Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them 5-film series

[Chen G. 3,949]

59 minutes ago, Alex said:

how uninspiring and average his directing is, even compared to Columbus.

 

Its not.

[Holko 9,516]

Yes it is.

[Chen G. 3,949]

My favourite Harry Potter movie - which would be Order of the Phoenix - is a Yates-helmed film, and he also helmed Half-Blood Prince which is a strong contender for second (or third, at worst) place. Sure, you could say that - like Philosopher's Stone - I like them mostly for reasons other than directing, but to say I like them in spite of their director would be to me a preposterous notion.

 

Obviously something about the way it was directed worked its charms on me.

[crumbs 14,306]

Cuaron was easily the standout director of the series. Him not returning for Deathly Hallows, and bringing Williams with him, is one of the great missed opportunities.

[Chen G. 3,949]

5 minutes ago, crypto said:

Cuaron was easily the standout director of the series.

 

People always say that, but the fact of the matter is his film is by no means the one I get the most out of.

[Holko 9,516]

Not his fault that your taste is wrong!

[Chen G. 3,949]

It would be wrong for me to judge these things except by the way I feel.

[crumbs 14,306]

Cuaron is the most talented director of the 4... frankly it's not even close.

 

Yates can continue making his insufferably dreary, monochromatic snoozefests. Cuaron's busy building a resume that solidified him as one of the most noteworthy filmmaking talents of this generation.

 

Clearly if Yates' output is acceptable by WB executives, this franchise is beneath Cuaron's talents.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

The Yates films are the best.  

 

I'd rank them as follows:

1. OOTP
2. DH, PT 2
3. HBP
4. DH, PT 1
5. POA*
6. SS
7. GOF
8. COS

Columbus deserves a great deal of credit for casting, establishing the visuals and setting, and fealty to the source material (which wasn't as in important with the later films, but crucial in establishing credibility for the films early on).

 

Newell dropped the ball on what is arguably the best book of the series.

 

*A fine film, but a little overrated. It's good, and many of the scenes are beautiful in how deftly they're handled, but it's not quite the cinematic masterpiece it's made out to be. Though I agree that objectively speaking Cuaron is the best director of the lot (though that doesn't mean he made the best Harry Potter film).

[Chen G. 3,949]

2 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The Yates films are the best.  

 

I'd rank them as follows:

1. OOTP

 

Bruder! Mein Bruder!

Siegmund! Ha!

[Holko 9,516]

Newell cranked everything up to 15, at least it was a fun bad. Yates turned everything down to 3, dull as hell, lifeless world, cast, costumes, effects, colours, cutting out the wrong parts of the books and making up stupid shit to fill it in while butchering the rest...

[Chen G. 3,949]

15 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The Yates films are the best.  

 

I think this is an important point to distill, too: they're not necessarily the best because of Yates, per se - they may or may not be the best because of, say, the inherent qualities of their storylines or because of their scripts, which Yates doesn't have hand in writing - but surely if they are the best, its not in spite of Yates.

[Holko 9,516]

Or they're not the best. The scripts suck too, make no mistake.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

None of Potter movies have ever had great scripts, as in well-considered adaptations.  We got one good movie out of it all because of the vision of its talented director to rise above the so-so script (POA obviously).

 

I see that Kloves has returned to co-write the new Beasts.

[Holko 9,516]

I dunno which directors had how much input but the wellness of consideration fluctuates a lot. For example in POA, the changes with the Firebolt subplot and Harry's reaction to hippogriff-riding all work to support the core theme of depression and tie to it, set up and pay off Harry's love of flying in-film. Something like the Burrow burning is only present to... establish that the baddies are bad, to add a bad and superficial action scene, and also to take all power and any kind of stakes away when the Burrow is fine and unaffected in the next film?

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

I think these films collectively actually make for a good study in adaptation.

 

The Columbus films showed a great deal of fidelity to the books, which IMO was important early on to establish credibility for the series, especially with the fans. But as a result, they can plod on a bit and show a lack of dramatic inertia at some points. They're an example both of the benefits and drawbacks in making more literal adaptions of source material.

 

Cuarón made a stylistic film full of great performances, which, while deviating significantly in some aspects, in general stayed true to the tone of the film. He made the characters more mature than they were in the book, and it mostly works. The characters in POA feel the most like real people of all the films. They act like real teenagers. Anyway, this movie, for better or worse, very much belongs to its director.  It's like Jurassic Park in that way, a film wholly different in tone from the book, and very much a creature of its director.

 

Newell just didn't understand the material, or the characters (especially Dumbledore), and it shows. It takes not quite as loyal approach to the source material as the Columbus films, but doesn't do anything creative with the deviations as Cuarón did. Ironically, he took the most compelling book narratively and made whole sections of it decidedly uninteresting. This is actually the book where the kids start to grow up, with more mature themes, but Cuarón beat Newell to the punch here, and did a much better job of it.  Harry, Ron, Hermione etc. actually feel less mature in GOF than POA.

 

I don't know, I just like the Yates movies. I like the more adult themes, and I think he strikes the right balance between being faithful to the books, thematically, and making the considerable cuts from the source material that's required for adaptation to work. He took OOTP, which is the longest book, and made it the shortest film, and it's better for it. The Yates films have a nice consistency, and even sort of form their own trilogy (counting DH as one film). I even like the muted colour grade.

 

That said, I can't say there's anything especially great about Yates as a director. He may be a one trick pony, but for the Harry Potter films, I think what he did worked. Again, Cuarón is no doubt the most talented of the lot.

[Holko 9,516]

4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

and I think he strikes the right balance between being faithful to the books, thematically, and making the considerable cuts from the source material that's required for adaptation to work

hahahahahaha

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 minute ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I even like the muted colour grade.

 

Depends on the movie for me: I really, really like The Half-Blood Prince, but not for its colour palette.

 

The shot composition is very pleasing, though: its possibly the film that has the best framing. And there are some wonderful choices like the odd closeups with wide-angles lenses and dutch angles when Jim Broadbent (a really marvellous performance) is telling his story about Voldemort.

[crumbs 14,306]

Columbus might have established the locations and production design, but it was Cuaron and Michael Seresin (his DP) who redefined the visual aesthetic for the series. Every film that followed used Azkaban as the visual template.

 

Though I had to laugh when Yates ripped off the 'camera gliding through glass' visual motif from Azkaban. That was a charming idea that made sense with the visual storytelling Cuaron/Seresin were doing in POA, tying in beautifully with the clocks/time-traveling aspects.

 

It's a concise distillation of how limited Yates' filmmaking ability is, not to mention his uninspired and limited vision. Yeah, he has an eye for pretty shots and compositional balance (any film student with two brain cells can compose "balanced" mise en scene), but it's meaningless if the visual storytelling is as lifeless as a funeral.

[Chen G. 3,949]

7 minutes ago, crypto said:

Yeah, he has an eye for pretty shots and compositional balance (any film student with two brain cells can compose "balanced" mise en scene

 

<Bass-baritone Yoda voice> So certain are you...

[crumbs 14,306]

5 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

So certain are you...

 

It's really not hard to position a group of characters in frame with visual balance, especially when you lock off the camera in a boring mid shot and instruct your actors to remain as motionless and expressionless as possible.

 

Talented directors do a lot more than compose balanced shots.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Over time, I've come to the conclusion that the ultimate test of any film (or any dramatic work, really) is what you come away from it with.

 

I come away from The Order of the Phoenix deeply moved in a way that I don't any other entry, certainly not Prisoner of Azkaban. The interesting thing is that this wasn't the case when I first saw it: the first time around, I'd have probably said Azkaban was the best. But rewatching it (and I've always been of the opinion that its best to watch a film twice to evaluate it) something about the end of Order of the Phoenix hit me like a truck.

 

Anything else - editing decisions I might disagree with in Order of the Phoenix, Cuaron's more inventive camerawork - is ultimately beside the point compared to the overall effect of the movie.

[Holko 9,516]

Yeah, OotP's ending is remade to be about as subtle as a truck.

[Chen G. 3,949]

It worked for me, and that's what matters.

[crumbs 14,306]

I couldn't even remember the ending of that film, I had to look it up. Then I realised why I'd forgotten it. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

You people are dead inside!

[Holko 9,516]

No, we just like things to be done well.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

No, we just like things to be done well.

I hope that doesn’t go for your steak!

[Holko 9,516]

1 hour ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I hope that doesn’t go for your steak!

Don't worry, our steak is a "done with this shit" level of done!

[Holko 9,516]

OK just to drag it up one more time: I also like how Yates handled a lot of OotP with those montages, but the Room of Requirements particularly doesn't sit right with me because of the staging and set design. In the book, it's a welcoming room with bookcases, pillows, helping tools, Harry is a good teacher who makes the students practice in pairs and goes around to help where necessary, even stopping Fred&George from picking on the most unlikeable one. But in the movie, it's an empty hall of metal and mirrors to direct the gaze onto the students, who line up to directly watch the two practicing ones, or stand in a line to take turns attacking the dummy, putting a lot of pressure on the ones who are currently up. Fits perfectly into Yates' trend of making sure absolutely nothing happens in the frame outside of the one thing he wants to focus on, anyone else should just stand there and do nothing to make for an OK shot with zero life, but also it completely ruins that comfortable home-away-from-Hogwarts feeling the room and these practices had in the book, I wouldn't want to attend the meetings as shown in that montage. But it saved on set design budget and blocking time so who gives a toss.

21 hours ago, Alex said:

This is an interesting video I watched on David Yates. It’s interesting to see how uninspiring and average his directing is, even compared to Columbus.
 

 

Very much put off by how the guy over-and misuses "great" and "genius" but the comparisons are done well.

[Nick1Ø66 4,710]

On 28/1/2022 at 4:57 AM, Holko said:

That's why Yates baffles me. Sure he might be easy to work with but he completely neutered and watered down the brand.

 

 

On 28/1/2022 at 11:52 AM, Chen G. said:

My favourite Harry Potter movie - which would be Order of the Phoenix - is a Yates-helmed film

 

23 hours ago, Holko said:

Not his fault that your taste is wrong!

 

23 hours ago, Chen G. said:

It would be wrong for me to judge these things except by the way I feel.

 

22 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

The Yates films are the best.  

 

22 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Bruder! Mein Bruder!

Siegmund! Ha!

 

22 hours ago, Holko said:

Or they're not the best. The scripts suck too, make no mistake.

 

21 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

<Bass-baritone Yoda voice> So certain are you...

 

21 hours ago, Holko said:

Yeah, OotP's ending is remade to be about as subtle as a truck.

 

21 hours ago, Chen G. said:

It worked for me, and that's what matters.

 

21 hours ago, Chen G. said:

You people are dead inside!

 

20 hours ago, Holko said:

No, we just like things to be done well.

 

De gustibus non est disputandum my friends.

 

[mstrox 6,651]

Especially when you’re both a bit off!

 

1). PoA

2) HBP

3) DH1

4) GOF

5) OOTP

6) DH2

7) FB1

8) FB2

9) COS

10) SS/PS

[Chen G. 3,949]

I haven't watched those in a while, so I probably couldn't make a rigorous rating. I just remember Order of the Phoenix and Prisoner of Azkaban being my favourites, alongside Half-Blood Prince. I also liked Deathly Hallows Part One, Goblet of Fire and Philosopher's Stone, and didn't like Chamber of Secrets and Deathly Hallows: Part Two.

[Holko 9,516]

I remember watching HBP once and deciding I never want to suffer through it again.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Really interesting video, but that background music is so annoying.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

6 minutes ago, Holko said:

I remember watching HBP once and deciding I never want to suffer through it again.

Same here but last year I've watched them all once and had a lot of fun watching it, it's like its own parody and it's pretty fun

As for a ranking:

1. Prisoner of Azkaban (really good)
2. Sorcerer's Stone (good)
3. Chamber of Secrets (good)
4. Half Blood Prince (nice)
5. Order of the Phoenix (pretty bad)
6. Fantastic Beasts 1 (pretty bad)
7. Deathly Hallows part. II (bad)
8. Goblet of Fire (bad)
9. Deathly Hallows part. I (awful)
10. Crimes of Grindelwald (unbearable)

[Chen G. 3,949]

I think its pretty difficult to lump Fantastic Beasts together in the same list as the Harry Potter films proper for the sake of rating.

 

With the possible exception of Deathly Hallows: Part One, they're in such a different idiom to Harry Potter: more globetrotting, almost Bond-wannabie films, as opposed to the Bildungsromane and mystery that drove Harry Potter.

 

Its like comparing apples to kumquats.

[Alex 2,835]

Regardless of our difference in opinions on the origins films, surely we can all agree that Crimes of Grindelwald was absolutely dreadful.

 

I don’t have much hope for this film either:

[Arpy 4,145]

I think Crimes of Grindelwald certainly tickled my fascination with the darker elements of the Potter series and Dumbledore's involvement, but it came at a cost of completely and irrevocably derailing Newt Scamander's story which FB1 was kind of setting up. As I've complained many times before in this thread, I think the tone and direction of these films is completely 'off' for what could've been a fun family adventure series. 

 

Secrets of Dumbeldore will have to set things straight for this series, and any hope for magical beast exploration is well and truly out of the window now, and JK and Co. will compensate for this by feeding us HP nostalgia instead of new adventures.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

'Fantastic Beasts' 4 has not begun being written, confirms producer David Heyman - SnitchSeeker.com

What does he mean, 'we haven't started writing yet?' Is he a writer too now? Is this franchise finally hanging in the balance then?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

As the producer in charge of all things Potter he obviously manages the writing process too.

[crumbs 14,306]

I suspect WB are waiting to see how this film performs before sinking any more money into this series.

 

IMO the whole franchise needs to hit the reset button. 

[Edmilson 7,429]

Yeah, they're probably going to wait to see how Secrets of Dumbledore will perform at the box office before WB greenlits any other movie. 

 

If the movie bombs, then I hope the following movies will be at least straight to streaming. JNH needs to continue scoring them!

[TheUlyssesian 2,477]

 

On the news though, that is not good news for sure. 

 

I think it shows they are in a holding pattern. The story that they started has to end with a Dumbledore Grindlewald duel.

 

So they need to see if the 3rd does well. If it does, then they might greenlight the final 2 chapters to film back-to-back and stick to their 5 film intentions.

 

If the 3rd does not do well, they might either just do a 4th film and put the duel in there or finish it off with an HBO Max special or miniseries or a streaming movie.

 

5 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

'Fantastic Beasts' 4 has not begun being written, confirms producer David Heyman - SnitchSeeker.com

What does he mean, 'we haven't started writing yet?' Is he a writer too now? Is this franchise finally hanging in the balance then?

 

He's speaking on behalf of the entire production. So its a figurative "we", not a literal "we".

 

Same way the when a producer says - we are going to shoot it next year. Doesn't mean he's literally going to shoot the movie through the camera, he just speaks speaks for the film and represents the production as a whole. 

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On 27/01/2022 at 3:27 PM, GerateWohl said:

The worst of the eight HP movies is The Goblet of Fire. 

But we had that conversation multiple times, I think.

And I admit, The Crimes of Grindelwald is worse.

Best of the books worst of the films.

[bollemanneke 3,342]

GOF is a great movie.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

If the 3rd does not do well, they might either just do a 4th film and put the duel in there or finish it off with an HBO Max special or miniseries or a streaming movie.

 

This was basically the plan with the last Divergent movie and they just never got around to making it. Hysterical. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

26 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

GOF is a great movie.

 

I'm gonna sit this round out, but have fun everybody!

[bollemanneke 3,342]

Yeah, I shouldn't have responded.

[Edmilson 7,429]

14 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

This was basically the plan with the last Divergent movie and they just never got around to making it. Hysterical. 

Yeah, but unlike Divergent, FB does have a massive corporation behind with a brand new streaming service starving for new content. I really think that, if FB3 flops, the 4th and 5th will go straight to HBOMax. Unless, of course, the movie is so widely hated that the whole franchise will be demoralized.