Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Lewya 360]

I guess I am the only one who thinks of the "percussion" in "The Hornburg" from TTT at that moment in 'The Hunters' cue

Around 0.55 and forward.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jilal 569]

Oh yea, Smaug clearly has two distinct themes. I don't know what Doug's official names will be, but I've been calling them Smaug's Angry Theme and Smaug's Seductive Theme.

Wasn't the version in AUJ's prologue an inversion? That would mean they actually are one theme.

[Jay 37,352]

Oh yea, Smaug clearly has two distinct themes. I don't know what Doug's official names will be, but I've been calling them Smaug's Angry Theme and Smaug's Seductive Theme.

I suppose the Angry Theme is the one heard during his attack on Dale and Erebor, and the Seductive Theme is the inverted variation heard in Axe Or Sword?

Correct.

Or is there a new theme in DOS?

Well, there's a new rhythm accompaniment that shows up at the end of the score (it closes In The Shadow of the Mountain, and opens A Liar and a Thief for two examples of it), but I dunno if it's right to call that a full-fledged "theme" or not.... Doug?

[Jilal 569]

Smaug's inverted theme is a deliberate reference to the Necromancer's theme, by the way. So I think Smaug's inverted theme is used to depict Smaug's alliance - I'm not sure if that is the right word - with Sauron, which would explain why it's used for the attack on Dale.

What's interesting is the appearance of Sauron's theme in A Spell of Concealment. I think this will be used to score an outburst of Smaug - or perhaps it has something to do with the Necromancer directly, seeing as Gandalf's theme is quoted earlier as well. The title suggests me it has something to do with Erebor, though.

[Jay 37,352]

Wha? His "inverted" theme (the one I call the Seductive Theme) is only heard in AUJ in Axe or Sword, when he's mentioned. The attack on Dale is scored with his "main" theme (the one I call his Angry Theme).

A Spell of Concealment refers Gandalf gaining entrance to Dol Guldur, it has nothing to do with Erebor. The march at the end set to Sauron's theme is for his army marching out, that shot we've seen in the trailers.

[Jilal 569]

Wha? His "inverted" theme (the one I call the Seductive Theme) is only heard in AUJ in Axe or Sword, when he's mentioned. The attack on Dale is scored with his "main" theme (the one I call his Angry Theme).

A Spell of Concealment refers to Dol Guldur, not Erebor

Never mind. I thought the inverted one was the angry theme. Thanks for the heads-up.

P.S. What do you guys think of The Forest River? I think it contains a lot of very cool action material, but a bit too much for one track. The pace and atmosphere is constantly shifting. AUJ's action writing feels more consistent to me.

[aj_vader 534]

Really can't wait to see this army flood out of Dol Guldor where this Spell of Concealment cue appears (Minas Morgul quote)

Does anyone have the 3. A Necromancer track?

[gkgyver 1,645]

Thou shall not ask for pirated material here!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I feel so friggin' left out with only these 90 second samples. Look at what the internet has done to my patience!

[Jay 37,352]

P.S. What do you guys think of The Forest River? I think it contains a lot of very cool action material, but a bit too much for one track. The pace and atmosphere is constantly shifting. AUJ's action writing feels more consistent to me.

It is a bit overwhelming at first for sure, but upon repeated listens I've come to really like it a lot, all the way through. I can't imagine how manic the scene in the film must be!

Remember, this scene was scripted and shot to be the climax of Film 1 when there was only 2 films, so it's not surprising the music is appropriately cranked up to 11

[crocodile 8,006]

Dude, all of that is greek to me. I don't even know what a perfect fifth is.

Ha! I do.

Karol

[Lewya 360]

Shore might turn up on the red carpet in ~4 hours at the world premiere.

Apparently it says "Watch red carpet coverage with Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage, Benedict Cumberbatch, Evangeline Lilly, Luke Evans, Orlando Bloom, Stephen Fry, Dean O'Gorman, Aidan Turner, William Kircher, Manu Bennett, John Bell, Ryan Gage, composer Howard Shore, writer/producers Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens and writer/producer/director Peter Jackson." under the clip, thanks to Once who noticed it.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Must be quite an experience for Shore.

To hear half his score replaced in front of an audience, I mean

[crocodile 8,006]

Yeah, he's still better off than Alex North, though. Now that premiere must have been memorable for the composer.

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Calling Smaug's inverted theme his "seductive" theme is spot on. Hawt.

[Jay 37,352]

Thanks

[gkgyver 1,645]

His seductive theme does appear in AUJ though, listen to My Dear Frodo, 5:59-6:06. It's just once, but there it is.

[Jay 37,352]

I don't hear it there. It's in Axe Or Sword.

[gkgyver 1,645]

That too.

I'm actually reminded of Lily's Theme from Deathly Hallows in the last strains of Beyond The Forest.

[KK 3,307]

His seductive theme does appear in AUJ though, listen to My Dear Frodo, 5:59-6:06. It's just once, but there it is.

You're right. Good catch.

It's brilliant how Shore manipulates Smaug's Theme and its inversion. At times, he just uses the two chords (in either inverted form or the regular one), constantly pulsating as if the dragon is heaving like a furnace (as Doug eloquently put it).

P.S. What do you guys think of The Forest River? I think it contains a lot of very cool action material, but a bit too much for one track. The pace and atmosphere is constantly shifting. AUJ's action writing feels more consistent to me.

I think it might be one of the best action cues in all of the Middle-Earth scores. It is truly fantastic and about as swashbuckling as Shore's music has gotten.

Shore might turn up on the red carpet in ~4 hours at the world premiere.

Apparently it says "Watch red carpet coverage with Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage, Benedict Cumberbatch, Evangeline Lilly, Luke Evans, Orlando Bloom, Stephen Fry, Dean O'Gorman, Aidan Turner, William Kircher, Manu Bennett, John Bell, Ryan Gage, composer Howard Shore, writer/producers Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens and writer/producer/director Peter Jackson." under the clip, thanks to Once who noticed it.

No Shore interview, but you can see him with Peter and the crew taking a picture at the end.

[gkgyver 1,645]

A Spell Of Concealment is probably for Gandalf finding Thrain in Dol Guldur, at least that's what I think the "Durin theme" is for in there, followed by Gandalf fighting ... something.

[Incanus 5,714]

A Spell Of Concealment is probably for Gandalf finding Thrain in Dol Guldur, at least that's what I think the "Durin theme" is for in there, followed by Gandalf fighting ... something.

My theory is that it plays when Gandalf at Dol Guldur makes the discovery that Sauron has been hiding and gathering his armies in secret (i.e. under a spell of concealment) and is now ready to unleash them. Unless it underscores some kind of encounter between Gandalf and Necromancer. But I think the first theory is a closer to the truth given the reprise of the "Mordor marches to war" variation of Evil of the Ring theme present in the track.

[KK 3,307]

I haven't looked at it closely, but maybe the boy soprano in High Fells is related to Gandalf's secondary theme?

[Incanus 5,714]

I haven't looked at it closely, but maybe the boy soprano in High Fells is related to Gandalf's secondary theme?

It would be a strange compression of the melodic line of the theme and without the second phrase. I have to listen to it more closely when I get back home tonight. But that is an interesting notion none the less KK.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It totally is actually. The first seven pitches of the original are there exactly. That's awesome.

[Incanus 5,714]

It totally is actually. The first seven pitches of the original are there exactly. That's awesome.

Well partly awesome in my opinion. Shore wastes a perfectly beautiful second part of the melody there.

But it is certainly a great subtle thematic nod.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I agree, but it's also a really fascinating, unique incarnation of Gandalf related music. Chilling, foreboding... suits the scene(s?) it will appear in perfectly.

[Incanus 5,714]

Well the story takes Gandalf to very dangerous and eerie places so it would make sense for his music to transform as well.

Doug you are free to hint at any time if we are on the right track!

[Lewya 360]

Shore might turn up on the red carpet in ~4 hours at the world premiere.

Apparently it says "Watch red carpet coverage with Martin Freeman, Richard Armitage, Benedict Cumberbatch, Evangeline Lilly, Luke Evans, Orlando Bloom, Stephen Fry, Dean O'Gorman, Aidan Turner, William Kircher, Manu Bennett, John Bell, Ryan Gage, composer Howard Shore, writer/producers Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens and writer/producer/director Peter Jackson." under the clip, thanks to Once who noticed it.

No Shore interview, but you can see him with Peter and the crew taking a picture at the end.

Omg, I thought you were right, but I jumped in that clip and there is A SHORE INTERVIEW!

It starts at 48.31

&feature=share&t=48m31s

Not long though

[Incanus 5,714]

Was he asked "So you did the music for this film and the previous ones as well?"

And Shore says "Well yes..."

And then they switch to another interviewee, who has more star power to him/her?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Rather pointless, but nice to see him there nonetheless. Let's just hope he heard what he wanted to hear...

[tannhauser 101]

Well he certainly looks healthier than he did in that WQXR interview

[BloodBoal 7,538]

He still hasn't shaved, though.

[Jilal 569]

P.S. What do you guys think of The Forest River? I think it contains a lot of very cool action material, but a bit too much for one track. The pace and atmosphere is constantly shifting. AUJ's action writing feels more consistent to me.

It is a bit overwhelming at first for sure, but upon repeated listens I've come to really like it a lot, all the way through. I can't imagine how manic the scene in the film must be!

Remember, this scene was scripted and shot to be the climax of Film 1 when there was only 2 films, so it's not surprising the music is appropriately cranked up to 11

Yes, I don't think you can solely blame the composer for the pace or amount of ideas of a cue - naturally, the music depends on the composer, but the pace of the film plays a big part as well. As you say, it foreshadows the mania of that scene in the film.

[Incanus 5,714]

P.S. What do you guys think of The Forest River? I think it contains a lot of very cool action material, but a bit too much for one track. The pace and atmosphere is constantly shifting. AUJ's action writing feels more consistent to me.

It is a bit overwhelming at first for sure, but upon repeated listens I've come to really like it a lot, all the way through. I can't imagine how manic the scene in the film must be!

Remember, this scene was scripted and shot to be the climax of Film 1 when there was only 2 films, so it's not surprising the music is appropriately cranked up to 11

Yes, I don't think you can solely blame the composer for the pace or amount of ideas of a cue - naturally, the music depends on the composer, but the pace of the film plays a big part as well. As you say, it foreshadows the mania of that scene in the film.

Judging by that track the scene switches gears quite a few times.

[aj_vader 534]

I was really hoping for a big Sauron Theme Statement in The Desolation of Smaug Score, was hoping to get like a new arrangement of it, but the Minas Morgul (ROTK-OST) or Coronal of Silver and Gold (ROTK-CR) cue/reference is a great performance of it in A Spell of Concealment.

[Jay 37,352]

Well, there are new arrangements of Sauron's theme throughout AUJ and DOS, they are just not big and grand. Surely that is being saved for TABA. And yes the big statement in A Spell of Concealment is great! (And it's not identical to Minas Morgul/Coronal of Silver and Gold like some people say)

[gkgyver 1,645]

He still hasn't shaved, though.

A spell of concealment.

[Incanus 5,714]

Well, there are new arrangements of Sauron's theme throughout AUJ and DOS, they are just not big and grand. Surely that is being saved for TABA. And yes the big statement in A Spell of Concealment is great! (And it's not identical to Minas Morgul/Coronal of Silver and Gold like some people say)

Well in all honesty in my opinion it is quite similar than the variation heard in RotK although it has been a bit tweaked here and there and finishes quite differently. But it is a tight rope walk between the director's wishes and what is familiar and effective and what is entirely new in this music.

[Jay 37,352]

Of course it's similar, I'm just saying it's not identical, is all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It sounded like Minas Morgul tweaked a bit

[Jay 37,352]

Yes, we've all said that already....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good good.

So what are we talking about?

[aj_vader 534]

Well, there are new arrangements of Sauron's theme throughout AUJ and DOS, they are just not big and grand. Surely that is being saved for TABA. And yes the big statement in A Spell of Concealment is great! (And it's not identical to Minas Morgul/Coronal of Silver and Gold like some people say)

oh yeah definatley, its more a homage or nod to the piece than "Identical"

[KK 3,307]

It's probably for a scene where Jackson will once again try to draw parallels to the cherished moments in the original trilogy. I hope those "nostalgic nods" in the film aren't too intrusive.

[Lewya 360]

Spell of Concealment spoiler:

He strikes the ground with his staff which emits a bubble of energy which reveals that which is hidden (Azog and his cronies)

[crocodile 8,006]

Well, there are new arrangements of Sauron's theme throughout AUJ and DOS, they are just not big and grand. Surely that is being saved for TABA. And yes the big statement in A Spell of Concealment is great! (And it's not identical to Minas Morgul/Coronal of Silver and Gold like some people say)

Well in all honesty in my opinion it is quite similar than the variation heard in RotK although it has been a bit tweaked here and there and finishes quite differently. But it is a tight rope walk between the director's wishes and what is familiar and effective and what is entirely new in this music.

It's also worth noting Sauron's theme doesn't resolve quite the same way as in the LOTR trilogy. It still tries to find it's resolution and ends on a musical question mark.

Karol

[Incanus 5,714]

Well, there are new arrangements of Sauron's theme throughout AUJ and DOS, they are just not big and grand. Surely that is being saved for TABA. And yes the big statement in A Spell of Concealment is great! (And it's not identical to Minas Morgul/Coronal of Silver and Gold like some people say)

Well in all honesty in my opinion it is quite similar than the variation heard in RotK although it has been a bit tweaked here and there and finishes quite differently. But it is a tight rope walk between the director's wishes and what is familiar and effective and what is entirely new in this music.

It's also worth noting Sauron's theme doesn't resolve quite the same way as in the LOTR trilogy. It still tries to find it's resolution and ends on a musical question mark.

Karol

Yeap! That's my observation as well. Shore is gradually building it towards the final version it will have in LotR.