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Avatar 2, 3 and 4 or how James Cameron stopped worrying and pulled The Hobbit on us


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This takes out the fun of being a director, doesn't it? You no longer capture the atmosphere, the mood, the light and interaction the characters have with the set. It's all done afterwards by computer wizards.

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Avatar by any measure or metric you want to use was an animated film.

 

Little was "shot". 

 

The Avatar series are animated films. They are no different from Pixar films which are also made almost entirely inside a computer.

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There is some human footage. They were all shot in blue rooms and then inserted into the animated picture.

 

But humans can be CGI too absolutely. A lot of stunts you see these days are done by CGI doubles - not even stuntmen. 

 

I mean if they can fucking create performances of dead people by CGI in Star Wars - nothing is off the table right.

 

So it is a pertinent question, with such advances in CGI and so much CGI, you never quite even know if something was shot with actual humans.

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7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Avatar by any measure or metric you want to use was an animated film.

 

Little was "shot". 

 

The Avatar series are animated films. They are no different from Pixar films which are also made almost entirely inside a computer.

By that logic you could call any CGI heavy film “animated.”

 

Gravity had no real sets either. 

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8 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

By that logic you could call any CGI heavy film “animated.”

 

Gravity had no real sets either. 

 

The Academy has the following definition - "In an animated film, animation must figure in no less than 75 percent of the picture’s running time."

 

So yes, per the Academy's own definition - Gravity would qualify too. Of course the studios would never submit them for the animated category as it is considered a kiddie ghetto - but if they were to submit, they would qualify. 

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14 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The Avatar series are animated films. They are no different from Pixar films which are also made almost entirely inside a computer.

You've only seen one of the Avatar movies!

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7 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

You've only seen one of the Avatar movies!


don’t need to see them to call them animated. Others will have more animation than the original not less. It’s a function of time, everything has more cgi than 10 years ago.

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56 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Err, no. It’s terrible. The score is great, though. 

 

Maybe it was Shyamalan himself who said it.

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23 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Avatar by any measure or metric you want to use was an animated film.

 

Little was "shot". 

 

The Avatar series are animated films. They are no different from Pixar films which are also made almost entirely inside a computer.

Absofrigginglutely!

I do not understand how AVATAR was Oscar-nominated for Best Cinematography.

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9 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Absofrigginglutely!

I do not understand how AVATAR was Oscar-nominated for Best Cinematography.

 

I don't so much mind Avatar being included as animated films being excluded.

 

But case in point - from 2009 to 2013 - the same 5 films won both cinematography and VFX oscar. Co-incidence? Or the same achievement being rewarded twice?

 

They slightly correct course after that but again from 2017-2019, 2 films won both cinematography and vfx.

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1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I do not understand how AVATAR was Oscar-nominated for Best Cinematography.

 

Didn't it win?

 

The same goes for Life of Pi.

 

The cinematographical merits of such films fall under Special Effects.

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On 6/17/2020 at 5:17 PM, Alexcremers said:

This takes out the fun of being a director, doesn't it? You no longer capture the atmosphere, the mood, the light and interaction the characters have with the set. It's all done afterwards by computer wizards.

Apparently it was a bit the other way around again on The Mandalorian.

From what I understand anyway...

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I don't remember which but recently, they shot a dialog scene with actors when the actors were not even present. It was some big blockbusters.

 

So there were 4-5 actors in the scene and their schedules didn't align. So they were each filmed alone and then everything was cut together in editing and using CGI.

 

Movies are now made to a degree in a computer that was previously unimaginable.

 

Even cinematography and lighting on set doesn't' matter as much per se. Just do basic lighting, you can do endless tinkering and grading in post.

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1 minute ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Even cinematography and lighting on set doesn't' matter as much per se. Just do basic lighting, you can do endless tinkering and grading in post.

Well that part is tricky, digital lighting is often pretty bad. And you still have to have a very concrete idea what your shots will be framed like and how it'll all work or you'll end up with the prequels' godawful digital zooms.

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30 minutes ago, Holko said:

Well that part is tricky, digital lighting is often pretty bad. And you still have to have a very concrete idea what your shots will be framed like and how it'll all work or you'll end up with the prequels' godawful digital zooms.

 

It's getting better. I have been surprised recently by seeing some VFX demo reels. Things that I thought were lit on set were lit after the fact via VFX. Technology is getting better all the time. It's already became hard to tell the difference.

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On 6/18/2020 at 12:32 PM, Chen G. said:

Didn't it win?

 

The same goes for Life of Pi.

 

The cinematographical merits of such films fall under Special Effects.

You still need a cinematographer to direct the look of the film. Even if it’s digital light, it’s still light that needs to be manipulated. Deakins consulted on How To Train Your Dragon and it shows. 

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2 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

You still need a cinematographer to direct the look of the film. Even if it’s digital light, it’s still light that needs to be manipulated. Deakins consulted on How To Train Your Dragon and it shows. 

 

I think everyone agrees with that. Question is - why the boundary between Avatar and How To Train Your Dragon. Why not nominate Dragon or Wall-E for cinematography?

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2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think everyone agrees with that. Question is - why the boundary between Avatar and How To Train Your Dragon. Why not nominate Dragon or Wall-E for cinematography?

I’d be fine with that. The animation category is ultimately useless. It just boxes in an entire genre, and is a joke when something like Toy Story 3 gets nominated for Best Picture. No one will vote for it because it can win Best Animated Feature instead. 

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16 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Even cinematography and lighting on set doesn't' matter as much per se. Just do basic lighting, you can do endless tinkering and grading in post.

You can.

But do you want to?

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9 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

You still need a cinematographer to direct the look of the film. Even if it’s digital light, it’s still light that needs to be manipulated.

 

Oh sure. There's usually a CGI cinematographer working on the effects. But I still think that, in terms of accolades especially, it falls under "Special Effects" rather than cinematography, per se.

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  • 1 month later...

The Avatar sequels have been delayed (again) in one year.

 

Quote

AVATAR 2 (20th) previously dated on 12/17/21 moves to 12/16/22

AVATAR 3 (20th) previously dated on 12/22/23 moves to 12/20/24

AVATAR 4 (20th) previously dated on 12/19/25 moves to 12/18/26

AVATAR 5 (20th) previously dated on 12/17/27 moves to 12/22/28

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/07/disney-release-calendar-changes-mulan-french-dispatch-star-wars-avatar-1234575953/

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So Disney's big end of year schedule went from:

 

Dec 2019 = Star Wars 9

Dec 2020 = West Side Story

Dec 2021 = Avatar 2

Dec 2022 = Star Wars

Dec 2023 = Avatar 3

Dec 2024 = Star Wars

Dec 2025 = Avatar 4

Dec 2026 = Star Wars

Dec 2027 = Avatar 5

 

to

 

Dec 2019 = Star Wars 9

Dec 2020 = West Side Story

Dec 2021 = Spider-man 3

Dec 2022 = Avatar 2

Dec 2023 = Star Wars

Dec 2024 = Avatar 3

Dec 2025 = Star Wars

Dec 2026 = Avatar 4

Dec 2027 = Star Wars

Dec 2028 = Avatar 5

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