between Elrond and Bilbo, and it's possible we might hear some variation in the fireworks flashback or the Marketplace scene. If we just hear Shire variations again I'll be perturbed. But seeing PJ address this issue at least partially is definitely encouraging.

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I'd be reassured in the AUJ: EE if we heard a couple of variations of the full Baggins-Took theme. One of my biggest complaints was the use of the Shire theme in place of it during the Bullroarer Took discussion. We know one should play in the meeting between Elrond and Bilbo, and it's possible we might hear some variation in the fireworks flashback or the Marketplace scene. If we just hear Shire variations again I'll be perturbed. But seeing PJ address this issue at least partially is definitely encouraging.

Yes the near disappearance of Bilbo's new themes from the score was disheartening but I still can't quite understand why the older thematic material would have been a burden as PJ feels. I would say it was a blessing when used wisely as Shore has done, opening with the popular and hummable and recognizable Shire material to draw us into the world once again and then inserting suitable quotes of the past themes as he goes along. I do understand the artistic urge to create something new and explore new avenues of expression but if they really wanted to make the Hobbit scores part of the musical world of LotR universe then using the older themes was rather a given. Perhaps this predictability or obligation was thought as frustrating.

But I guess what SafeUnderHill says about the way PJ looks at the films, like an audience member, really hones in on the reasons why many near note-for-note quotes of old themes were inserted into the film late in the game. Formal and static versions are recognizable and evoke even in a casual movie goes some memory the rather intelligently and often subtly implemented variations heard on the OST might not.

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To stay on schedule, Howard needs 10 mins of cut footage every week. This week we only have 3 & a half mins for him.

I see it's a good start...

I got the impression that has been going on for a bit?

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