Holko 9,526 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 JK retconned it on her website, saying, like the Imperius curse, enough willpower or magical power can make someone resist it. And in that situation, Fudge just wanted to save face and "execute" him as fast as possible. A known mass murderer on the loose for months has impacted his image significantly, imagine if he said "well he's innocent now, 3 children, an old fart and a murderous madman said the real culprit lived as a rat for 12 years". bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 5 hours ago, kaseykockroach said: Dobby x Snape. "Master has taken virginity. Dobby is free!" It actually went like Snape fucks Dobby wearing a condom and then throws his cum filled used condom at him. "Master has presented Dobby with clothes. Dobby is free!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 O-Okay, now THAT is going too far.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Yeah that’s definitely a step too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Holy jumping Jesus on a breadstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,287 Posted March 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2018 On 3/15/2018 at 8:11 AM, Chen G. said: Far be it from me to defend the last film - I do think its quite a let-down. But I do find that I like the later films (from 3 going forward) more than the first two, which I know stuck very close to the book. I stopped reading Harry Potter after a while, and I even only watched the later film adaptations very recently, so my point of view on the subject is an entirely cinematic one. If I watch a film and like it, whether it is like the source material or not is a none-issue. Adaptations exist to serve the film, not the source material. Even in the last film, I find most of the issues to stem from what at least seems like sticking to the source material, rather than from changes: I don't take issue with the splitting of the book into two features, for instance. But I do take issue when something is planted but isn't payed off: We learn that Bellatrix killed Neville's parents, only for her to be killed by Mrs. Wisley? A more audacious (read: a better) screenwriter will have changed that, but JK Rowling wouldn't have any of that. 2 The thing about Mrs. Weasley killing Bellatrix in the book that makes that moment valuable to the story and that the film doesn't communicate is that it's paying off the theme of parents sacrificing themselves for their children. Coming after what a major plot point Lily's sacrifice turned out to be, it sticks out in the book where Bellatrix is targeting Ginny and then taunting Mrs. Weasley over Fred's death during their fight. That's why "Not my daughter you bitch!" was such a popular line; profanity aside, it resonated with readers to see their favorite mother putting herself on the line for her children at the end of this story, and it makes a good, unexpected image to pit these two women against each other. Mrs. Weasley is all love, Bellatrix all hate, their reasons for fighting are completely opposite. Also coming after the moment where we see that all Mrs. Malfoy cares about is her son, and she proves it by saving Harry at risk to herself and quietly leaving the Death Eaters. As for Neville, his arc is paid off in the leadership role he assumes in Harry's absence at Hogwarts and the moment where he stands up to Voldemort in front of all his friends and enemies (including Bellatrix) and retrieves the Gryffindor sword from the Sorting Hat (resolving his anxieties about never being "a true Gryffindor", never living up to his parents' legacies) and kills the snake right then and there, in front of Voldemort, Bellatrix, and everyone else. I didn't need to see him kill Bellatrix because destroying the last Horcrux with the sword he never thought he deserved was that poor, scared kid's ultimate revenge against her and everyone else who thought he was worthless. I don't think it would have been so great to have him kill Bellatrix, because that's not what those books or movies were about. Not one good character ever kills somebody for revenge. In those stories, revenge backfires and mercy/sacrifice pays off. Like, it's impossible to miss because she gets so fucking didactic about it in her writing, but these themes and plot points eventually tied together in a way that I found moving and fitting for just about all the characters. It's why Harry's final act against Voldemort is to disarm him instead of kill him, with Voldy bringing about his own downfall when his Avada Kedavra rebounds. It's why Harry and Draco each get a moment to save each other's lives that spares them both in the end. The last movie underwhelms not because they didn't have the guts to change plot points to better suit a movie, but because so many of those big character statements that were perfectly filmable are barely communicated with any real weight or attempt to charge them emotionally in cinematic terms. Mrs. Weasley vs Bellatrix, Harry saving Malfoy from the Fiendfyre, Neville killing the snake, Harry vs Voldemort. The way these are written, directed, acted, edited, scored...they're just action beats. Neville vs Bellatrix probably would have been no different. Jay, Smaug The Iron, Not Mr. Big and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 6 hours ago, mrbellamy said: and kills the snake right then and there Ron and/or Hermione should have killed the snake, and Neville should have killed Bellatrix. A character doesn't have to pay-off in just one way. They should pay-off and any and every way that was planted. I think the rest is just providing excuses for the writers to stick to the source material, even when it clearly goes against the most basic (and important) elements of narrative structure. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted March 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2018 In Neville killing Nagini, there's also some of "Huh, I could have been the Chosen One but you didn't find me of enough worth? Well eat this and see if I'm worthless!". Pieter Boelen, Smaug The Iron and Bilbo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrbellamy 6,287 Posted March 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: Ron and/or Hermione should have killed the snake, and Neville should have killed Bellatrix. A character doesn't have to pay-off in just one way. They should pay-off and any and every way that was planted. Why? Says who? There's always give and take with expectations in drama. Some are paid off exactly as expected while others get twisted, subverted, altered, undone. Stories are at their most exciting when those so-called inevitabilities get messy and start going a different direction. You're maintaining that Neville killing Bellatrix was some big Chekhov's Gun that never came into play whereas I don't think so. I think it's an expectation based mostly in cliche and that the true necessary payoffs that people would have gotten from that moment (Neville finds emotional closure and emerges a hero, Bellatrix gets her comeuppance) were fulfilled in different ways. I don't think "Neville gets revenge" was anything that was planted as an essential dramatic element. John, Holko, Pieter Boelen and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Its literally the definition of Chekhov's Gun: the idea that all narrative elements should be essential, and therefore pay-off later in the story. To me, its a missed dramatic oportunity solely for the sake of so-called fidelty to the source material. Smaug The Iron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I vill heff to stun you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: Its literally the definition of Chekhov's Gun: the idea that all narrative elements should be essential, and therefore pay-off later in the story. To me, its a missed dramatic oportunity solely for the sake of so-called fidelty to the source material. Chekhov's Gun is not actually a narrative requirement; it is just an oft-used trope. Sometimes it works great; sometimes subverting it works even better. I imagine how incredibly predictable everything would be if Chekhov's Gun is always paid off! Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 To craft a surprising film, you don't need to eschew planting-and-payoff; all you need to do is be very subtle with your set-up. So much so, that the audience doesn't realise an element has been planted until it actually gets payed-off. Some of the best planting isn't even done through dialogue. What you're looking for is that "oh, right!" moment, rather than the "huh? what?" one. Think about all the planting that goes into the introduction of time travel in "The Prisoner of Azkaban." Its all fleeting moments and throwaway lines. It doesn't serve to ruin the surprise, but to deepen the moment in which its revealed. There's also the issue of the placement of the planting and the payoff: you typically want them across separate acts, because if an element is planted only just before it pays off, it usually feels too much like plot convenience. But if you start placing them very far from each other, you need to subtly remind the audience of the planted element. And surprises aren't necessarily the be-all, by-all goal of a narrative, anyway. Look at Titanic: we know, from the framing device alone, that the ship sank, that Rose lived and we can very easily infer that Jack dies. Does that hurt the narrative? Not in the slightest. Surprises are cheap; suspense and drama are not. I think you're all trying to rationalize a supposed fidelty to the source material, where in fact the best way to honor the source material is to make the best movie possible, while featuring the same skeletal narrative as the source material. Anything other than the bare bones of the story is fair game to change, reinterperate, abberivate, embelish, shift, excise or create from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 You do make fair points, @Chen G., but what you say is not a "golden rule that shall always be followed". For me, "Bellatrix killed Neville's parents" in no way makes it a given requirement that "Neville must therefore be the one to kill Bellatrix in return". There are any other number of things that could happen instead; some bad, some good, some maybe even better than the "direct revenge" option. Who decides what is an actual "Chekhov's Gun", what is a deliberate "Red Herring" and what is just "stuff that happened"? Bilbo and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Smaug The Iron 515 Posted March 17, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2018 Just to be clear, Neville’s parents are not dead. Bellatrix, her husband, her brother in low and Barty Crouch Jr tortured Frank and Alice Longbottom for information. This made them mentally damage for life. They now live in St Mungo's Hosptial for Magical Maladies and Injuries. Bilbo, Pieter Boelen and Arpy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Whatever. That still makes him much more deserved, narrative-wise, of killing Bellatrix than Mrs. Wisley. After all, what's people issue with The Deathly Hallows part 2 if not the lack of a strong sense of resolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 515 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I have heard a lot of criticisms for DH 2 but the criticisms that Molly Weasley killed Bellatrix Lestrange I have only heard from you. Bilbo and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 That it's pure shit? That it throws out everything we liked about the book and its characters and replaces it with empty, stupid, illogical visual effects? That it fails to care about immensely important plot points that could have been fixed with 5 more minutes in the grading room? (Lily's eyes...) That once again it's graded so dark you can't make out the foreground from the background and all vaguely dark bits blend into one crushed black mess with all detail lost? Smaug The Iron and Pieter Boelen 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Smaug the iron said: the criticisms that Molly Weasley killed Bellatrix Lestrange I have only heard from you. Its one that's emblematic of the bigger issue: that the film fails to bring a strong sense of resolution to a lot of its characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 515 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Its one that's emblematic of the bigger issue: that the film fails to bring a strong sense of resolution to a lot of its characters. Sure we have characters like Seamus, Dean, Teddy, Kingsley, McGonagall, Cho and Percy who has no resolution. But Neville has resolution when he killed Nagini, and killing Nagini is more important then killing Bellatrix. Plus it shows that Neville had a part to play in Voldemort’s downfall as it was said in the prophecy. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I have more of a problem with the way Mrs Weasley kills Bellatrix in the film. The line she delivers comes across much better in the books. I can understand why she would be the one to kill Bellatrix as she has a history with death eaters (both her brothers were murdered by them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I'd have preferred an ending where they just accept their new Death Eater overlords. Seems more realistic and relatable. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 13 hours ago, Alex said: I have more of a problem with the way Mrs Weasley kills Bellatrix in the film. The line she delivers comes across much better in the books. I can understand why she would be the one to kill Bellatrix as she has a history with death eaters (both her brothers were murdered by them). It's not that this is an inherently undramatic setup. It's that the way this is executed, it's not even clear or very involving that Bellatrix almost killed Ginny in the first place, and there's no sense of internalization from the characters. There's no real bloodlust from Bellatrix, and I get a pretty shallow sense of how Ginny or Molly or any of the Weasleys feel about their lives and family being put in jeopardy here. The scene just rockets past every possible dramatic beat and does not seem to care if we empathize with the characters. It makes sense that Chen G would be nonplussed by having Mrs Weasley fight Bellatrix in the film because there's really nothing of interest happening here and Neville was in the same room for what could have been a great big confrontation. Theoretically a Neville vs Bellatrix fight that was about as sloppy as this would have made a better movie because it's a more obvious setup with a pre-existing conflict and so we'd bring some emotional subtext to compensate for the film not being very convincing. But that's not the same thing as suggesting the best possible version of Deathly Hallows: Part 2 would have gone with that scenario. I mean, I think it would have been meaningful for Neville to have some sort of reckoning with Bellatrix and I don't even necessarily disagree that it would have been the absolute most dramatic way for her to die. But there are other considerations and compromises when puzzling out a narrative, especially with this kind of ensemble. As I said, I think that Rowling successfully split the difference between the need for Neville to have significant heroism and the need for Bellatrix to meet her maker, and it allowed Mrs. Weasley to step in with something to do that would have some juice to it and dramatize her role as a mother, illustrating a major theme in the story. And it could have been more compellingly adapted. Plus this is not hugely relevant since it's all fantasy anyway, but I think it's probably more believable for Mrs. Weasley to be able to hold her own against Bellatrix than Neville. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 1 hour ago, mrbellamy said: It's not that this is an inherently undramatic setup. It's that the way this is executed, it's not even clear or very involving that Bellatrix almost killed Ginny in the first place, and there's no sense of internalization from the characters. There's no real bloodlust from Bellatrix, and I get a pretty shallow sense of how Ginny or Molly or any of the Weasleys feel about their lives and family being put in jeopardy here. The scene just rockets past every possible dramatic beat and does not seem to care if we empathize with the characters. Imagine how much cooler that could have been had been it been an actual scene and not an action beat. The scene in film doesn't create any suspense, so Molly saving the day has zero dramatic impact whatsoever. Holko and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Am I the only one who didn't dislike that scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Harry snapping the Elder Wand was disappointing. Deathly Hallows established the importance of wands and the connection between their owners. In the books Harry repairs his own wand with the Elder Wand (the only wand that could do so) and then agrees with Dumbeldore's portrait that its power should die with Dumbledore and to replace it in his tomb. Nope, the film is too long already, gotta snap it to wrap up the story right now. Holko and Pieter Boelen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2018/07/21/new-crimes-of-grindelwald-trailer-unveiled-at-san-diego-comic-con/ New trailer. I’m excited anyway. They even adapted some of Howard’s music for it too. Depp actually looks like he might pull off the whole Grindelwald thing too. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 A bad guy playing a bad guy. Seems fitting. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, John said: A bad guy playing a bad guy. Seems fitting. That’s what I was thinking. It’s very easy hate him. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I find myself weirdly annoyed that Yates just copied the Lupin boggart scene from Azkaban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 It’s a bit... yeah it’s a bit unnecessary although I guess it’s JK’s idea as she wrote the script. I dknt mind fan service and call backs but this seems a little too much on the nose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 So Fantastic Beasts, eh? Where do you find them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,287 Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, Bilbo said: It’s a bit... yeah it’s a bit unnecessary although I guess it’s JK’s idea as she wrote the script. I dknt mind fan service and call backs but this seems a little too much on the nose. Lol yeah, but it's even the exact same set-up and Cuaron's "floating" camera. Looks at least as good as the first, can't wait for the score. Wonder if Dumbledore will get a character theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Is Nicholas Flamel a Fantastic Beast? Looking forward to seeing Law as Dumbledore, it sounds like he's put on a bit of an Irish accent - a nod to Harris and Gambon. Can't stand all the crap surrounding Johnny Depp, people bemoaning he should be recast without seeing any substantial scenes with him in it. He'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 God the cinematography is so lifeless and washed out. Isn't Yates tired of draining out every inch of colour from this magical universe? Holko and John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, crumbs said: God the cinematography is so lifeless and washed out. Isn't Yates tired of draining out every inch of colour from this magical universe? When Yates was a child he saw a solar eclipse and was slightly blinded - the darkness is the only normal thing he knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 The film should just be called 50 Shades of Grey, because it's the only fucking colour he seems capable of using! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Trailers rarely have the same color palette as the finished film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Yeah, they’re normally brighter and more colourful. This looks exactly the same as the first Fantastic Beasts film, colour-wise. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Which was so incredibly dull both in looks, plot and characters that I couldn't make it more than halfway through despite my love for the books and world. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Disco Stu said: I find myself weirdly annoyed that Yates just copied the Lupin boggart scene from Azkaban There's probably a point to it in the story, perhaps even a good reason to make it look similar. But it's a bit odd to have it figure so prominently in the trailer. Still, this looks exciting. And the Boggart/Hogwarts stuff actually helps - a good portion of it looks so familiar and straight out of the original series. Which could be a bad/uninspired/fan service thing, but just the possibility that it might be as involving as the Potter stories is exciting. I've always said that the first film was not much more than okay-ish as a whole, at least on its own, but the characters have potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,481 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 "Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them". It's funny to think that for some people, they only have to check in their shorts for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said: There's probably a point to it in the story, perhaps even a good reason to make it look similar. But it's a bit odd to have it figure so prominently in the trailer. Still, this looks exciting. And the Boggart/Hogwarts stuff actually helps - a good portion of it looks so familiar and straight out of the original series. Which could be a bad/uninspired/fan service thing, but just the possibility that it might be as involving as the Potter stories is exciting. I've always said that the first film was not much more than okay-ish as a whole, at least on its own, but the characters have potential. I’d say it is more a “hey, look, Hogwarts is back! This is the same universe as Harry Potter!!” More than anything else. I’d say Hogwarts will actually be quite limited in the film. TSMefford and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Watched that trailer. The one thing that couldn't have been lifted out of Dr. Strange is a shot-by-shot, and almost line-by-line redo of a scene 70 years later. It's incredibly refreshing to have fallen out of the franchise and not get angry at how dull that looks, I just don't care and won't see it. Rowling created a magical world with incredibly wit, humour and Britishness, and Yates somehow drained out both the magic and the witty, humorous absurdity of the world. By removing all epository events and plotlines, basically all the deeper logic and inner workings of the world, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothless 963 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Well I liked the trailer except for the horrendous rendition of JNH theme. Less washed out colorwise even if I'm no fan of Yates' style. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUH 65 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 First snippets of score! Neat that they're promoting the film by sending online personalities to the scoring sesions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted August 29, 2018 Author Share Posted August 29, 2018 Cool! Looking forward to this film and score a lot. I just rewatched the first one and really enjoyed it. The score really stands up too I think. One of my favorites of recent years. Looking forward to seeing where they take the themes in the 2nd film. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 Not so much the film I must admit but this was always my most anticipated score of 2018 after Solo. I cannot wait to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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