InTheCity 140 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Recording Dates:3.30.93 - 4.7.932x 3 hour sessions per dayDennis Steals the Embryo and Journey to the Island were the first three hour sessionthe last piece recorded was high wire stunts12 Woodwinds4 trumpets6 horns4 bones2 tubas6 percussions2 keyboards1 piano/1 celeste double44 vocals2 harp8 basses12 celli14 viola30 violins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Interesting. From about BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY onwards, 64 strings appear to be the norm, with little to no deviation. In the Herb Spencer era there there was a gradual build in size (22 for IMAGES, 31 for TPE, 44 for JAWS, CE3K and JAWS 2, 52 for SW, 54 for ROTLA and ESTB etc.). Maybe thanks to the increasing volume of sound fx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Bones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Dildos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Interesting. From about BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY onwards, 64 strings appear to be the norm, with little to no deviation. In the Herb Spencer era there there was a gradual build in size (22 for IMAGES, 31 for TPE, 44 for JAWS, CE3K and JAWS 2, 52 for SW, 54 for ROTLA and ESTB etc.). Maybe thanks to the increasing volume of sound fx?The birth of the blockbuster. I think this has more to do with the increased budgets and styles of the films. Think about it this way, sound fx and score are ultimately just sliders on a mixing board. Going from 54 strings to 62 strings will have very little impact if any on what happens with a sound mixers final dub however, a film needing a sweeping score will have a richly balanced string section with these larger numbers. It also depends somewhat on what the concept for the score is. I notice in JP, thats quite a lot of violas which often provide the propolsive "motor" for the string section and some richness. I believe in the movie Troy, James Horner used more violas than first violins so in some cases, its an artistic choice to produce a style that fits the vision for the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Interesting. From about BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY onwards, 64 strings appear to be the norm, with little to no deviation. In the Herb Spencer era there there was a gradual build in size (22 for IMAGES, 31 for TPE, 44 for JAWS, CE3K and JAWS 2, 52 for SW, 54 for ROTLA and ESTB etc.). Maybe thanks to the increasing volume of sound fx? The birth of the blockbuster. I think this has more to do with the increased budgets and styles of the films. Think about it this way, sound fx and score are ultimately just sliders on a mixing board. Going from 54 strings to 62 strings will have very little impact if any on what happens with a sound mixers final dub however, a film needing a sweeping score will have a richly balanced string section with these larger numbers. It also depends somewhat on what the concept for the score is. I notice in JP, thats quite a lot of violas which often provide the propolsive "motor" for the string section and some richness. I believe in the movie Troy, James Horner used more violas than first violins so in some cases, its an artistic choice to produce a style that fits the vision for the film. Good points. I like to the think of the 70s/early 80s aesthetic as more like a water colour painting, with the late 80s/early 90s and onwards as an oil painting. Hence why smaller string numbers and 3/4 horns became less common. Maybe digital recording and Dolby DTS had a role in that too. About the violas - never of it like that. To quote two of my examples - ESTB and ROTLA both have the same total number of strings, yet the former's got 26 violins and 10 violas while the later has 24 violins and 12 violas. I guess for RAIDERS, Williams wanted a darker and grittier sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,353 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 "Journey To The Island" is an album track name that combines 3 separate cues, all of which would have been recorded separately - 2M3/3M1 "To The Island", 3M2 "The Dinosaurs", and 3M2A "The Entrance of the Park".Are you saying each of the 3 cues happened to be recorded on the same day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 ^ Good point (although I must be nitpicky and point out that it was 3 cues, not 4). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russds 8 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,353 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 InTheCity's source, or mine and Data's? InTheCity works for Sony recording studios, see his prior started threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTheCity 140 Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 I don't work at the scoring stage I just rent it a lot for cinesamples and our clients - today we were there doing some League of Legends for example. Thanks,MikeAnd yes you are right the 2nd cue was "to the island"Tuesday 3.30.93End Creditsan Ailing MonsterThe Entrance of the Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan345 3 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 I still can't believe Williams was able to get someone who plays an Eb oboe for this score, those things are basically nonexistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted August 15, 2013 Share Posted August 15, 2013 whoops, wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Interesting. From about BORN ON THE FOURTH OF JULY onwards, 64 strings appear to be the norm, with little to no deviation. In the Herb Spencer era there there was a gradual build in size (22 for IMAGES, 31 for TPE, 44 for JAWS, CE3K and JAWS 2, 52 for SW, 54 for ROTLA and ESTB etc.). Maybe thanks to the increasing volume of sound fx?I think it has to do with JW's personal budget. In the Jaws days he wasnt that established. A composer has to rent his own orchestra, he wasnt able to spend $100,000 on hiring the LSO back then. Nowadays for any of those films he would have used his present-day size orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan345 3 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The composer doesn't rent the orchestra, the studio pays for it and the contractor works out how many musicians he can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think MSM is saying the studio wouldn't pay for more musicians before JW was a hotshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymenard 54 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 But where other orchestra that big at the time, I mean except some specific scores from time to time? No. It's more that as sound FX got more and more control over the sound field of a movie and recording techniques got better, a larger orchestra could be orchestrated in a much better way to "battle" or to the opposite, to "help" the sound editing, If you start targeting certain frequency range depending on what you would hear on the screen at any moment. This wasn't possible until the mid 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Interesting to note - Jerry Goldsmith's THE BLUE MAX (1966) had 66 strings (32 violins)! That's a huge amount for the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan345 3 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 What were the string sections like in the golden age scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Don't think they were that big, but I could be wrong. The smaller string size thing might just be a Silver Age aesthetic. That said, Leonard Rosenman had 28 violins, 12 violas, 12 cellos and 8 basses (60 in total) on REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Wasnt that a low budget affair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan345 3 Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I think there's a possibility they could be fairly big since the studios had their own orchestras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Recording Dates:3.30.93 - 4.7.932x 3 hour sessions per dayDennis Steals the Embryo and Journey to the Island were the first three hour sessionthe last piece recorded was high wire stunts12 Woodwinds4 trumpets6 horns4 bones2 tubas6 percussions2 keyboards1 piano/1 celeste double44 vocals2 harp8 basses12 celli14 viola30 violinsA question - how would you generally divide a mixed choir of 44 members? Would it be divided equally into 4 (12:12:12:12), or would it be more women than men (28:16 or 26:22)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan345 3 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think it's more women than men but I don't know much about vocal arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,913 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Generally, the higher pitch needs more reinforcement but there are exceptions. For example, there are more violins than violas than celli than bass. But there are a lot of reasons why this might not be the case. For example, in the movie, Troy, there were more violas than violins because Horner wanted a deeper tone. Perhaps a movie needs a lower timbre so that might be reflected in the vocal distribution. Also, mics add a complication to this because you can isolate or raise levels in relation to other registers. With no specific information, I would assume JW used a "concert" approach which probably means there were more sopranos than bass. Isn't there someone on this site who sang on Episodes 1-3 so they can probably tell you exactly what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 What are the concert numbers? 6 basses, 10 tenors, 12 altos and 16 sopranos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTheCity 140 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 I would personally always divide equally - the breakdown doesn't say what it was.3 m50 microphones were used as the L/C/R Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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