Avatar 2, 3 and 4 or how James Cameron stopped worrying and pulled The Hobbit on us

[Taikomochi 905]

The glasses they give at my local imax at least are big enough to completely go over my (large) glasses. It's surprisingly  comfortable. 

[JTWfan77 1,406]

This is the first movie since The Force Awakens that I have seen more than once in the cinema.

 

It also happens to be one of only three films I watched in a cinema in 2022 - the other two being Spider-Man: No Way Home and Top Gun: Maverick.

 

Avatar is probably the only franchise that I will bother with going to watch in theatres in the future.

[leeallen01 2,036]

I used to go to the cinema at least once a month many years ago. Not only are films getting far worse since 2016, but I don't see the point of the cinema any more unless it's for films made for the cinema experience. Avatar is made for that. Like Endgame was. It was an event. It meant something to go and see it. A massive film made only to see on the biggest screen with the best sound system.

 

I've seen The Way of Water 3 times already. I just go and see it in all its formats and funnily enough standard 2D was the best experience because I focused on the characters and story more. 

 

Indie films can just be watched at home.

 

In the last 3 years, I've only seen The Batman and Avatar in cinemas. I was done with Marvel after Endgame, and will only go back to the cinema for the next Avatar and perhaps if the next Bond film looks good.

[Mr. Who 717]

3 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

I used to go to the cinema at least once a month many years ago. Not only are films getting far worse since 2016, but I don't see the point of the cinema any more unless it's for films made for the cinema experience. Avatar is made for that. Like Endgame was. It was an event. It meant something to go and see it. A massive film made only to see on the biggest screen with the best sound system.

 

I've seen The Way of Water 3 times already. I just go and see it in all its formats and funnily enough standard 2D was the best experience because I focused on the characters and story more. 

 

Indie films can just be watched at home.

 

In the last 3 years, I've only seen The Batman and Avatar in cinemas. I was done with Marvel after Endgame, and will only go back to the cinema for the next Avatar and perhaps if the next Bond film looks good.

I’ve seen it twice so far but plan on a couple of more viewings but I haven’t been able to go again since before Christmas due to work and scheduling with friends.

 

I saw the regular frame rate version in 3d both times and it looked incredible so I’ll go to the same screening again probably. That cinema has amazing sound as well without the imax volume which is nice.

[Edmilson 4,984]

*Gimli voice* YES!

 

James Cameron Praises ‘Avatar 2’ Nearing $2 Billion: ‘Enough With Streaming Already! I’m Tired of Sitting on My A–’

 

No matter if it's a superhero blockbuster or a James Cameron epic, I'll always be on Team Theatrical Experience. I love Cameron going down on these streamers

[King Mark 3,225]

I saw it in Imax, it was ok but there's no way I would sit through this twice

[crumbs 12,973]

Did anyone else who saw the HFR version find the alternating framerate in the climax (the fight on the ship) kinda distracting?

 

My eyes became so conditioned to 48FPS that every time it cut back to 24FPS, it looked like the projector was having technical issues or skipping frames (it looked more like 12FPS with severe motion judder).

 

I think for future sequels I'd prefer Cameron just stuck to HFR for entire sequences, rather than alternating from shot to shot. A bit like IMAX sequences.

[Gurkensalat 320]

I watched it in an Imax, with HFR version advertised, and I did not notice anything specific. But I must say, I did not look out for artifact, was just immersed in the movie. First Movie theater visit since Episode 9, I must say. Next one: Indy 5. Everything else: my projection-based home theater. 

[leeallen01 2,036]

There were no HFR showings near me, but I did want to check out that format. I do remember, however, that The Hobbit was distracting in HFR, so I'm not too disappointed that I didn't get to experience it. 

 

I prefer the standard film format anyway. I had the best experience and most emotional engagement when I saw it in 2D standard.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,990]

$1.731 billion, and climbing.

[crumbs 12,973]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

There were no HFR showings near me, but I did want to check out that format. I do remember, however, that The Hobbit was distracting in HFR, so I'm not too disappointed that I didn't get to experience it. 

 

The HFR was distracting initially (it really stands out in the early scene where Jake and Neytiri are flying at night, before the humans return) but you get used to it quickly, to the point 24FPS feels more distracting than HFR.

[Hurmm 90]

4 hours ago, crumbs said:

Did anyone else who saw the HFR version find the alternating framerate in the climax (the fight on the ship) kinda distracting?

 

My eyes became so conditioned to 48FPS that every time it cut back to 24FPS, it looked like the projector was having technical issues or skipping frames (it looked more like 12FPS with severe motion judder).

 

I think for future sequels I'd prefer Cameron just stuck to HFR for entire sequences, rather than alternating from shot to shot. A bit like IMAX sequences.

It wasn't kinda distracting. 

 

It was extremely distracting. And I'm very surprised James Cameron was ok with this. It should have all been in either 24 or 48fps. None of this alternating stuff. 

[Muad'Dib 1,659]

14 hours ago, Edmilson said:

*Gimli voice* YES!

 

James Cameron Praises ‘Avatar 2’ Nearing $2 Billion: ‘Enough With Streaming Already! I’m Tired of Sitting on My A–’

 

No matter if it's a superhero blockbuster or a James Cameron epic, I'll always be on Team Theatrical Experience. I love Cameron going down on these streamers

 

....do people now stand up in the cinema?

[Mr. Who 717]

41 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

 

....do people now stand up in the cinema?

I think he’s referring to getting off your ass and leaving the house and sofa to go to the cinema lol

[blondheim 1,034]

Avatar 2 was the most fun I have had in a long time. I’m called a Cameron-hater by my friends. I’m not; I’m merely harder on him than his fanboys. But I have to hand him Avatar 2. There was some actual ambiguity in this movie. Maybe it’s just because it’s getting a sequel and we are planting seeds but I still really appreciated it. I’m definitely paying to see it again. A well-deserved win for him.

[Mr. Who 717]

17 minutes ago, blondheim said:

Avatar 2 was the most fun I have had in a long time. I’m called a Cameron-hater by my friends. I’m not; I’m merely harder on him than his fanboys. But I have to hand him Avatar 2. There was some actual ambiguity in this movie. Maybe it’s just because it’s getting a sequel and we are planting seeds but I still really appreciated it. I’m definitely paying to see it again. A well-deserved win for him.

It’s an amazing movie indeed! I’ve seen it twice but not since before Christmas and I’m really looking forward to seeing it a third time.

[Taikomochi 905]

10 hours ago, crumbs said:

Did anyone else who saw the HFR version find the alternating framerate in the climax (the fight on the ship) kinda distracting?

 

My eyes became so conditioned to 48FPS that every time it cut back to 24FPS, it looked like the projector was having technical issues or skipping frames (it looked more like 12FPS with severe motion judder).

 

I think for future sequels I'd prefer Cameron just stuck to HFR for entire sequences, rather than alternating from shot to shot. A bit like IMAX sequences.

This was exactly my experience. The 48 looks great once your eyes adapt to it, but when it cuts quickly back and forth, the 24 looks even lower. The worse instance is the “A Farewell to Arm” sequence, which is unfortunate because that part ruled otherwise.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,990]

23 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

... “A Farewell to Arm”...

Just the one?

[Mr. Who 717]

I think I read somewhere that fewer sequences were originally going to be in 48fps but that Cameron liked how it looked and used it more than originally planned. Not sure if this is true though.

[Naïve Old Fart 7,990]

If it's Cameron, it's true.

[Muad'Dib 1,659]

5 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

I think he’s referring to getting off your ass and leaving the house and sofa to go to the cinema lol

 Yea I know but you're still sitting still for 3-4 hours watching a screen.

[JNHFan2000 1,578]

Look I get what he's saying. I love the whole experience of seeing something in the cinema. I want to see all the new films in the cinema as much as I can, because I love it. I have a subscription for a cinemachain for which I pay monthly. If I go twice a month, I've spend the same as I would if I bought those tickets seperately. Since I go quite a bit more than 2 times a month, I save a lot of money.

 

But for a lot of people it's much cheaper to watch a movie at home on a streaming service that costs maybe as much as 1 ticket. And if they then watch it with multiple people they save a lot of money. So I really get both sides, but I do feel that there should be more of a balance.

 

Studios should take a harder look at the films they're making, because apparently audiences don't feel like most of the movies are cinema worthy for them. And although I don't really care for the Avatar films as a whole, this is one thing that apparently the films have been able to accomplish. Just like Top Gun & No Way Home have.

But I also feel that streaming should be more careful with the stuff and especially the quantity they put out. Because even someone like me, who watches a lot of stuff and is mostly up to date with it, it sometimes is getting too much.

 

So yeah I do get what Cameron is saying, but I feel for that to happen quite a few things have to change in both cinemas and on streaming.

[greenturnedblue 291]

2 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

apparently audiences don't feel like most of the movies are cinema worthy for them

That's because they can wait for the movie to come out on the streaming service they already pay for, and watch it effectively for free

[crumbs 12,973]

7 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

The worse instance is the “A Farewell to Arm” sequence, which is unfortunate because that part ruled otherwise.

 

Yes, that's the sequence where it felt most distracting (interesting that it always involved shots with humans/live action elements).

[thestat 250]

Totally amazing>

 

 that hook,,,,

And if Don Davis was here, he would be astonished by this cue:

 

[crumbs 12,973]

I'd love to see Franglen's score get an Oscar nom over Babylon. He deserves so much more recognition for what he's achieved here.

[JNHFan2000 1,578]

Does anyone think that maybe with one of Avatar sequels Franglen will be able to win an Oscar? Maybe with the final one when the full set of themes is complete?

[Mr. Who 717]

I definitively hope that Franglen wins an Oscar for Winther A2 or one of the next 3.

 

Regarding streaming vs theatrical, for some reason I am less likely to watch a movie I am interested in if it is released to streaming than if it’s released in cinemas first. When a movie is released in cinemas then it is something you go to, with friends, but if it’s released on streaming only I usually forget about it. At home I watch other things like tv shows or older movies new releases tend to get lost in my case.
 

I don’t see the problem with movies being released in theatres for a few months and then having the streaming release a few months after theatrical. Seems like a working model.

[leeallen01 2,036]

In an interview, Franglen mentioned something about completing the score late and not being able to get it out officially for awards stuff to hear it properly. So maybe that means no nominations for this award season? Not sure.

[Disco Stu 15,475]

The Academy branches began voting on nominees today and, correct me if I'm wrong, there's still no FYC site for just Franglen's score, right?  If they're not pushing it to Music Branch members by this point, it's not happening.

[mstrox 5,889]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:10 PM, Edmilson said:

I love Cameron going down on these streamers

[Jurassic Shark 9,810]

Who knows? Maybe he did.

[Mr. Who 717]

The Way of Water is nearing 2 billion and will pass No Way Home in the coming days and then Infinity War and Force Awakens and maybe Titanic.

 

https://variety.com/2023/film/box-office/avatar-2-box-office-milestone-nears-spider-man-no-way-home-1235489978/

[leeallen01 2,036]

Yeah it looks like 1.9 billion after this weekend, and 2 billion next weekend. 

 

Guess the top 3 biggest 5th weekends at the box office of all-time?

 

1) Avatar

2 Avatar: The Way of Water

3) Titanic 

 

Cameron lol.

[Mr. Who 717]

I am seeing the movie again next week!

[leeallen01 2,036]

1 minute ago, Mr. Who said:

I am seeing the movie again next week!

 

Lol, same here.

[TolkienSS 218]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Who said:

The Way of Water is nearing 2 billion and will pass No Way Home in the coming days and then Infinity War and Force Awakens and maybe Titanic.

 

https://variety.com/2023/film/box-office/avatar-2-box-office-milestone-nears-spider-man-no-way-home-1235489978/

 

It's hard taking "all time" numbers seriously when Titanic was 25 years ago and ticket prices as well as inflation were worlds apart. Let alone other films.

Even compared to 5-10 years ago "all time" is questionable.

[leeallen01 2,036]

1 hour ago, TolkienSS said:

 

It's hard taking "all time" numbers seriously when Titanic was 25 years ago and ticket prices as well as inflation were worlds apart. Let alone other films.

Even compared to 5-10 years ago "all time" is questionable.

 

Of course. Today I think the first Avatar would be 3.9 billion instead of 2.9.

 

But considering that worldwide inflation is basically all over the place, it's difficult to truly know the real figures based on today. So the current ones are all we've got, even if it's misleading.

[Disco Stu 15,475]

Just idle curiosity, but I wonder why this movie is under-performing so dramatically in Japan specifically.  I understand that "homegrown" films do very well in Japan (which is great!), but it isn't even performing close to as well as other American films from 2022.  It's been out a month and it hasn't even outgrossed Fantastic Beasts 3 yet and hasn't hit even 25% of Top Gun's total.

 

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/2022/?area=JP&grossesOption=totalGrosses&sort=rank&sortDir=asc

[Taikomochi 905]

It’s probably because the movie criticizes the whaling industry (said with semi-sarcasm)

[JNHFan2000 1,578]

Adjusted for inflation, Gone With The Wind is still the highest grossing film of all time.

 

Here is the Top 10 adjusted for inflaction (font's a bit weird, copied it from Wikipedia)

 

1	Gone with the Wind	$3,922,000,000	1939
2	Avatar	A$3,505,000,000	2009
3	Titanic	T$3,260,000,000	1997
4	Star Wars	$3,221,000,000	1977
5	Avengers: Endgame	AE$2,960,000,000	2019
6	The Sound of Music	$2,697,000,000	1965
7	E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial	$2,634,000,000	1982
8	The Ten Commandments	$2,493,000,000	1956
9	Doctor Zhivago	$2,363,000,000	1965
10	Star Wars: The Force Awakens	TFA$2,330,000,000	2015

[Jay 32,101]

OK I saw this film at the cinema on Saturday evening

 

My first question is: What was up with the number of fingers on their hands?

 

I rewatched the first film (extended cut) on Friday evening, and at no point in that movie did anyone mention anything about number of fingers, nor did I happen to notice that they didn't have 5 fingers on their hands

 

In Avatar 2, there's like 6 different times where a character mentions that Jake's kids are freaks because they have 5 fingers.  

 

Is this a retcon, or did I literally just nevernotice that the real Navi in the first film had 4 fingers while the dreamwalker/avatar fake-navi had 5, and also no one ever commented on it in dialogue throughout the entire first movie?

[greenturnedblue 291]

Reminds me of the Simpson's where Bart counts to five on his fingers, and counts 1-2-3-4 on one hand and one finger on the other

[Taikomochi 905]

44 minutes ago, Jay said:

OK I saw this film at the cinema on Saturday evening

 

My first question is: What was up with the number of fingers on their hands?

 

I rewatched the first film (extended cut) on Friday evening, and at no point in that movie did anyone mention anything about number of fingers, nor did I happen to notice that they didn't have 5 fingers on their hands

 

In Avatar 2, there's like 6 different times where a character mentions that Jake's kids are freaks because they have 5 fingers.  

 

Is this a retcon, or did I literally just nevernotice that the real Navi in the first film had 4 fingers while the dreamwalker/avatar fake-navi had 5, and also no one ever commented on it in dialogue throughout the entire first movie?

It’s not a retcon. The finger difference was present in the first film. They just never directly acknowledged it in the dialogue because everyone knew Jake was an outsider anyways vs. his kids that were trying to blend into the Metkayina tribe. They also make a point of them not having the water-specific features. 

[Jay 32,101]

Oh yea I noticed the water navi had totally different arms and stuff, but definitely never noticed they all only had 4 fingers in the first film.  It seems odd to be there wouldn't be one line of dialogue near the beginning that mentioned it

[Taikomochi 905]

Maybe they did. Seems like a ton was left on the cutting room floor

[leeallen01 2,036]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Oh yea I noticed the water navi had totally different arms and stuff, but definitely never noticed they all only had 4 fingers in the first film.  It seems odd to be there wouldn't be one line of dialogue near the beginning that mentioned it

 

 

It wasn't mentioned because it was common knowledge among the characters. E.g. the Na'vi and Avatars had been interacting for many years before the events of the first film, so the Omaticaya clan had seen it and probably pointed it out to death. Whereas the Metkayina Clan in the 2nd film have never come into contact with Avatars. So they wouldn't know the differences. Cameron was just using it as a bullying tool in the script, to signify differences of 'race' if you will. Forest physiology vs water physiology.

 

The kids obviously took characteristics from Jake's Avatar for Neteyam, Lo'ak and Tuk, and Grace's Avatar for Kiri (The human hands and feet). 

 

The first film does show clearly that Jake has five fingers and toes, e.g  when Cameron focuses on Jake being fascinated with being able to use his legs and wiggling his toes in the sand etc. And also many close ups of Neytiri's hands and feet as she performs tasks. But not so obviously mentioned.

 

You could've had a line in the first film of Jake saying something about their physical differences (as he's new to all of it) but it wasn't necessary to the story. Whereas it was necessary to the story in the 2nd film, as it was used to make the kids feel like outcasts amongst a foreign society.

[Jay 32,101]

Yea I legit just never noticed >shrug<

[leeallen01 2,036]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea I legit just never noticed >shrug<

 

I guess these kinds of details are the things you notice more if you dive deeper into a film as a fan. Once you've watched something a few times, you start to look past the story and into the lore, biology, etc of a film, and these things become known that wouldn't be known to a normal viewer.

[Andy 2,565]

Saw it for the first time in 3D IMAX today. 
 

Wonderful spectacle!  I really have to hand it to Cameron, he’s got balls to make it with such sincerity and lack of sarcasm or cynicism.  It makes the picture very vulnerable by playing itself so straight.   But it’s somehow purer, fairy tale escapism that may stand the test of time better than other blockbusters.  You could pick on it for taking itself so seriously, but what would be the point?  Bullying this film is somehow robbing yourself of some fine entertainment, at your expense, and no fault of the film. 
 

The guy is a showman.  I’ll forget about it in a few weeks, and don’t plan on attending any Avatar conventions, but Cameron had me in the palm of his four fingered hand.