Jump to content

.


BloodBoal
 Share

Recommended Posts

To be honest, I don't think it works well, but removing the betting bit fucked everything up. I'm starting to believe that it wasn't a last minute addition, for two reasons: firstly, it transitions directly into the handkerchief bit (it is on the exact same shot that Gandalf receives some money and as he puts it in his bag, Bilbo starts sneezing) and secondly, if you remove it, you end up with a weird "chain of events" (for lack of a better term): they put Bilbo on a pony, then directly after that, you see him sneezing. It feels weird, and I highly doubt that's how the scene was supposed to play out.

Actually, I could see this working if the scene cuts from Bilbo being set on the horse, to him sneezing, to him whining about something, to him doing something else that the company finds wimpy, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is there any chance you could try lining up the start of the track with earlier in the scene, and edit out the betting part, and see how that works?

Well, that's the best I could come up with (note that I uploaded this video before you posted your last comments, LeBlanc):

To be honest, I don't think it works well, but removing the betting bit fucked everything up. I'm starting to believe that it wasn't a last minute addition, for two reasons: firstly, it transitions directly into the handkerchief bit (it is on the exact same shot that Gandalf receives some money and as he puts it in his bag, Bilbo starts sneezing) and secondly, if you remove it, you end up with a weird "chain of events" (for lack of a better term): they put Bilbo on a pony, then directly after that, you see him sneezing. It feels weird, and I highly doubt that's how the scene was supposed to play out.

Yes! I think you've nailed it! I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is exactly correct!! It's awesome!

~~~

EDIT:

Oh no, no no no. I have just been playing around with the film and OST track, and I am 100% convinced I know where the opening part goes.

So in the film, the "Adventure Begins" sequence ends with the shot of Bilbo running towards camera, saying "I'm going on an adventure!". The very next shot is an establishing shot of the forest, which pans down to reveal the company. In the next shot, Bilbo is shown running towards them. The length of this first shot is exactly the same as the length of the opening of "The World Is Ahead", up until Bilbo's Theme enters. So basically, if you start the OST track right on that establishing shot of the forest, everything lines up perfectly for a while, all the way through the Fussy Theme, which was meant for the shots of the dwarves picking him up and putting him on his pony and them beginning to ride away. It's perfect!

Now, it goes out of sync after that (at about 1:20 of the OST track) - either because the OST track is an early composition when neither the betting scene of the handkerchief scene was in the film, or the OST track had the original betting scene and handkerchief scene music microedited out for listening experience purposes. No way to tell.

Seriously, try this out yourself, it fits PERFECTLY. You can probably find a way to make the OST track play through unedited, by editing out the video of the betting and handkerchief scenes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I originally thought it should begin at the start of the season, as that scene where Bilbo is running could do with some music, and this is perfect. As you say, it's just that it goes out of sync after the initial part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I think we might be getting closer to Shore's original intention:

Yes! I think this is exactly right. At least, it's exactly right if the OST track is microedited to remove the original betting scene and most of the hadkerchief scene. I think it's still possible that the OST track is a non-edited full recording, of a cut of the scene that had no betting or handkerchief bits at all (perhaps when there was only going to be 2 films). I assume we'll find out eventually!

P.S.: This is the last time I'm doing this, Leblanc! You better not come up with another idea after this! :stick:

Wha? Don't be mad, this was a great collaborative effort to figure out Shore's intentions!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, once he was done with everything I was going to ask him to circle back and do An Ancient Enemy :P



Too bad 31 seconds of the cue were snipped out of the OST track at the 4:33 mark, and you'll have to remove some video.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm talking about the 31 seconds of music snipped out of the OST track at 4:33

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Possibly my favourite sequence in the film, made even better with the choral parts intact (especially the first bit).

Very much looking forward to the Radagast stuff. I have a few ideas in my head of where everything should go so it'll be interesting to see what you come up with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bolg looks so awesome, I wish he was the one that was chasing the company in the film instead of Azog.

BTW, who is the mohawked Dwarf?

Anyways, love the video, isolated scores are always fun to watch to me. I don't think removing the choir affected the scenes too drastically in the final film, the general atmosphere created by the cue is was carries things forward.

~~

Radagast The Brown will be impossible to do much with, since most of the music in the track is for footage removed from the Theatrical Cut that will (hopefully) be restored in the EE. Might not be worth doing much with that track until the EE comes out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well clearly we have a Gandalf's arrival at Minas Tirith style situation going on with the deluxe soundtrack, as we're presented with two cues for Radagast's trip to Dol Guldur. The track confirms that PJ originally intended it to be one whole sequence, though I think it works better as it is in the final cut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I completely disagree with you there. What is the basis for your theory?

You think that the use of the Necromancer themes at the end of the track followed by Sauron's theme is for the "Necromancer revealed" scene which is currently in the film as a flashback during his meeting-up with the company? And you think Shore would have presented both versions of the scene on the SE CD?

EDIT: OK, I'm starting to warm up to your theory a little bit the more I think about it, actually....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well clearly we have a Gandalf's arrival at Minas Tirith style situation going on with the deluxe soundtrack, as we're presented with two cues for Radagast's trip to Dol Guldur. The track confirms that PJ originally intended it to be one whole sequence, though I think it works better as it is in the final cut.

Actually, I believe that the last part of the extended version of that track (from 5'10 to the end) is an alternate for Radgy talking to Gandalf about his exploration of Dol Guldur.

That's exactly what Barnald is saying as well...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well clearly we have a Gandalf's arrival at Minas Tirith style situation going on with the deluxe soundtrack, as we're presented with two cues for Radagast's trip to Dol Guldur. The track confirms that PJ originally intended it to be one whole sequence, though I think it works better as it is in the final cut.

Actually, I believe that the last part of the extended version of that track (from 5'10 to the end) is an alternate for Radgy talking to Gandalf about his exploration of Dol Guldur.

That's roughly what I'm saying, since I believe the flashback would have been the same, but I wonder if the original edit of the film transitioned straight to Radagast arriving at Dol Guldur after the establishing shot of the fortress and it playing out from there. Otherwise I wonder why they included this passage of music at the end of that track?

Then again, I suppose there has to have been some kind of expositionary scene between Radagast and Gandalf after he arrives at the Trollshaws. So if I am right that would have had to have played out very differently. Either way, I definitely agree that it is merely an alternate composition for the Radagast in Dol Guldur scene.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I listened to the track again, and now I'm completely on board with this new theory!

Here's how I think it might have worked:
0:00-0:50 Gandalf tells the company about the 5 Wizards, we see Radagast in the forest
0:50-3:40 Radagast realizes something is wrong, hurries back to his house with Sebastian, and tries to heal him, with the music climaxing from 3:30-3:40 as the blue crystal works and heals him
3:40-4:45 The spiders recede from his roof, at 3:50 he takes off his his sled and travels through the forest, across plains, whatever, towards Dol Goldur - most of this footage was removed from the final film when it was decided to not show his Dol Goldur visit until he meets up with the company, so the video will have to be a black screen here
4:45-end Radagast arrives at Dol Goldur and the scene plays out somewhat like in the final film culminating in him seeing the Necromancer, you'll have to use black screens when it shows Radagast talking to Gandalf about it.
What do you think?
This might help:
I couldn't find a youtube video containing the rest of the spiders receding, and the "Show me" part...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What are you talking about? The music from 3:40-4:45 isn't sinister, it's traveling music featuring Radagast's Theme on fiddle and his backing theme on choir! The sinister music begins at 4:45, when he arrives at Dol Guldur!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it did originally play all the way through as part of a longer scene, I wonder if the opening bars of the Necromancer theme were meant to score deleted scenes of Radagast tentatively assessing his options before crossing the bridge? However, if they fit perfectly over the Gandalf/Radagast discussion it would suggest differently.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah! My bad! I didn't actually check the timestamps. :lick: I was convinced it was the sinister music right after that.

Yeah, that's a possibility (although I'm not entirely sold on this).

Only one way to find out... make the video! :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yay!

if you post them in the next 6 hours, I can comment on them today, otherwise I won't see them until Sunday!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW, I do think it's possible that the "Show me"/sled reveal music was microedited out of the album, and the part at 3:50 where the fiddle theme kicks back in was meant for a part after that... who knows.

Don't forget this production diary that opens with this scene:

I think it would be odd that it would be in the video if it was indeed a last-minute rescore, I think the video kinda helps prove it was always Shore's intended music for the scene and he just didn't include it on the album... but again, who knows...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think there was "main recording sessions" and then "re-score sessions", I think he was continually writing and recording music all year long up until the picture was locked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recording sessions were going on from August right up to the film premiere I believe.



OK, so here it is: An Ancient Enemy (who should be dead, but isn't).

Not much to say about this one, except that, as I mentioned in my previous post, all of it was used in the film, although there are two parts where the choir was removed (1'28 - 2'02 and 3'33 - 3'57).

On a sidenote: for those who never noticed, you can see Bolg at 3'24.

This one was obviously the easiest video to do so far. The next one will probably be the hardest to get right: it's time for Radagast The Brown!

That was fun to watch. Made me appreciate the cue a lot more.



OK, I listened to the track again, and now I'm completely on board with this new theory!

Here's how I think it might have worked:
0:00-0:50 Gandalf tells the company about the 5 Wizards, we see Radagast in the forest
0:50-3:40 Radagast realizes something is wrong, hurries back to his house with Sebastian, and tries to heal him, with the music climaxing from 3:30-3:40 as the blue crystal works and heals him
3:40-4:45 The spiders recede from his roof, at 3:50 he takes off his his sled and travels through the forest, across plains, whatever, towards Dol Goldur - most of this footage was removed from the final film when it was decided to not show his Dol Goldur visit until he meets up with the company, so the video will have to be a black screen here
4:45-end Radagast arrives at Dol Goldur and the scene plays out somewhat like in the final film culminating in him seeing the Necromancer, you'll have to use black screens when it shows Radagast talking to Gandalf about it.
What do you think?

That's pretty much how I imagined it. I can't wait to hear those statements of Sauron's theme in context. Hurry up BloodBoal! :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, listening to "The Hill Of Sorcery" now, and one thing the "Radagast The Brown" track is missing is the music for Radagast running away after seeing The Necromancer. Maybe there was always going to be flashbacks shown when he meets up with the company, and the original cut only hard part of the Dol Guldur sequence earlier in the film

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, I mean they filmed Radagast saying things to Gandalf about seeing The Necromancer, so it's odd to think they film might have originally shown him seeing the Necromancer during his introduction scene. But then why would Sauron's Theme be at the end of the Radagast track?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.