.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

OK, OK, I realize you can't be reasoned with, so I give up!

Search your feelings, you know it to be true!

It's 3 against 1

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,346]

Ahem. they had huorns.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,346]

Just watched it. What's the problem? Looks fine to me.

And it's not about personal preference. It's about what makes the more sense.

The choir appears when its just the hobbits and the nazgul is not even on screen! its a mess!

My point is what does not make sense to us is what Shore intended.

[KK 3,307]

Great vids BB! I think the first one was more accurate. The choral humming appropriately reflects Bilbo's contemplation and I think the hi-strings tremolos works better right before he's about to take the ring off (as shown in test 1) than cutting into Bilbo's speech time (as shown in test 2). Pity none of this showed up in film.

I also liked how the original music worked at 5:53. I was wondering where that music would fit, and I think it worked very well!

And finally, hearing the crazy aleatoric brass and the underlying menacing rhythms working so brilliantly with the picture reminded me of how awesome Shore's original instincts usually are (even though the great moments I mentioned largely made it onto the final film unharmed). 4:05 just sends the chills down my spine. I like that shot too.

[Jay 37,352]

Funny, I thought the second video was more likely how Shore scored it. I had to watch them quickly though - Will post more thoughts later.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

My guess is that Shore felt the album already had enough Company theme statement and wanted to remove one, so he picked that one.... maybe because, as has been speculated, it was a "wild" recording meant to be inserted wherever as needed - who knows.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,346]

Perhaps what it built to originally was music that someone ( perhaps Jackson or Shore) felt was out of place with the music in the rest of the film? like the choral incantation music for the Flight to the Ford in FOTR or something?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,346]

Well, its practically clean in my edit.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,346]

What IS good enough for you?

[gkgyver 1,645]

An Unexpected Journey Complete Archival Edition. 5 hours of music, comprising unedited film versions, unedited album versions, alternates, orchestral suites and demos. Plus two DVDs with the music in high end sound, a video feature about the making of the score, and a thick booklet with analysis by Doug and a handwritten letter of apology signed by Doug and Shore for the presentation of the score in the film.

Nothing less than that!

[Faleel 5,346]

An Unexpected Journey Complete Archival Edition. 5 hours of music, comprising unedited film versions, unedited album versions, alternates, orchestral suites and demos. Plus two DVDs with the music in high end sound, a video feature about the making of the score, and a thick booklet with analysis by Doug and a handwritten letter of apology signed by Doug and Shore for the presentation of the score in the film.

I can ask no more than that.

[Incanus 5,714]

An Unexpected Journey Complete Archival Edition. 5 hours of music, comprising unedited film versions, unedited album versions, alternates, orchestral suites and demos. Plus two DVDs with the music in high end sound, a video feature about the making of the score, and a thick booklet with analysis by Doug and a handwritten letter of apology signed by Doug and Shore for the presentation of the score in the film.

Nothing less than that!

Shouldn't that be an apology from PJ, not Shore in that last case?

[Jay 37,352]

Brass Buttons comments!

First of all, I'm sure you got everything right from 0:00-5:14, so no worries there. Specifically, I'd like to mention:

0:00-0:41 - Bilbo tries to find a way out / Gollum finds him / Bilbo squeezes through the opening and loses his buttons - As you mentioned, this was already used as intended, and I just love it, and glad it wasn't changed. Love this version of Gollum's Menace Theme

0:41-1:18 - The ring slips on Bilbo's finger and Gollum takes off - I LOVE this new varation of the History of the Ring theme so much!!! Shore nailed the way to score this scene. So disappointing that in the final film it was replaced with that short more LOTR-sounding History of the Ring statement and then no music at all for the rest of the sequence. Bah!

1:18-4:24 - Goblintown Escape - wow! This was so fun to watch! As you mentioned, somehow taking the sound effects and dialogue out - not to mention shortened the sequence considerably (no boulder roll!) makes the sequence kinda come to life and seem more fun and less over the top. Cool to watch. Also, I love Shore's intention for the falling moments from 3:42-3:56, too bad they were dialed out in the film!

4:24-6:30 - The Pity of Bilbo - Well as you mentioned, the music from 4:24-5:14 is used in the final film exactly as shown here, and I think Shore did a great job with it. Now, after that, I think you made one little mistake that throws off EVERYTHING after that point, and it's kinda funny because the actual syncing actually really easy to replicate!

Hopefully I can explain this well. OK, at 5:14 of your video, the shot is Bilbo taking out his sword and bringing it to Gollum's neck, then pulling it back ready to strike. All this is scored in the final film with a bit of suspense music that isn't on the album, but IS in the end credits version of the cue. Then next shot in the final film is a pull back shot of Gollum crouching by the rock, and the Pity of Gollum theme comes in - which is the next thing you hear on the album instead of that missing suspense music. However, in your video, the Pity of Gollum statement has already begun playing over the "Bilbo prepares to strike" bit, obviously. So basically, I think everything in your video from 5:14-end (either version) is off by about 10 seconds! Now - I can completely understand why you thought you were right, as several moments do COINCIDENTALLY happen to line up.... for example the mood of the music changing at 5:49 right when Bilbo lowers his sword, Gollum cursing Bilbo as the music climaxes around 6:27, the cut to the hillside right when the music changes at 6:30, etc. However, I truly and 100% think this is a coincidence, and neither of your videos shows Shore's intentions after the 5:14 mark!!

Luckily, to see Shore's intentions is actually VERY simple! Simply pause the OST track right at the start of that Pity of Gollum statement at 5:14, and then play the movie during that "Bilbo prepares to strike" sequence scored with the suspenseful inset missing on the album (2:18:50ish). As soon as it cuts to the pull back shot of Gollum, unpause the OST track and watch the ENTIRE end of the OST track sync PERFECTLY to picture!!

Don't beleive me? Here's a little guide to show all the sync points:

2:19:00 Pullback shot of Gollum perfectly syncs to Pity of Gollum theme moment [5:14]

2:19:07 Second phrase of Pity of Gollum perfectly syncs to a shot of Gollum's face [5:22]

2:19:27 Bilbo lowers his sword as the mood changes [5:40]

2:19:34 Bilbo has made up his mind as the music gets noble [5:49]

2:19:44 Music quickens right when Bilbo gets the running start for his jump [5:58]

2:20:03 Music climaxes as Gollum curses Bilbo [6:17]

2:20:15 Music changes as we cut to dusk [6:30]

2:20:39 Quiet music as the dwarves discuss Bilbo and how he's lost [6:53]

2:20:59 Humming choir as Bilbo listens in on Thorin dissing him [7:14]

2:21:13 Cool strings as Bilbo ponders what to do.... ending right when he presents himself! [7:26] (The tracked music in the film actually ends right at the same point!)

So voila!

Short version: Your video from 0:00-5:14 is perfect, and at that point you either need to edit in the 10 seconds of missing music from the end credits, OR do an about 10 second blip out of footage there and everything will sync fine

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

Perfect!

... though no need to call it "Test 3" - the other two videos were tests, and this is clearly right

BTW, I don't think the music microedited out of the album sounds weird or not in-tune with the rest of the cue at all.... it's pretty perfect for the moment it scores, and also sounds fine with the rest of the music. And it's exactly the kind of music Shore tends to microedit out of album tracks.

[Incanus 5,714]

Stupendous work again BB. I have no long commentary to offer on Brass Buttons but to say that the 3rd test would seem to fit extremely well in most respects. Again awesome work on all these videos!

[Jay 37,352]

Bloodboal, I quite enjoy that you are making videos for each exact album track, and I look forward to what you come up with for Out Of The Frying Pan and A Good Omen.

However, I have a question. In the past you also made alternate videos - for example that replacement bit for Thorin's charge in My Dear Frodo. After you do those last 2 album tracks, would you consider making some more alternate videos?

Two I was thinking of that have clean music available would be My Dear Frodo with the extra Old Bilbo music from the score featurette (Faleel already did it but in low quality and without the rest of the album track) and Brass Buttons with the End Credits bit inserted back in.

Thoughts?

And then, beyond the clean music, maybe you could do some of the lengthier unreleased cues from the rear channel rips, like Gandalf Leaves, Gundabad Wargs, Bilbo Packs / Homesick / We Don't Belong Anywhere, or Bilbo's speech before OOTFP?

Thoughts?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

Well, even regardless of clean music buried in menus and documentaries and such, you'll have to re-do your "White Council" and possibly "Radagast The Brown" and "Old Friends" videos (and who knows what others) with EE footage in place of Missing Footage tags

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

Still, you could do that extended Brass Buttons with the end credits bit put back in right now

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

Do it! He'll never stop

[Jay 37,352]

I wish the EE was coming out sooner than November 5th.....

BTW, how goes progress on Out Of The Frying Pan?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

OOoooooh! How much of the final film did you have to snip out to fit the album track?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

Interesting! Can't wait to see it!

[Incanus 5,714]

Does the segment of Brass Buttons in end credits seem to have very slightly more prominent cimbalom for the Gollum material than the album take. Or am I hearing things?

[KK 3,307]

Test 3 is perfect! And I've got to say I really enjoyed watching that video! Despite Jackson's faults, the crazy sleeping angles and video game action was fun. And this scene REALLY benefited from the music though! Awesome.

[Jay 37,352]

Yea! It's my favorite video along with Warg Scouts, Riddles in the Dark, and Radagast The Brown

[Incanus 5,714]

Yea! It's my favorite video along with Warg Scouts, Riddles in the Dark, and Radagast The Brown

Ditto. These videos have helped a lot with understanding especially the unused music in context. If anything it makes you appreciate Shore's original intentions more than before as they do fit many of these sequences like a glove.

[Jay 37,352]

Yea! I already loved the score, but BloodBoal's videos have indeed made me grow to appreciate the score more! I know it's been said before but Shore's original instincts for many scenes are more unique and interesting, and almost all the rescores seem to veer towards familiar territory (usually by reusing LOTR themes) not to mention can be more on the nose with their emotional manipulation as opposed to the more subtle original cues.

Of course beyond BloodBoal, praise must be given to Shore for wanting to released these unused versions in the first place, and WB for allowing a lengthy 2CD set that can contain them all.

[Jay 37,352]

It's finished. I'll upload it and post it tonight.

Is it "tonight" where you are yet?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,352]

Wow, another cool video! I'd say you got everything right, as far as I can tell!

0:00-2:18 - as you said this was used in the film more or less, so it still works. Maybe a few shots were rejiggered around from when Shore scored it, but overall it works.

I am now sure you are pretty correct that after 2:18, Shore made a microedit to the album removing the music for Azog's dialogue.....

2:18-3:21 This fast music certainly syncs well to the footage of the dwarves scrambling up the trees, changing tone right when the trees begin to fall, so I think you got this right too. I like Shores method of scoring this!

3:21-4:18 The original pinecone music restored! I think this works wonderfully! Shore scored this sequence superbly, with all the fear and dread of the preceding music going away and instantly becoming a heoric fanfare when the fire works and scares the wargs away

4:18-end The original music for Thorin's charge! I certainly like this much better than the Nazgul variant of the final film. I like how it envokes the earlier choir music from the Moria sequence as Azog kicks Thorin's ass.

Well done!

BTW, I forgot how STUPID it is that Azog whacks Thorin IN THE FACE with a GIANT MACE and it doesn't give him as much as a scar. It would DESTROY his face!!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,352]

BTW, BloodBoal, I dunno if you have already done A Good Omen or not, but I thought this could help:

On Doug's blog a user asked this:

As a matter of interest, Doug, do you know what exact moment in the film the wonderful theme heard at 0:33 in "A Good Omen" was meant to play over? It's also, of course, the theme that opens the entire score, and I like the way the soundtrack CDs are book-ended by it.

And Doug replied:

It coincided with a wide shot of the trees in the midst of the Eagles sequence.

http://www.musicoflotr.com/2012/12/notes.html#comment-882792228

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Some of these videos are real eye-openers. I remember sitting in the cinema and being disappointed by the music. There was far too much reliance on old material. My girlfriend felt the same way and she's only an occassional listener of soundtracks. I also remember talking to other people who felt The Breaking of the Fellowship in the middle of Rivendell took them out of the film (since that melody was used to signal the oncoming end of the picture in both The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers) and being at least mildly confused by Thorin walking down the tree being accompanied by Nazghûl music. It really sounds like that music was plopped in there because they needed some powerhouse choral cue. Never mind its connection to bad guys that aren't even in the game yet at this point in the story. Lame.

Thanks for making these, BloodBoal!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Out of the Frying-Pan: Perfect BB! I completely concur with the way you have cut this one! I lined up the music with the film for this segment for my analysis earlier and your version is exactly the same and I do believe we both have gotten it pretty close to the version Shore scored. Another great video!

Jason, the section with the furious cyclical strings for the falling trees is indeed a wonderful musical moment, one of my favourites in the score in fact. Such cool swashbuckling feel there.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

The Thorin versus Azog scene is incomparably better here than in the film. I don't know what they were thinking...

Thanks for all of these, BloodBoal. Can't wait to see the ending.

[Incanus 5,714]

The Thorin versus Azog scene is incomparably better here than in the film. I don't know what they were thinking...

Yes indeed. Shore's original choral piece works like gangbusters with the images.