Avatar 2, 3 and 4 or how James Cameron stopped worrying and pulled The Hobbit on us

[Mr. Who 708]

4 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Not sure if this was shared here, good talk.

 

Beating a dead horse but I especially appreciated Cameron's take on the cinema vs home experience at 28:02, definitely how I feel about it.

I listened to this a few weeks ago. It’s interesting how Act 1 of the 3rd movie was originally in movie 2. His take on cinema vs home viewing is pretty accurate and is probably more true than the whole shared experience take which gets discussed a lot. There’s some truth to the shared experience argument and seeing Avatar 2 in a packed cinema where the audience is engaged and claps after the film is great. 
 

However Cameron’s argument is probably the truth for most people because often other cinema goers can be annoying with their loud snacks and talking. It’s the idea that you payed for a movie and can’t do whatever you want like pause or check your phone etc plus the big screen and sound system obviously.

[Thor 5,946]

Thanks for sharing that Del Toro/Cameron talk. Good stuff! Del Toro is a decent interviewer (and I had no idea they were friends from way back). Oh, how Hollywood would have needed someone like Cameron in the late 40s and early 50s (which in some ways mirror the situation today).

[leeallen01 2,036]

I heard somewhere that apparently a long time ago, Del Toro's father was kidnapped and Cameron paid a million dollar ransom to get him back.

 

Probably not true though

[Thor 5,946]

10 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I heard somewhere that apparently a long time ago, Del Toro's father was kidnapped and Cameron paid a million dollar ransom to get him back.

 

Probably not true though

 

Been watching PROOF OF LIFE again, have we?

[leeallen01 2,036]

20 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Been watching PROOF OF LIFE again, have we?

 

No idea what that is haha.

[mstrox 5,860]

3 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

Not sure if this was shared here, good talk.

 

Beating a dead horse but I especially appreciated Cameron's take on the cinema vs home experience at 28:02, definitely how I feel about it.

He’s absolutely right - that’s where the value of the theater experience is for me.

[Indianagirl 279]

19 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 

Indeed

 

Some box office sites still don't have the final numbers for the first Avatar Listed haha  For some reason they don't update the numbers properly. 

 

The best place to find actual full totals for box office is twitter reporting.

 

For example, this guy is great on twitter. Regular updates - 

@Luiz_Fernando_J

That must be it because I did a second count last night and it was still off but much closer

[Mr. Who 708]

The sequels will be made! Cameron has confirmed it.

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/james-cameron-avatar-2-profitable-sequels-1235292374/

[leeallen01 2,036]

Thank you great mother!

[Mr. Who 708]

Eywa has heard us!

[TolkienSS 217]

These movies must be the most expensive movies ever made that remain culturally completely irrelevant.

The first Avatar left absolutely zero impact, and so will this one because there is nothing in there that's faintly original.

[Nick1Ø66 3,772]

21 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

These movies must be the most expensive movies ever made that remain culturally completely irrelevant.

The first Avatar left absolutely zero impact, and so will this one because there is nothing in there that's faintly original.

 

Who cares?  You pay your money and you're completely immersed in another world for three hours. Then you return to your normal life. Huge numbers of people apparently enjoy the experience Cameron has created for them, and the box office speaks for itself.

 

What difference does it make how much "cultural impact" the film has?

 

 

[mrbellamy 5,693]

10 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

I heard somewhere that apparently a long time ago, Del Toro's father was kidnapped and Cameron paid a million dollar ransom to get him back.

 

Probably not true though

 

This was clarified by Del Toro recently, Cameron set up and paid for the negotiator. He offered to pay the full ransom but Del Toro's family wouldn't accept it, and they paid Cameron back later. 

[Taikomochi 904]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

These movies must be the most expensive movies ever made that remain culturally completely irrelevant.

The first Avatar left absolutely zero impact, and so will this one because there is nothing in there that's faintly original.

The only thing less original than the plot to the original Avatar is this feckless meme of a criticism. It is an absolutely, 100% meaningless metric that there aren’t Avatar memes on Twitter or Reddit or wherever else you source your opinions from. 

[leeallen01 2,036]

It's like the great John Williams once said - "You're going to have to find a better criticism than that for this film."

 

And Spielberg responded - "I know, but they're all already dead."

[TolkienSS 217]

1 hour ago, Taikomochi said:

The only thing less original than the plot to the original Avatar is this feckless meme of a criticism. It is an absolutely, 100% meaningless metric that there aren’t Avatar memes on Twitter or Reddit or wherever else you source your opinions from. 

 

I source my opinions by and large by my inner compass.

And my nose tells me if movie elitists reply to open opinions with, uh, "feckless memes" of anger, then my initial assessment can't be far off.

 

Speaking of memes, someone trashing social internet platforms on social internet platforms never gets old.

What is original, however, and funny, is the underlying assumption that cultural impact is defined by internet memes LOL

So, apparently, movies before 2000 didn't have cultural impact. Funny then, how certain movies shaped entire eras of film making and brought pieces of dialogue into public consciousness.

If you ask some average guy about real classic impactful movies, they can name some dialogue or a scene or hum a piece of music.

All anyone ever remembers about Avatar is at most "oh yeah blue people".

[leeallen01 2,036]

21 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

 

I source my opinions by and large by my inner compass.

And my nose tells me if movie elitists reply to open opinions with, uh, "feckless memes" of anger, then my initial assessment can't be far off.

 

Speaking of memes, someone trashing social internet platforms on social internet platforms never gets old.

What is original, however, and funny, is the underlying assumption that cultural impact is defined by internet memes LOL

So, apparently, movies before 2000 didn't have cultural impact. Funny then, how certain movies shaped entire eras of film making and brought pieces of dialogue into public consciousness.

If you ask some average guy about real classic impactful movies, they can name some dialogue or a scene or hum a piece of music.

All anyone ever remembers about Avatar is at most "oh yeah blue people".

 

"I don't see any conversations or cultural impact of a film that I have no interest in, nor seek out. It's weird... The postman just posted my mail yesterday without even asking me about Neytiri's questionable moral actions with Spider. It must mean Avatar has no cultural impact."

 

There are a handful of films that truly have a cultural impact. You're acting like there are countless numbers. It is impossible to measure a films cultural impact.

 

Stranger Things is one of the biggest TV shows ever, and yet I saw nothing about it in its 6 year existence, except for just knowing the name. I heard zero people talking about it around me because I never sought it out. But last year, I decided to watch it when I finally got Netflix. I fell in love with it to an obsessive level. Now I see cultural impact, because I seek it out. 

[Taikomochi 904]

Why do you think cultural impact matters when evaluating a film? Plenty of great films have none. How do you quantify cultural impact? Why do you think that you or the many other people I have seen parrot this critique are qualified as an arbiter of what is or isn’t culturally impactful? Have you been to China or India where the Avatar films are so popular? Do you believe studio execs or James Cameron are losing sleep over people not quoting these films that are designed to be singular theatrical experiences, rather than quotable movies, despite making oodles and oodles of cash?

 

They have no cultural impact, and yet, here you are arguing about it in the internet. Lol

[leeallen01 2,036]

I have a friend that has connections to the Pandora theme park area in Florida, and he says it's consistently packed to a crazy level, and that people of all ages absolutely love it when they're there. Is that enough cultural impact?

 

Perhaps no one has said "I see you" to you in your life, but no one has ever said "may the force be with you" to me either.

[Mr. Who 708]

8 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

I have a friend that has connections to the Pandora theme park area in Florida, and he says it's consistently packed to a crazy level, and that people of all ages absolutely love it when they're there. Is that enough cultural impact?

 

Perhaps no one has said "I see you" to you in your life, but no one has ever said "may the force be with you" to me either.

I also heard that the theme park is always packed.
 

Franglen said there is 5 hours of music written for the park. It’s a shame that only one hour was released on the CD.

[leeallen01 2,036]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

Franglen said there is 5 hours of music written for the park. It’s a shame that only one hour was released on the CD.

 

 

Yeah there's some lovely new arrangements of Horner's themes in there. Also I like the new theme heard in the pieces 'The Shaman Call' and 'Na'vi River Journey.'

[King Mark 3,220]

On 05/01/2023 at 3:37 PM, LSH said:

James Cameron: Avatar 3 Will Feature Fire Na'vi

 

Anvils!

 Damn I was betting on Sky Navi or Underground Navi

[leeallen01 2,036]

Actually, thinking about it, jokes aside, I would love an underground Na'vi clan. Could you imagine the incredible 3D visuals involved in a vast bioluminescent cave system. And the ideas for animal and plant life that has to adapt to zero light. 

[Nick1Ø66 3,772]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

I source my opinions by and large by my inner compass.

And my nose tells me if movie elitists reply to open opinions with, uh, "feckless memes" of anger, then my initial assessment can't be far off.

 

Mate, the "Avatar has no cultural impact" thing has been one of the most conventional wisdom, oft-repeated opinions about a film for the past decade. I mean, the opinion itself is so mainstream that it's part of the culture that you say Avatar hasn't influenced.

 

And it's not that it's a bad take, but it's hardly an original thought.

 

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

All anyone ever remembers about Avatar is at most "oh yeah blue people".

 

I actually think it's the immersive, 3D cinematic experience most people remember about Avatar. And while the story itself may not have had a huge cultural impact, you can't discount that it did set off the 3D craze.

[leeallen01 2,036]

 

 

[KK 3,252]

As it has often been said, I don't think it's inaccurate at all to say that Avatar never really caught on in the cultural zeitgeist or consciousness outside of its technical/financial feats, certainly not like Cameron's past films. But then again, what was the last film that really did that anyway? LOTR? Maybe Inception? 

 

Outside of niche cult hits, big movies are far more "ephemeral" in memory than they used to be.

[leeallen01 2,036]

Came across this video a few days ago and he basically addresses every criticism of Avatar, including the no cultural impact argument. Very well analysed and pretty hilarious also.

 

 

 

And he just dropped a new video about The Way of Water. Currently watching it now.

[Nick1Ø66 3,772]

15 minutes ago, KK said:

As it has often been said, I don't think it's inaccurate at all to say that Avatar never really caught on in the cultural zeitgeist or consciousness outside of its technical/financial feats, certainly not like Cameron's past films. But then again, what was the last film that really did that anyway? LOTR? Maybe Inception? 

 

Outside of niche cult hits, big movies are far more "ephemeral" in memory than they used to be.

 

Whatever you think of it, the MCU as a whole (at least through Endgame) has had a massive cultural impact.

 

 

[Mr. Who 708]

It’s funny that basically everyone I talk to in real life doesn’t know anything about this internet minority view about avatar. The internet really doesn’t represent the real world, at least not overall.

[leeallen01 2,036]

1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Whatever you think of it, the MCU as a whole (at least through Endgame) has had a massive cultural impact.

True, but that tends to happen when you beat everyone to death with 25 films in 10 years. The next superhero movie became the only real blockbuster on the scene. 

[Nick1Ø66 3,772]

7 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

True, but that tends to happen when you beat everyone to death with 25 films in 10 years. The next superhero movie became the only real blockbuster on the scene. 

 

Perhaps. But you could make the inverse argument about Avatar...that it's lack of cultural staying power wasn't because it wasn't an impactful film, but that until recently there wasn't a sequel to build on what the first film started. Cameron himself has made this point.

 

[KK 3,252]

3 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Sure. But you could make the inverse argument about Avatar...that it's lack of cultural staying power wasn't because it wasn't an impactful film, but that until recently there wasn't a sequel to build on what the first film started. Cameron himself has made this point.

 

Right. But there was a time, when you didn't have to badger and oversaturate the market with 10 films a year to stay in people's minds.

 

The MCU films benefit from saturation of the market, and easy marketable IP. But even then, I wonder if people are out there, quoting lines and re-enacting or even parodying scenes from those films.

[Mr. Who 708]

This is a really cool behind the scenes video. Even if it’s cgi they really did everything for real with the actors and stunt people and swimmers:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnFIzTchieS/

[leeallen01 2,036]

2 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

Sure. But you could make the inverse argument about Avatar...that it's lack of cultural staying power wasn't because it wasn't an impactful film, but that until recently there wasn't a sequel to build on what the first film started. Cameron himself has made this point.

 

Indeed. 

 

I believe for a piece of media to have massive cultural impact, it basically needs to have one of three conditions;

 

1) It is completely fresh and opposite to the current media landscape, e.g. Star Wars.

 

2) Quantity; the sheer number of films involved. e.g. MCU

 

3) An adaptation of an already huge culturally impactful thing. e.g LOTR and Harry Potter. 

[Nick1Ø66 3,772]

1 minute ago, KK said:

Right. But there was a time, when you didn't have to badger and oversaturate the market with 10 films a year to stay in people's minds.

 

True. The Matrix comes to mind. That film had a massive cultural footprint, and you could almost make the argument that the sequels detracted from its impact rather than adding to it.

[leeallen01 2,036]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

This is a really cool behind the scenes video. Even if it’s cgi they really did everything for real with the actors and stunt people and swimmers:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnFIzTchieS/

 

I've been waiting for something like this! I am fascinated with how films are made, especially difficult productions. I've watched the LOTR special features even more than the films themselves. I can even quote them haha.

[Romão 2,157]

1 hour ago, KK said:

As it has often been said, I don't think it's inaccurate at all to say that Avatar never really caught on in the cultural zeitgeist or consciousness outside of its technical/financial feats, certainly not like Cameron's past films. But then again, what was the last film that really did that anyway? LOTR? Maybe Inception? 

 

Outside of niche cult hits, big movies are far more "ephemeral" in memory than they used to be.

 

 

The Dark Knight is probably the best example since the LOTR trilogy, much more so than Inception, I think

[crumbs 12,958]

6 hours ago, TolkienSS said:

These movies must be the most expensive movies ever made that remain culturally completely irrelevant.

The first Avatar left absolutely zero impact, and so will this one because there is nothing in there that's faintly original.

 

Considering how "culturally irrelevant" these films are, you certainly spend a lot of time in this thread talking about them.

[leeallen01 2,036]

[Naïve Old Fart 7,933]

$1,547,000,000, and showing no sign of stopping.

[mrbellamy 5,693]

On 06/01/2023 at 5:40 PM, KK said:

As it has often been said, I don't think it's inaccurate at all to say that Avatar never really caught on in the cultural zeitgeist or consciousness outside of its technical/financial feats, certainly not like Cameron's past films. But then again, what was the last film that really did that anyway? LOTR? Maybe Inception? 

 

Outside of niche cult hits, big movies are far more "ephemeral" in memory than they used to be.

 

Mad Max: Fury Road and Get Out are possible candidates. If we're talking online currency here, hands down Leonardo DiCaprio owns the 2010s in terms of the most seamless transition from silver screen to internet star lol. Especially between Inception, Django Unchained, Great Gatsby, Wolf of Wall Street, and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. 

 

But that also illustrates why meme culture is a weird metric because those movies are popular, yes, but the GIFs and screenshots take on a life of their own. It's not really the same as directly quoting a movie or remembering a classic scene...the way we do it now is so transformative, abstract, ironic. Gatsby's the one where you would most understand how that GIF became popular just by watching the movie, but it's also probably the film of that group with the least staying power overall. 

 

On the other hand it is undoubtedly part of the new way of communicating and so I can't totally dismiss it. Those movies feel like they're part of some other template for how we reference movies more obliquely in tweets and group texts, but I think those films do also have memorable scenes, quotes, and moments that I've seen shared, which probably contributes to how these more random moments arise. And the films themselves have an enviable cross between prestige and entertainment value which can be a legacy factor (like LOTR.) Especially Nolan, Scorsese, and Tarantino, those movies can feasibly be ranked top-tier in very competitive and much-discussed filmographies. 

 

Idk, this has gotten very off-topic but I am just realizing when I think of 2010s pop culture, DiCaprio is so dominant in my memory now lol. Especially for good old-fashioned, non-franchise Hollywood cinema that somehow translated to the hivemind. 

[Mr. Who 708]

The Way of Water has now passed Lion King and Jurassic World and might pass No Way Home next by next Sunday.

 

 

[leeallen01 2,036]

Based on the numbers and its week to week decline percentages, it is impossible for it not to gross 2.5 billion. That is now a statistical lock. Only pulling it from theatres will stop that now. But if it has even stronger legs than now, going forward, it could reach 2nd all time ahead of Endgame. 

 

So Avatar 1 and 2 would be 1 and 2 all time haha, that would be ridiculous.

[Jay 31,998]

12 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

So Avatar 1 and 2 would be 1 and 2 all time haha, that would be ridiculous.

 

That doesn't seem ridiculous to me

[leeallen01 2,036]

My calculations based on current percentage of decline would make it earning another 560 million overseas and 210 domestically for a 770 million more worldwide. Add that to the 1.71 billion currently, and it makes 2.5 billion. Who the hell knows though with monsters like this.

[Bayesian 1,067]

2 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Based on the numbers and its week to week decline percentages, it is impossible for it not to gross 2.5 billion. That is now a statistical lock. Only pulling it from theatres will stop that now. But if it has even stronger legs than now, going forward, it could reach 2nd all time ahead of Endgame. 

 

So Avatar 1 and 2 would be 1 and 2 all time haha, that would be ridiculous.

I would love to see Avatar 2 beat Endgame. I'll do my part by seeing it again, this time in a proper theater setting, as opposed to the shitty Regal Edwards in Fairfield, which was the only one available on opening weekend.

[crumbs 12,958]

I'll probably see it again without the 3D. It wasn't comfortable wearing those 3D glasses on top of my prescription glasses. 

[Naïve Old Fart 7,933]

Apparently, there are 2D glasses, which convert 3D to 2D.

[Richard Penna 2,631]

You could make them yourself - take two of either left right and put that pair into a frame.

 

My issue with 3D was always just the discomfort of wearing glasses on top of glasses. I'd have to keep adjusting them quietly.

 

That said, I do remember Prometheus being quite a stunning experience in 3D. I got the Blu ray of that from an exchange for £2 the other week, £1 of which was the luxury of having it in 3D (because... why not).

[Naïve Old Fart 7,933]

Yes, I watched PROMETHEUS in 3D. It was the second time that I'd watched it (oh, the dedication) - 2D the first time.

I thought the 3D was very good.