FILM: Man Of Steel

[crocodile 7,982]

Like Inception, then?

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

But didn't almost everyone universally applaud that movie? It is a cinematic luvvie through and through. Hardly marmite!

[crocodile 7,982]

Nah, it got more good reviews and better box office results. But it is the film that spawned an ever increasing Nolanophobe crowd.

Karol

[Quintus 5,399]

Don't play your beloved down Karol: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/inception/?nopopup=true

[crocodile 7,982]

Yes, I know. But I was mostly referring to the fact it received very polarizing reactions. "Exhilarating and soul nourishing" versus the "jibberish overwrought pretentious crap", not the RT percentage itself.

It's not like The Avengers, where most loved it, few people said meh, but no one ever really had a go at it.

Especially in the case of Man of Steel it's one way or the other.

Karol

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

And I don't quite understand why this film qualifies as an "adult superhero film".

The subtext, imagery, and humanity on display - plus it's made be a real auteur. Nolan's BATMAN trilogy is utterly juvenile in comparison.

That better be sarcasm.

Not at all. Nolan's films were just trendily nihilistic in an adolescent way, with no real spirituality, insight or depth of feeling. If Schumacher's films were aimed at 6 year olds, Nolan's were for 16 year old American males.

Where was the real nihilism outside of Joker's speeches?

Inside Chris Nolan's skull.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes, I know. But I was mostly referring to the fact it received very polarizing reactions. "Exhilarating and soul nourishing" versus the "jibberish overwrought pretentious crap", not the RT percentage itself.

It's not like The Avengers, where most loved it, few people said meh, but no one ever really had a go at it.

Especially in the case of Man of Steel it's one way or the other.

Karol

Nobody cared beforehand about The Avengers. There was no ill will. Superman has fanboys and nostalgia baggage, which was always gonna bring on the internet vitriol. At the end of the day they're not dissimilar movies, so I just find it to be a load of double standard bs, which warms my heart.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Why do you think so many people responded badly to Man of Steel? Because it can't be only nostalgia.

Karol

You've brought up some interesting points. Not a single person that I know in person, outside the internet, liked the film. Not one. I don't know if nostalgia is the sole reason. If asked almost everyone thought Henry Cavill was quite good, as was Kevin Costner. Amy Adams and Russell Crowe didn't fare as well. Everyone seems to like Diane Lane but collectively they all state boy that film made her look awful.

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought you said Dave enjoyed it?

Everyone seems to like Diane Lane but collectively they all state boy that film made her look awful.

I didn't think that at all. She looked right for the role. Maybe this is just an American thing, or a gay circles thing - to bitch about women's looks in movies. It's something you do a lot.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I thought you said Dave enjoyed it?

Everyone seems to like Diane Lane but collectively they all state boy that film made her look awful.

I didn't think that at all. She looked right for the role. Maybe this is just an American thing, or a gay circles thing - to bitch about women's looks in movies. It's something you do a lot.

really you bring up gay, most of those comments about lane were female commets definately not gay. For the record Lee, most of the people I know in the real world are as straight as you claim to be.

Dave said he doesn't care to see it again, even on blu.

[Quintus 5,399]

So it's an American thing then. To bitch about middle-aged actresses in film. Dames Judi and Helen were lucky to be born British otherwise they would be sharing the same success Sharon Stone is now.

And it's okay that you're playing Dave's opinion down now, I understand

[JoeinAR 1,949]

he's the one who said that the other day, Not playing it down a bit. He's also the one who turned to me to say that Superman would never do that when he killed Zod at the same time as my mom. Of course Superman being an American Thing, we tended to notice odd behavior in a beloved character

Also it's unfair to put Sharon Stone who is 54 versus Helen Mirrin who is 65, and Judi Dench who is 79 in the same category.

[Jay 37,280]

Judi Dench is that old? Holy crap!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

yeah but she's still got chops.

[Quintus 5,399]

Which means that by the time Sharon Stone is that old she'll be working in a chicken factory.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Sharon has 7 or 8 projects to be released soon. Don't sell her short.

[Quintus 5,399]

Hey, I'd LOVE to see Shazzer make a comeback.

She was awesome in her day, probably the quintessential blonde femme fatale of my generation.

[KK 3,307]

Why do you think so many people responded badly to Man of Steel? Because it can't be only nostalgia.

Karol

You've brought up some interesting points. Not a single person that I know in person, outside the internet, liked the film. Not one. I don't know if nostalgia is the sole reason. If asked almost everyone thought Henry Cavill was quite good, as was Kevin Costner. Amy Adams and Russell Crowe didn't fare as well. Everyone seems to like Diane Lane but collectively they all state boy that film made her look awful.

Yeah, I was slightly surprised by how many of my friends really disliked the movie. Some of these people would like anything they watched but were ultimately turned off by the lack of characterization and charm and the overdose of action.

[Delorean90 42]

And I don't quite understand why this film qualifies as an "adult superhero film".

The subtext, imagery, and humanity on display - plus it's made be a real auteur. Nolan's BATMAN trilogy is utterly juvenile in comparison.

That better be sarcasm.

Not at all. Nolan's films were just trendily nihilistic in an adolescent way, with no real spirituality, insight or depth of feeling. If Schumacher's films were aimed at 6 year olds, Nolan's were for 16 year old American males.

Where was the real nihilism outside of Joker's speeches?

Inside Chris Nolan's skull.

Come on, now, can't we be constructive here? I'm really trying to follow this. TDK is the only of the films where I see any kind of nihilism represented in a strong way. Begins is chock full of idealism, and I thought that TDKR didn't have quite the same following amongst the sort of adolescent audience you speak of because it lacked the kind of teenage ear-tickling that the Joker offered in the previous installment.

Really, I see a very interesting growth arc in the trilogy. Begins has the idealism of youth, then TDK presents the adolescent confrontations with overwhelming evil, leading to a need to overcome the resultant apathy and despair in TDKR, ultimately embracing life. In what way do you see this nihilism (and I agree that the trendy nihilism I think you're talking about is disturbing and obnoxious) as the reigning theme of the trilogy as a whole?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

In what way do you see this nihilism (and I agree that the trendy nihilism I think you're talking about is disturbing and obnoxious) as the reigning theme of the trilogy as a whole?

Nothing to do with thematics. It's mostly down to something as equally (if not more) important - Chris Nolan's dispassionate, anti-romantic, cynical, clinical, pseudo-Kubrickian (by way of Fincher and Mann) direction. He has no personal identification with Batman/Bruce Wayne (as Tim Burton did, by amping up the eccentric loner side) and manipulates the players in his films with all the artistic conviction and sensitivity of a chess player. He's borderline autistic and is more interested in objects/systems than people, case in point with INCEPTION - where's Cobb's past trauma is sidelined by all the pointless-as-fuck M. C. Escher puzzles. The premise of INTERSTELLAR fits into this to a t.

For some that's enough, but I like humour, sex (or sensuality) and insight.

[crocodile 7,982]

So you actually find humour, sex and insight in Man of Steel then?

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I did!

[Quintus 5,399]

Thrice as much as I did in any of the Dark Knight movies at that.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Thrice as much as I did in any of the Dark Knight movies at that.

Yep.

It's all relative.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Relative to what?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

To each film, sukkel!

[Brónach 1,301]

Humour is fine, sex I don't particularly need in a film unless needed.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I've yet to find a more touching, revealing, painful, or more human subject than sex.

[Brónach 1,301]

Heheh, you're one of those.

I wrote my current focus character as an asexual person on purpose.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Heheh, you're one of those.

You calling me a Tiger Woods? For that I'll have to spank you.

[Quintus 5,399]

Cult YouTuber Angry Joe needs to CALM THE HELL DOWN a bit and reign in the rambling even more, but he does at least get the new Superman. The excitable but sorta infectious young chap is right about a lot of things (the same things others mistakenly reject, or fail to comprehend).

[Brónach 1,301]

FILM CRITIC HULK EXPLAINS THE IMPORTANCE OF DRAMATIZING CHARACTER IN A VERY LONG ARTICLE ABOUT MAN OF STEEL

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

FILM CRITIC HULK EXPLAINS THE IMPORTANCE OF DRAMATIZING CHARACTER IN A VERY LONG ARTICLE ABOUT MAN OF STEEL

Christ. What a longwinded, self-important bore.

[Quintus 5,399]

Lol there's no way I'm reading that sermon.

[Brónach 1,301]

Sometimes he's got a point, but sometimes he does need to learn to synthesize a bit. The pace of his posts tends to be off.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Odd, like Zimmer's score.

[Delorean90 42]

I thought he made/makes a lot of good points. Not all of them are ironclad, but my ambivalence toward the film made a lot more sense after reading it.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

How long is that "review" (using that term loosely)? 4 billion characters? Fuck me.

Odd, like Zimmer's score.

That's the joy of syncopation!

[Delorean90 42]

I don't think he claims it to be a review. He writes essays on film/drama/narrative; in this case he used MOS as an example of the issues he was talking about. It connects back to a recent essay he wrote for BAD that talked about convolution in blockbusters. Perhaps the problem is that you're thinking of it as a review. I trust you wouldn't have any trouble reading a lengthy article/essay if you were approaching it as such.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

If it was well written and not in all caps.

[Delorean90 42]

He's explained this here, answering the third question.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/8/3611344/film-crit-hulk-interview

[Brónach 1,301]

He doesn't really do reviews. Although some of his articles function partially as one.

I didn't like the all caps at first, but then it turned out it was quite easy to read that way, like an Alan Moore script ot something.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I thought he made/makes a lot of good points. Not all of them are ironclad, but my ambivalence toward the film made a lot more sense after reading it.

You need someone else to explain to you why you had issues with the film?

[Quintus 5,399]

Weak, or unconfident minds like to feel guided and vindicated by others were trends are concerned, Steef.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Do these people also need to be told why they love their wives?

[Quintus 5,399]

Doubtful. Probably the exact opposite.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Their wives tell them???

[Quintus 5,399]

No.They know too well how much they love their wives.

WTF are we talking about again?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No idea.

[Quintus 5,399]

It was something about nut allergies I think.