Avatar 2, 3 and 4 or how James Cameron stopped worrying and pulled The Hobbit on us

[leeallen01 2,036]

I love that Titanic and Way of Water are essentially evenly matched now and it's a real contest to see which ends higher. This time around anyway, before all the decades of re-releases continue lol.

 

I'm seeing Titanic tomorrow and Avatar a 7th time on thursday (I know I have a problem haha). But I want to make the most of the cinema experience before I lose that ability (until the inevitable re-release of course). And especially when I get the biggest screens with Dolby Atmos sound all to myself.

[JNHFan2000 1,582]

I bet James Cameron will put all the Avatar films in cinemas again before a new one comes out. Every time. For 3 4 and 5

[Mr. Who 719]

14 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I bet James Cameron will put all the Avatar films in cinemas again before a new one comes out. Every time. For 3 4 and 5

I really hope he does!

[leeallen01 2,036]

Considering Cameron said that he moved a plot thread from the first act of The Way of Water, to the 1st act of the 4th film, I believe we could be getting a flashback to the larger arrival of the RDA, and the 1 year time jump he did. Perhaps an exploration of the comic book canon that Cameron wrote a treatment for, where the RDA offer the humans amnesty that chose to stay on Pandora, in exchange for them turning in Sully and his group. Also Jake blew up the Mines and refinery for the Unobtanium when the RDA refused to leave. Could be a cool flashback and more info on the missing year that Cameron jumped past.

[blondheim 1,034]

I think it’s more likely that the first act once included more information about how the RDA and Earth in general are going to make the move to Pandora if it is really vital and necessary to do so. More information about terraforming and the larger picture of the Pandora plan with more Ardmore stuff. I think this is why Thewlis and Yeoh are arriving in movie 3. Perhaps it will include a flashback to movie 2 time, who knows. However, I think it is more likely he will just set those scenes later in the chronology. The humans getting there is going to be a long process so it makes sense to isolate and concentrate on different areas of the story in each film. I love how intimate movie 2 is. Very excited to see the scope of 3. This will be Cameron’s first third directed film in a franchise. I can’t wait to see him take a story that far.

 

And I’m very surprised to be saying that. I’m still shocked I like it this much.

[leeallen01 2,036]

23 hours ago, blondheim said:

I think it’s more likely that the first act once included more information about how the RDA and Earth in general are going to make the move to Pandora if it is really vital and necessary to do so. More information about terraforming and the larger picture of the Pandora plan with more Ardmore stuff. I think this is why Thewlis and Yeoh are arriving in movie 3. Perhaps it will include a flashback to movie 2 time, who knows. However, I think it is more likely he will just set those scenes later in the chronology. The humans getting there is going to be a long process so it makes sense to isolate and concentrate on different areas of the story in each film. I love how intimate movie 2 is. Very excited to see the scope of 3. This will be Cameron’s first third directed film in a franchise. I can’t wait to see him take a story that far.

 

And I’m very surprised to be saying that. I’m still shocked I like it this much.

 

 

That's a good idea yeah, especially with the additional human character casting. And I think that Selfridge will be back too in some capacity.

 

I'm very much interested in the earth angle. I can't remember where I heard it, but I think John Landau teased a return to earth in the 4th film, so that may fit into your theory of exploring earth dying nature-wise, and the mass exodus.

[Naïve Old Fart 8,015]

AVATAR: THE WAY OF WATER is, officially, now the third most financially successful film if all time. 

Fyi, TITANIC is fourth.

[Jurassic Shark 9,819]

2 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

TITANIC is fourth.

 

A scandal!

[Naïve Old Fart 8,015]

[JNHFan2000 1,582]

What I think is cool (and doesn't get mentioned enough) is that Zoe Saldaña is the ONLY actor who is in the 3 highest grossing films of all time. And in 4 of the 5. That's incredible!!!

[Tom Guernsey 1,765]

1 hour ago, JNHFan2000 said:

What I think is cool (and doesn't get mentioned enough) is that Zoe Saldaña is the ONLY actor who is in the 3 highest grossing films of all time. And in 4 of the 5. That's incredible!!!

And I bet she’s paid less than lots of other (probably men) who are considered more famous “stars”… quite an achievement though, must watch some of the other films she’s been in lol 

[JNHFan2000 1,582]

I've only seen her in Avatar, Marvel, Star Trek, The Terminal and From Scratch (Series).

Oh and the first Pirates Of The Caribbean of course

[Tom Guernsey 1,765]

Just now, JNHFan2000 said:

I've only seen her in Avatar, Marvel, Star Trek, The Terminal and From Scratch (Series).

Oh and the first Pirates Of The Caribbean of course

Nothing too indie there 😜

[JNHFan2000 1,582]

Haha. No

 

I looked up her filmography and there is some more stuff of hers I've seen, it turns out.

 

Colombiana

Live By Night

Amsterdam

The Adam Project

Book Of Life, Missing Link, Vivo, Maya And The Three (all animated)

 

[TolkienSS 218]

44 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

And I bet she’s paid less than lots of other (probably men) who are considered more famous “stars”…

 

That's because they are

a. better actors, who

b. therefore shape more culturally relevant and recognizable characters, who

c. therefore star in better movies,

and

d. have leading roles that make a movie, instead of having supporting roles in movies that make them.

 

Saying Zoe Saldana made Avatar successful is like saying the Super Mario Bros movie will be successful because of Chris Pratt's voice.

[Naïve Old Fart 8,015]

... of course, rather like the towering thespian that is Sam Worthington.

Ffs, that dog don't hunt.

[leeallen01 2,036]

From seeing so much of the raw footage of her performance as Neytiri, she is sensational. I would happily watch the entire of Avatar and the Way of Water in its complete raw form of only performance capture footage. The performances, specifically Zoe's, are enthralling enough on their own. It'll be like watching a great stage play production.

[Yavar Moradi 1,827]

She's sidelined a bit in the sequel, but as someone who didn't care much for the original Avatar, Zoe Saldana's performance is the saving grace in it. She really sells the emotion and the relationship... and Worthington was like a plank of wood next to her (I thought his acting improved a lot in the sequel, to be fair).

 

Yavar

[leeallen01 2,036]

I enjoyed Sam Worthington's performances in both films. He nailed the feel of the character in the first film; a naive, single-minded and directionless man, who had nothing to really live for, yet had strong morals. I think it helped by this being a make-or-break role for him, as he was a struggling actor, unemployed and living in his car, so to be thrown into a mammoth film of such scope and unknown success, with a lot of risk, really mirrored his character's own journey in the film, with the kind of wide-eyed, deer in headlights type performance, where both Sam and Jake had no idea what they were doing, and had to learn on the fly.

 

Also his performance in the Way of Water feels very grounded in reality, which it is, as he started a family and they had children between both films, so he mirrored his character yet again and could relate completely to Jake's life.

 

I like how Sam and Zoe both joke in interviews about starting families between the two films, and how it was method acting that Cameron insisted on.

[leeallen01 2,036]

I think it's a good idea to keep the event films exclusively to the cinema, but I would love to see a tv series with a smaller subject, like the 13 year gap between 1 and 2, and what would be very interesting is a series set on earth. It would be far easier and cheaper to make with a fully human cast, and it'll give us a chance to see what earth is like.

 

 

[leeallen01 2,036]

A fascinating recording of Cameron and Landau at a Way of Water screening, where they spend an hour talking to the audience and treat it like a focus group, asking them to honestly critique the film and tell them what they did and didn't like. Some very honest answers of what people enjoyed and didn't enjoy and what they thought the film was lacking. Cameron explains the disappearance of the Metkayina at the end battle and addresses the frame rate, the 3D, and they all discuss in-depth all the character motivations and writing process behind the characters decisions.

 

A fascinating insight into Cameron's process and something I haven't really heard before (an audience directly critiquing a film to the filmmaker)

 

 

 

[Jay 32,111]

‘Avatar: The Way of Water’ Sets Digital Release Date, With Three Hours Of Bonus Material

 

 

[Gurkensalat 320]

Still hoping for a 3D Blu-ray release later in the year. The only way I will buy it is in 3D.

[NL197 366]

https://ew.com/movies/avatar-the-way-of-water-digital-release/

This details all of the bonus features. 

[leeallen01 2,036]

Hell yes. I love the behind the scenes of my favourite films just as much as the films themselves. It's fascinating information.

 

Hoping all of this (and maybe more) is on a physical release. 

[Jay 32,111]

Avatar 3’s 9-Hour Cut Could Be Released on Disney+ as a Mini-Series

[May the Force be with You 2,032]

That's could be interesting

[Mr. Who 719]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Avatar 3’s 9-Hour Cut Could Be Released on Disney+ as a Mini-Series

This is not true, it’s a rumour that was stated by someone on twitter. The rendering time for 9 hours would be physically impossible and would take years and years. Landau said that movies 2 and 3 are around 6 hours in total so I expect the third movie to be around 3 hours.

[Taikomochi 905]

Beyond how obviously not true that rumor is, why would anyone involved want to make a product that has to be seen at home from a franchise of which the major appeal of the theatrical experience?

[leeallen01 2,036]

Just give me a 9 hour cut in cinemas and I'll wear a diaper.

[Naïve Old Fart 8,015]

I wear a diaper every time I go to see my "special friend", but that is another story, for another time.

[GerateWohl 2,871]

20 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

This is not true, it’s a rumour that was stated by someone on twitter. The rendering time for 9 hours would be physically impossible and would take years and years. Landau said that movies 2 and 3 are around 6 hours in total so I expect the third movie to be around 3 hours.

But it is a great idea. We could watch the Navi kids learning to swim or to climb trees or just playing with toys, parents educating their children, blue people eating stuff, hunting and collecting stuff, chasing animals or running from animals, riding dragons, watch more and more Pandora landscapes, blue people watching sunsets, meeting other people talking about Pandora weather. Sounds exciting. What a missed opportunity.

I am sure ChatGPT could provide hours and hours of script for the extension (to be honest, I suspect it already created the existing scripts of what we saw).

[leeallen01 2,036]

10 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

But it is a great idea. We could watch the Navi kids learning to swim or to climb trees or just playing with toys, parents educating their children, blue people eating stuff, hunting and collecting stuff, chasing animals or running from animals, riding dragons, watch more and more Pandora landscapes, blue people watching sunsets, meeting other people talking about Pandora weather. Sounds exciting.

 

And what exactly is wrong with that?

 

This unironically sounds great.

 

Cameron said it himself; why does every scene in a film have to be slave to the plot? Films are visual storytelling. If you want a story purely for story sake, read a book. If you want visual storytelling, where a visionary invents an entire world with in-depth, heavily detailed plant and animal life that you can just experience in the most cinematic way possible, then Avatar is it.

 

Personally, I think modern day blockbusters rarely have time to breathe. They are packed with so much plot and you have no time to live with the characters and experience a world. Cameron has never been scared of letting his films breathe, which is why his films are the biggest of all time, because people want the ultimate cinematic visual storytelling experience.

 

The major criticism of Avatar is the plot is too simple. Yes, the main plot is simple, but the subtext is vast. The meaning is deep. I can't imagine how chaotic and unpleasant it would be in an Avatar film to relentlessly be thrown major plot point after major plot point every 5 minutes. The entire point of the Avatar films is to live in Cameron's invented world, and to feel like you're actually witnessing a real place that could exist. Not to fly through it all in favour of a complex and ultimately unnecessary story.

[crumbs 12,973]

1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

I can't imagine how chaotic and unpleasant it would be in an Avatar film to relentlessly be thrown major plot point after major plot point every 5 minutes.

 

Just watch The Rise of Skywalker.

[Not Mr. Big 4,246]

I don't like when people refer to Na'vi as "blue people".  Feels like a slur

[leeallen01 2,036]

How about Na'vi of colour or person of blue? 

[Sweeping Strings 1,770]

How about 'glorified Smurfs'? 

[GerateWohl 2,871]

10 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I don't like when people refer to Na'vi as "blue people".  Feels like a slur

But they actually are blue people. Aren't they?

[leeallen01 2,036]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

But they actually are blue people. Aren't they?

 

Wow!

 

So now all Na'vi look the same huh? How dare you! The Metkayina are a green colour. 

 

Please be more sensitive to the other Na'vi clans and don't generalise.

 

 

(I also feel like I should clarify that I am joking, because in modern times, no doubt someone has actually said this.)

[leeallen01 2,036]

 

I guess America has the film and 3 hours of behind the scenes now to watch, where us peasants in the UK have to wait til 4th April for some reason. I guess it takes a week to click the UK upload button.

[JoeinAR 1,894]

It should be pointed out that neither Avatar films sink to the gutter level of the Hobbit films.

[GerateWohl 2,871]

10 minutes ago, JoeinAR said:

It should be pointed out that neither Avatar films sink to the gutter level of the Hobbit films.

Yes. It watches the hairy Hobbit feet from below.

[leeallen01 2,036]

[leeallen01 2,036]

 

 

Finally got the film and the 3 hours of bonus features. Can't wait to see all the behind the scenes. I just hope they also release a physical dvd.

[midgemania 39]

21 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

Finally got the film and the 3 hours of bonus features. Can't wait to see all the behind the scenes. I just hope they also release a physical dvd.

Managed to finally watch them yesterday - there’s some very interesting things in there. A small but very moving moment in the behind-the-scenes footage is when 

 

Spoiler

Franglen gives a fitting and very moving tribute to Horner. He says something along the lines of “somebody else should be standing here”, and then the orchestra has moments silence. It’s very classy and incredibly moving

It was great to see the film again in a non-cinematic context, and it confirms my beliefs from seeing it at the movies. When comparing it with the soundtrack, the moments where Franglen’s music is left largely untouched are by far the most effective, and the moments where Cameron or the music editors have hacked it are much less impactful. I’m really hoping that they trust Franglen a little more in Avatar 3 and beyond, because it seems like his dramatic instincts are very very good. 

[leeallen01 2,036]

1 hour ago, midgemania said:

Franglen gives a fitting and very moving tribute to Horner. He says something along the lines of “somebody else should be standing here”, and then the orchestra has moments silence. It’s very classy and incredibly moving

 

Wow. Looking forward to seeing that. 

 

Yeah I'm sure Cameron has seen the overwhelming love for Franglen's score and will be very happy as the saga continues. 

 

Considering Avatar is made for the cinema experience, with the biggest screen you can find and dolby atmos sound and 3D etc etc, it surprises me everytime I see the first film and now with the second film at home. It's such a gorgeous film and a strong emotional experience for me, that I lose nothing by watching it at home. The cinema experience is just a great bonus way to see it.

[midgemania 39]

A really interesting thing I noticed is during 

Spoiler

The scene where the giant shark thing attacks Lo’ak

I thought that they had just spliced in Horner’s Thanator Attack cue from Avatar, but it seems I was wrong. There’s definitely some new material in there that is clearly derived from the Thanator cue, but is definitely not from A1. Cameron seems to have cut back and forth between Thanator and the new Franglen cue, which is perhaps why it’s not featured on the soundtrack. It’s a shame, as it sounds pretty interesting. 

[leeallen01 2,036]

Yeah I also like the narrative connection between those two scenes. A definite mirror narratively between Jake and his son. Jake being reckless and irresponsible and being chased by a predator, and then Lo'ak being reckless and irresponsible and being chased by a predator.

 

It made sense to use that music. I hope Cameron allows Franglen to write his own original pieces going forwards, based on Horner's universe, instead of cutting inbetween.

[Bilbo 3,706]

Is there no word on a physical release? 

[Jay 32,111]

You mean the movie itself, not the soundtrack right?

 

If you meant the movie, it's coming, but no news or release date is known yet

 

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Avatar-The-Way-of-Water-Blu-ray/102574/

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Avatar-The-Way-of-Water-4K-Blu-ray/316453/

 

If you meant the soundtrack, there was supposed to be a CD edition but then it never materialized.  So it seems at this point it won't happen unless Intrada can pull it off I guess.