Avatar 2, 3 and 4 or how James Cameron stopped worrying and pulled The Hobbit on us

[Jurassic Shark 12,012]

Isn't the Avatar franchise a bit sexist?

[LSH 968]

Apparently Kate Winslet is the pregnant blue one.

[TSMefford 1,509]

19 hours ago, KK said:

All the close-up stuff looks great, some of the wide stuff, not great.

 

After seeing the 4K OM IMAX trailer just now, yes, this is super accurate.

In full quality, the close-ups actually look pretty phenomenal, a jump from the first film for sure... but yeah some of the wide shots look pretty rough and off...they could still be in progress of course, but yeah.

[LSH 968]

26 minutes ago, TSMefford said:

...they could still be in progress of course, but yeah.

 

Crikey, with just 7 months till release after 12 years of production... you'd hope they have something complete by now.  

[TSMefford 1,509]

Just now, LSH said:

 

Crikey, with just 7 months till release after 12 years of production... you'd hope they have something complete by now.  

 

Lol. If only. They'll be working on it until the last minute I'm sure.

[LSH 968]

4 hours ago, TSMefford said:

 

Lol. If only. They'll be working on it until the last minute I'm sure.

 

I truly believe that the shots in that trailer are completed renders. When teasers such as this come out - essentially a non-narrative compilation of images - it's a big show off. The production team, and more importantly WETA, knew that promotional material would need to rear up around this time. If this isn't finished material, nothing will be.

 

I have to say, though, that close-up shot of Neytiri at the beginning, with the light and shadow rippling across her face, is super gorgeous.

[TSMefford 1,509]

20 hours ago, LSH said:

 

I truly believe that the shots in that trailer are completed renders. When teasers such as this come out - essentially a non-narrative compilation of images - it's a big show off. The production team, and more importantly WETA, knew that promotional material would need to rear up around this time. If this isn't finished material, nothing will be.

 

I have to say, though, that close-up shot of Neytiri at the beginning, with the light and shadow rippling across her face, is super gorgeous.

 

Well, yes, they are "completed" renders. Completed in the sense that they put a ton of work into it and, technically speaking, has all the bells and whistles as far as rendering goes and went through the whole process that a final shot would go through. They wouldn't include anything without all that effort and making it look as good as they can.

 

But sometimes VFX shots still have earlier versions that are "completed" prior to the final iteration of a shot will be, just for the trailer and they will still continue to tweak things as they go. The movie doesn't come out until December - I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to finesse some of these shots along the way to November at least.

 

Honestly - most of the time a trailer editor receives an entire copy of the film with primitive VFX in order to edit separately while the film is being worked on. They may have figured out the edit of the trailer prior to those shots being remotely presentable and specifically accelerated the timeline for those shots to get something nearly done for the trailer release. 

 

This sort of early iteration and tweaking after the trailer happens all the time. Even if they're considered finished right now, they will likely still come back to them and tweak some things.

 

I remember back whenThe Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian was coming out. The big hero shot at the end of all the promo material of Aslan roaring (one of those "show-off" shots.) had several iterations during the marketing campaign. By the end, he was a fair bit bigger than when he started. Not to mention the color grading changes - Take a look:

 

 

I know Narnia isn't exactly Avatar - a film over 10 years in the making, but it happens. I won't be surprised at all if anything changes by the time of the final film. I honestly assume most of the time that material in trailers is not totally finalized material anyways.

 

We shall see! There's still time for additional detail and tweaking.

 

20 hours ago, LSH said:

I have to say, though, that close-up shot of Neytiri at the beginning, with the light and shadow rippling across her face, is super gorgeous.

 

Oh yes absolutely, thats a beautiful shot.

[A24 4,326]

On 09/05/2022 at 5:43 AM, KK said:

But wow, what a bore visually, in terms of production design. 

 

I don't see it either. We have seen this already 15 years ago and I wasn't impressed with the overall design back then either. What bothers me the most is how animated or Pixar-like the facial expressions are, especially the close-ups where the blue indians gaze at something in wonderment. You only see this expression in kids movies. It's a 'skipper' for me. After all, a fox is not caught twice in the same trap.

[KK 3,307]

Many video games have outdone this kind of thing design-wise since the first film anyway.

 

It all seems so unimaginative.

[Brónach 1,301]

The cat people are extremely boring design wise. the flying creatures were often good, the others not so much. And someone must have given up on the vegetation, which wasn't even green in the treatment (given the star, we should we able to know which pigments it could need the most, but I don't know this answer).

 

There was I think TetZoo blog post about the creatures a while back.

[Jay 37,271]

I saw a big standee for this film in the cinema last night

 

Almost hard to believe this thing is actually coming out

[Edmilson 7,375]

Here's Kate Winslet's character:

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

I SHOULD be excited about this but....

I'm not.

Low expectations are TIGHT!😁

[GerateWohl 4,322]

1 hour ago, bruce marshall said:

I SHOULD be excited about this but....

I'm not.

Low expectations are TIGHT!😁

What is there to be excited about? Even the title "The Way of Water" sounds about as exciting as "Time for Digestion".

[bruce marshall 1,314]

49 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

What is there to be excited about? Even the tile "The Way of Water" sounds about as exciting as "Time for Digestion".

[GerateWohl 4,322]

3 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

Yes. Why not?

[Chen G. 3,942]

You all jest, but this thing is going to make so. much. BLOODY. M O N E Y!

[A24 4,326]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

You all jest, but this thing is going to make so. much. BLOODY. M O N E Y!

 

It will struggle to make a billion.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

I have zero interest, in this. I am unable to explain how uninterested I am.

[Edmilson 7,375]

I confess I'd be more interested if James Horner was still alive to score the movie.

[bruce marshall 1,314]

It will succeed or fail on its merits.

It doesn't have a built in audience like MARVEL

[Bounty95 557]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I confess I'd be more interested if James Horner was still alive to score the movie.

 

That's certainly true, though I'm actually really looking forward to Simon Franglen's score. I quite enjoyed The Curse of Turandot! 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

On 1/7/2022 at 7:29 AM, AC1 said:

 

It will struggle to make a billion.

I think it makes a billion easy.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

21 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

It doesn't have a built in audience like MARVEL

How about everyone who watched AVATAR (sometimes multiple times), and helped to make it the most successful film ever released?

[Edmilson 7,375]

4 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

How about everyone who watched AVATAR (sometimes multiple times), and helped to make it the most successful film ever released?

They already forgot about Avatar on the minute they left the movie theater.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

Possibly, but GL waited 16 years to make TPM, and it became the second most successful film ever released, at that time.

[Edmilson 7,375]

Yeah, but in 1999 there were three Star Wars movies, while in 2022 there's just one Avatar. 

 

Also, I'm confidant Star Wars left a much bigger impact on the collective consciousness than Avatar, despite how much money the latter made. You could ask anyone on the street about who were Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, Han Solo and Darth Vader and they would know about these characters. Now try asking about Jake Sully or Neytiri or Quaritch...

 

Avatar only made so much money because people liked the 3D effects, but not because of its story or characters.

[Bayesian 1,358]

I think Avatar 2 will succeed for the same kinds of reasons Top Gun Maverick is succeeding in theaters now—it’s a refreshingly different adventure experience from the MCU and its ilk, and it’s something people will say needs to be experienced in theaters. Word-of-mouth is going to drive asses into IMAX seats this December and beyond, just like it did for the first one.

 

Will it top the all-time box office? Who knows? TGM wasn’t supposed to do its level of business, yet look at its legs. Plus, Cameron has experience making sequels widely considered to be superior in every way to their predecessors (i.e., T2:JD).
 

Avatar 2 is going to earn boatloads of money and to that I say, good. Let it join TGM in proving the studios can make money from IP that isn’t built around superheroes or comic books. 

[mstrox 6,637]

Avatar is going to make a shit ton of money and be just as forgettable as the original.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Kate Winslet held her breath for 7 minutes for a CG mocap character???  I would only do that if my suffocating face was ON CAMERA.

[Jay 37,271]

I can't hold my breath for 1 minute let alone multiple minutes

[mstrox 6,637]

She should get an Oscar

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Last week on vacation my brother and I did a breath holding contest in the pool (yes, we're way too old for such nonsense).  I held my breath for 3 minutes, 3 seconds, beating him handily.  I've always been able to hold my breath like that.

[mstrox 6,637]

3 minutes isn’t quite Oscarworthy, but I think you have a shot at a Golden Globe

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'd have settled for a Spirit Award!

[Jay 37,271]

“Avatar” Removed From Disney+ Ahead Of Film’s Theatrical Re-Release

[JNHFan2000 2,942]

Wow. They really are milking every single drop of money out of this thing to stay the No. 1 film in the world.

[Jay 37,271]

IIRC this will be the only way to see the film in its OAR again since all home video releases, and I assume streaming versions, and open-matte

[Mr. Who 919]

19 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Wow. They really are milking every single drop of money out of this thing to stay the No. 1 film in the world.

I'm really excited to see it in the cinema again, but this again clearly shows that streaming has problems that physical media just does not have. I own the blu ray and unless I get robbed, this cannot happen.

[Jay 37,271]

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

So, it's a "global phenomenon" now, is it?

Fuck's sake.

[Edmilson 7,375]

Unpopular opinion: I think Endgame is a better movie and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown than Avatar.

[Yavar Moradi 2,576]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Unpopular opinion: I think Endgame is a better movie and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown than Avatar.

 

I agree with you 100%

 

But I also think Disney's notorious box office bomb John Carter (OF MARS, dammit) is a better movie and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown than Avatar.  

 

Pretty similar storyline, and Cameron even said Avatar was heavily influenced by the Burroughs Mars novels. But Andrew Stanton's film beats his easily for me, in terms of characters/actors/story. It just had the worst marketing campaign of all time.

 

The marketing really turned me off the movie, but I heard good things from a friend and so I went... and my wife and I both loved it. The flashbacks in this scene (obviously it loses something without the film context around it) had us both tearing up, and that's somewhat unusual for us:

 

 

On the other hand, my wife still hasn't forgiven me for dragging her to Avatar after falling for all the marketing and hype. I thought it was just mediocre (Zoe Saldana was very good), but she absolutely despised it.

 

Yavar

[Edmilson 7,375]

Yeah, in 2009/10, everyone fell for the marketing campaign that promised "the most amazing theatrical experience of your lifetime". Then, a few months later, people just forgot about the story and characters... lol

 

But I don't hate Avatar, I think it's a decent movie with a great James Horner score.

[Tallguy 3,359]

All my friends said "Well, yeah, the story is bone stupid, but you have to see it for the FX!" I said "I will wait a few years until those FX are attached to better movies."

 

I'm pretty sure that has paid off.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

On 23/08/2022 at 11:56 PM, Edmilson said:

Unpopular opinion: I think Endgame is a better movie and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown than Avatar.

Possibly unpopular opinion: I think JAWS, STAR WARS, JURASSIC PARK, and E.T. are better and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown, than AVATAR.

[JNHFan2000 2,942]

8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Unpopular opinion: I think Endgame is a better movie and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown than Avatar.

 

1000% agree.

I never got the hype around Avatar. I'm not a fan of Cameron. I think some of his films are overrated, and don't really like the man himself (from what I've seen & read in interviews). The story is something that has been done so many times before, in much better ways.

I agree that some of the visuals are beautiful and Saldana is the standout in a decent cast. But other that that, nothing in this story hooked me. I feel it's overly long with big amounts of nothingness.

 

Horner's score is great, but I wouldn't count it among his top 5 or maybe 10 personally.

 

I am curious though, at what the 2nd film will be like. But honestly at this moment the only thing that is remotely interesting about the sequel is Kate Winslet. Other than that, to me, it feels like Cameron is trying to get another film in the top 5 of highest grossing films, just because he doesn't like Marvel etc. And that's he's trying to prove what a technical achievement all of it is. And I'm afraid that he will probably get another Oscar nomination for directing. Which I still don't understand he got for the first film. And directors like Coogler, The Russo's & Villeneuve didn't for Black Panther, Endgame & Dune.

 

Seems like a bit of a rant, sorry. I don't mind people like the film, because I like a lot of stuff others don't. But I just don't get all the praise it's getting.

[GerateWohl 4,322]

9 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Unpopular opinion: I think Endgame is a better movie and more deserving of the "biggest box office of all time" crown than Avatar.

Very true. Anyway, this body of work that we have there with MCU phase 1-3 over a span of about ten years, 22 movies delivering that infinity storyline and that fulminant finale Endgame is unique in cinema history and probably will always be. What a blast of entertainment was that!

 

And yes. They should have stopped there. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

I learned a new word, today: "fulminant".

[GerateWohl 4,322]

I didn't make that up.