Avatar 2, 3 and 4 or how James Cameron stopped worrying and pulled The Hobbit on us

[GerateWohl 4,356]

29 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

People can dislike what they want, and Avatar of course isn't to everyones taste, but with some actively hoping it will fail and laughing at how much they think no one cares, it sure does feel good as a fan myself, to watch the film become another massive success. 

Still I don't remember any comment in this thread of anyone betting against the success of this movie. As far as I remember, everyone here, the fanboys and those who expected it to be a bad or mediocre movie, all were joined in believing that this movie is going to be a big commercial success, like the first movie before.

[leeallen01 2,136]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

Still I don't remember any comment in this thread of anyone betting against the success of this movie. As far as I remember, everyone here, the fanboys and those who expected it to be a bad or mediocre movie, all were joined in believing that this movie is going to be a big commercial success, like the first movie before.

 

I'm not referring to anyone on here. I haven't seen anyone being unreasonable about avatar on here at all really.

 

I was referring to the wider internet world. Just some of your average negative chatter that happens with any big release.

[Romão 2,274]

I have no interest in this movie and I would've waged my house this would be a box office success

[karelm 2,912]

Well, I just returned from seeing it and loved it!  I thought it was a good sequel to the original with some amazing visuals and excellent action/combat sequences.  I haven't seen the original in years but think I might like this one better.  I thought Simon Franglen did a great job capturing the spirit of Horner considering the obvious constraint that it is NOT and never will be Horner.  I didn't mind it was quite noticeable where Horner came in and where Franglen came in.  I have no doubt he tried his best to embody the spirit of Horner and I hear that effort. Overall, the film was a worthy successor and very good popcorn flick.  Outstanding visuals and I found the characters (the kids) more interesting than the villains of the original.  I enjoyed myself but actually think it could have been a bit longer...I thought the same of the original even with the director's cut.  Not that it isn't long (it's quite long) but some sequences felt rushed and cut down and I think would have flown smoother with more material.  I can imagine this as a 3:45 film.  Yes, yes, a bit heavy handed at times.  But no worse than Star Wars.  I had a great time.  I saw it in Dolby real 3D which includes reclining seats and subwoofers in the seats which gave me a bit of a headache, but the 3D was excellent visually.  It was pricey for me, $21 for a matinee.  The frame rate changes were a bit jarring.  At the high frame rate, looked excellent but stuttered a bit in the low frame sequences.  

[leeallen01 2,136]

I haven't seen it in HFR yet. I've heard the overall opinion is that it's just distracting rather than an improvement. Not sure whether to see it in that myself.

 

I've seen it in 3D and 2D. The 3D was stunning particularly in the water sequences, but I actually preferred the standard 2D regular movie format. I was able to lose myself more easily in the film, rather than spending a few seconds every few minutes saying "oh wow, look at that! Anyway, back to the film."

 

 

10 hours ago, karelm said:

I enjoyed myself but actually think it could have been a bit longer

 

I agree. I would be fine with a LOTR extended edition style release. 

[Mr. Who 919]

There is reportedly a version which is 30-50 mins longer so hopefully we get a proper extended cut on the blu ray. 10 mins of action scenes were cut and Franglen mentioned having written more music that was performed on set so I assume that a few additional “song / live on set performance scenes” were filmed as well that weren’t in the theatrical cut.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Good lord haha.

 

And apparently it went up hugely in China as well. It's basically increasing business everywhere. Cameron is ridiculous...yet again.

[Mr. Who 919]

And here we go!

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

I remember back in 2009 when I was in a box office forum and it felt the same then as it does now. Just the fever surrounding predictions and daily numbers was fun to follow. I also remember calculating around this time in its run, that Avatar was going to be the highest grossing film of all-time, and no one believed me.

 

It's cool and strange to be re-living a sort of deja vu moment with the sequels' box office. 

[Bayesian 1,363]

On 30/12/2022 at 4:45 PM, karelm said:

 I saw it in Dolby real 3D which includes reclining seats and subwoofers in the seats which gave me a bit of a headache, but the 3D was excellent visually.  It was pricey for me, $21 for a matinee.

Don't feel too bad; we saw it in a shitty "IMAX" theater with the old style, non-lounger seat at $23 a head. (Word to the wise, stay away from the Regal Edwards cinema in Fairfield, CA.) Receiving a proper viewing experience in an updated theater is a major motivation for me to see this one again.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Apparently Cameron hinted at the 3rd film taking a different direction with the Na'vi. He said that he has portrayed them as good and the humans as bad, but he will explore the opposite in the next one, involvong another Na'vi clan nicknamed the Ash clan, who are more fire based. (Definitely getting that Earth, Fire, Water and Air thing going 😉)

 

It will be interesting if they explore the human desperation to leave the dying earth and settle of Pandora, and they have to make some sort of truce with Jake.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Jake who?

[leeallen01 2,136]

30 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Jake who?

 

Jake Sully...the main character.

 

If you're trolling then... congrats, I guess. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

No, I haven't seen any of it. It just sounded weird that the humans will have to make truce only with this Jake character, unless he's the leader of all Avatars.

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

Apparently Cameron hinted at the 3rd film taking a different direction with the Na'vi. He said that he has portrayed them as good and the humans as bad, but he will explore the opposite in the next one, involvong another Na'vi clan nicknamed the Ash clan, who are more fire based. (Definitely getting that Earth, Fire, Water and Air thing going 😉)

 

It will be interesting if they explore the human desperation to leave the dying earth and settle of Pandora, and they have to make some sort of truce with Jake.

I read this as well and I am intrigued by the whole idea of showing other sides of the na'vi and the humans and that the humans aren't all like the RDA . Jon Landau also said that Earth will appear as a location in one of the later movies!

 

The fact that all the scripts were finished before they even started filming the second movie is great. The actors read all the scripts and know the entire character arcs before filming 2 and 3 back to back.

[GerateWohl 4,356]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

Apparently Cameron hinted at the 3rd film taking a different direction with the Na'vi. He said that he has portrayed them as good and the humans as bad, but he will explore the opposite in the next one, involvong another Na'vi clan nicknamed the Ash clan, who are more fire based. (Definitely getting that Earth, Fire, Water and Air thing going 😉)

Again a poor choice to pick a new Na'vi tribe to explore another facette of their character.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

What would you rather do?

[GerateWohl 4,356]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

What would you rather do?

Basically, you just need two things to make normal people do bad things. Threaten their life foundation by shorting their basic resources and ideological indoctrination. 

So, in the next movie there could be something like a peaceful human colony on pandora and some of the Na'vi planning to take revenge for what the others had done.

 

But also motives like jealousy or any kind of conflicting desires and needs could could turn allies into enemies.

Maybe at defending themselves against the humans the Na'vi discovered how good they are at fighting and using that to get what they need, that a part of them wants to use that to conquere new areas, where they don't just get what falls from the trees. Of course first life situation must become difficult. That is the precondition.

Could also be something like a human virus from earth that humans are immune against but the Na'vi are not. Tada!!! there is the conflict. How to live together? No humans, no problems. But humans have no other place to live. Something like a Princess Mononoke scenario.

There3 are many options. But I am not the writer of this. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

So is the earth uninhabitable in the Avatar universe?

[GerateWohl 4,356]

Yes. At least what I heard about the plot of the second movie.

Maybe they left just Wall-E there to clean up the mess.

[leeallen01 2,136]

6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

No, I haven't seen any of it. It just sounded weird that the humans will have to make truce only with this Jake character, unless he's the leader of all Avatars.

 

He's the leader of essentially the rebellion against the invading humans. He has the military skill and knowledge of how the humans operate, so he takes the lead in most confrontations. 

 

 

 

 

in reference to Cameron's conments; while I'm fine with an exploration of a more negative Na'vi side and positive human side, Cameron hasn't exactly just painted the Na'vi as all good and the humans as all evil, like some haters narrow-mindedly state. In fact both films have portrayed good and bad actions of Na'vi and humans.

 

E.g The scientists studying the Na'vi are good and risked their lives to help them. Also Jake was literally one of the military and yet he risked his life to help them. So too did Trudy, who actually died to save the Na'vi. Even Selfridge, the man in charge of the entire operation to pillage Pandora's resources, was ultimately very clearly not happy with the military intervention, and even gave the scientists a chance to evacuate the Na'vi clan before Quarritch and his forces got there.

 

And of course in The Way of Water, we are shown a frightening side of Neytiri, as she was very willing to kill Spider, an innocent human child, in order to save her own family and seek revenge for her own loss.

 

Doesn't seem all that black and white to me. 

[Mr. Who 919]

Some box office news
 

 

[1977 1,743]

8 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

So is the earth uninhabitable in the Avatar universe?

 

8 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Yes. At least what I heard about the plot of the second movie.

Maybe they left just Wall-E there to clean up the mess.

 

In the extended cut of the first film the opening is set on Earth, which looks a bit like 2020 with lots of people walking around outside with masks on.

 

So uninhabitable no, but dystopic yes.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Is there a shortened cut?

[Nick1Ø66 4,711]

34 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

 

In the extended cut of the first film the opening is set on Earth, which looks a bit like 2020 with lots of people walking around outside with masks on.

 

So uninhabitable no, but dystopic yes.

 

Yeah, in the extended cut Earth looks a little Blade Runneresque.  Which is more or less the default look for a future Earth in most science fiction movies. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Yeah, it also looked like that in Blade Runner 2049.

[leeallen01 2,136]

I guess they decided it's getting too polluted or over-populated. Hopefully we get more on that in future films. It has been 13 years since the first films events (both real world for us and in film time too) 

 

It takes the ships around 6 years to travel between earth and pandora, so clearly when the Na'vi forced them off pandora, they got back to earth 6 years later and everything was discussed and debriefed, and they loaded up more forces and decided to return with a different plan. Not just to mine pandora for resources, but to relocate and set up a perminant colony of humans.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

7 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

It takes the ships around 6 years to travel between earth and pandora

 

I guess this was revealed in the second film?

 

52 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

In the extended cut of the first film the opening is set on Earth, which looks a bit like 2020 with lots of people walking around outside with masks on.

 

So they've got COVID and want to escape lock down.

[leeallen01 2,136]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I guess this was revealed in the second film?

 

It's in the opening of the first film. One of the crew helping get the passengers out of cryosleep refers to the time they've been in cryo, which is 5 years and a few months.

 

 

Edit- just watched the scene on youtube, Jake says it's 6 years, and the crewman says "you've been in cryo for 5 years, 9 months and 22 days."

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

3 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

It's in the opening of the first film. One of the crew helping get the passengers out of cryosleep refers to the time they've been in cryo, which is 5 years and a few months.

 

So Cameron always planned it would be a bit more than ten years between the two films.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Just now, Jurassic Shark said:

 

So Cameron always planned it would be a bit more than ten years between the two films.

 

 

Haha if he did that on purpose then he's very dedicated. I guess it is funny how coincidental the times are; 13 years between films, and 12 years for the humans to return.

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

He's a mastermind.

[Edmilson 7,433]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Is there a shortened cut?

Well, there is this:

 

 

And for the sequel:

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Thanks! Many hours of my life saved.

[1977 1,743]

13 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Is there a shortened cut?

 

Yes. You need to hold this in while watching.

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

Should've said - 

 

"That first Avatar becoming the biggest film of all time was a crazy fluke. I mean it's gonna be pretty impossible for a sequel to repeat that kind of record success 13 years later."

 

"Actually Sir, it's gonna be super easy, barely an inconvenience."

[NL197 368]

Sir I’m gonna have to ask you to get allllllll the way off my back about it. 
 

Yeah you better get off of that thing. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Imagine being to guy who said to James Cameron, Aliens will be a career ender, T-2 good luck with that, Titanic no one will care about a love story on Titanic, blue people???

 

 I have two things to say about this Cameron guy, Piranha 2.

[Edmilson 7,433]

Top Gun is only $6m ahead of Avatar 2 at the worldwide box office as of Jan 3.

 

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/releasegroup/gr1928614405/?ref_=bo_ydw_table_1

 

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/releasegroup/gr1943818757/?ref_=bo_ydw_table_2

 

It's funny to notice that the three biggest movies of 2022 were sequels of franchises that started in the 80s, 90s (JWD) and 2000s.

[leeallen01 2,136]

9 hours ago, JoeinAR said:

I have two things to say about this Cameron guy, Piranha 2.

 

I'm starting to think this James Camera guy likes water.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On 30/12/2022 at 10:14 AM, KK said:

It is certainly not getting 3 billion. Haha.

 

It will definitely beat Top Gun, but I think it's going to be a bit of a slow crawl to $2 billion, though I don't doubt it'll get there.

It will cross 2 Billion next week by Jan q2 or 13 is my bet.

[Indianagirl 298]

I don't understand where its getting its money from. I looked up Box Office Mojo all the individual international numbers and it does not add up to 1.5 billion. It was about 500 million off. Maybe the individual countries get updated late?

[leeallen01 2,136]

2 hours ago, Indianagirl said:

I don't understand where its getting its money from. I looked up Box Office Mojo all the individual international numbers and it does not add up to 1.5 billion. It was about 500 million off. Maybe the individual countries get updated late?

 

Indeed

 

Some box office sites still don't have the final numbers for the first Avatar Listed haha  For some reason they don't update the numbers properly. 

 

The best place to find actual full totals for box office is twitter reporting.

 

For example, this guy is great on twitter. Regular updates - 

@Luiz_Fernando_J

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Box office mojo was reporting Tuesdays number today. There is always a time lag

[Edmilson 7,433]

There you go:

 

Avatar: The Way of Water‘ Swims Past ’Top Gun: Maverick’ at Global Box Office

[Jurassic Shark 12,054]

Cruise must be furious. 

[LSH 968]

James Cameron: Avatar 3 Will Feature Fire Na'vi

 

Anvils!

[Edmilson 7,433]

We all know Cameron is trying to ape the other Avatar (aka the best Avatar) 

 

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

[mrbellamy 6,278]

 

Not sure if this was shared here, good talk.

 

Beating a dead horse but I especially appreciated Cameron's take on the cinema vs home experience at 28:02, definitely how I feel about it.