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Bilbo

Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them 5-film series

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JK retconned it on her website, saying, like the Imperius curse, enough willpower or magical power can make someone resist it. And in that situation, Fudge just wanted to save face and "execute" him as fast as possible. A known mass murderer on the loose for months has impacted his image significantly, imagine if he said "well he's innocent now, 3 children, an old fart and a murderous madman said the real culprit lived as a rat for 12 years".

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5 hours ago, kaseykockroach said:

Dobby x Snape.

 

"Master has taken virginity. Dobby is free!"

 

It actually went like Snape fucks Dobby wearing a condom and then throws his cum filled used condom at him.

 

"Master has presented Dobby with clothes. Dobby is free!"

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6 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

and kills the snake right then and there

 

Ron and/or Hermione should have killed the snake, and Neville should have killed Bellatrix. A character doesn't have to pay-off in just one way. They should pay-off and any and every way that was planted.

 

I think the rest is just providing excuses for the writers to stick to the source material, even when it clearly goes against the most basic (and important) elements of narrative structure.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Its literally the definition of Chekhov's Gun: the idea that all narrative elements should be essential, and therefore pay-off later in the story. To me, its a missed dramatic oportunity solely for the sake of so-called fidelty to the source material.

Chekhov's Gun is not actually a narrative requirement; it is just an oft-used trope.

Sometimes it works great; sometimes subverting it works even better.

I imagine how incredibly predictable everything would be if Chekhov's Gun is always paid off! 

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To craft a surprising film, you don't need to eschew planting-and-payoff; all you need to do is be very subtle with your set-up. So much so, that the audience doesn't realise an element has been planted until it actually gets payed-off. Some of the best planting isn't even done through dialogue. What you're looking for is that "oh, right!" moment, rather than the "huh? what?" one. Think about all the planting that goes into the introduction of time travel in "The Prisoner of Azkaban." Its all fleeting moments and throwaway lines. It doesn't serve to ruin the surprise, but to deepen the moment in which its revealed.

 

There's also the issue of the placement of the planting and the payoff: you typically want them across separate acts, because if an element is planted only just before it pays off, it usually feels too much like plot convenience. But if you start placing them very far from each other, you need to subtly remind the audience of the planted element.

 

And surprises aren't necessarily the be-all, by-all goal of a narrative, anyway. Look at Titanic: we know, from the framing device alone, that the ship sank, that Rose lived and we can very easily infer that Jack dies. Does that hurt the narrative? Not in the slightest. Surprises are cheap; suspense and drama are not.

 

I think you're all trying to rationalize a supposed fidelty to the source material, where in fact the best way to honor the source material is to make the best movie possible, while featuring the same skeletal narrative as the source material. Anything other than the bare bones of the story is fair game to change, reinterperate, abberivate, embelish, shift, excise or create from scratch.

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You do make fair points, @Chen G., but what you say is not a "golden rule that shall always be followed".

For me, "Bellatrix killed Neville's parents" in no way makes it a given requirement that "Neville must therefore be the one to kill Bellatrix in return".

There are any other number of things that could happen instead; some bad, some good, some maybe even better than the "direct revenge" option.

 

Who decides what is an actual "Chekhov's Gun", what is a deliberate "Red Herring" and what is just "stuff that happened"?

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Whatever. That still makes him much more deserved, narrative-wise, of killing Bellatrix than Mrs. Wisley.

 

After all, what's people issue with The Deathly Hallows part 2 if not the lack of a strong sense of resolution?

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That it's pure shit?

That it throws out everything we liked about the book and its characters and replaces it with empty, stupid, illogical visual effects?

That it fails to care about immensely important plot points that could have been fixed with 5 more minutes in the grading room? (Lily's eyes...)

That once again it's graded so dark you can't make out the foreground from the background and all vaguely dark bits blend into one crushed black mess with all detail lost?

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1 minute ago, Smaug the iron said:

the criticisms that Molly Weasley killed Bellatrix Lestrange I have only heard from you. 

 

Its one that's emblematic of the bigger issue: that the film fails to bring a strong sense of resolution to a lot of its characters.

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2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Its one that's emblematic of the bigger issue: that the film fails to bring a strong sense of resolution to a lot of its characters.

 

Sure we have characters like Seamus, Dean, Teddy, Kingsley, McGonagall, Cho and Percy who has no resolution. But Neville has resolution when he killed Nagini, and killing Nagini is more important then killing Bellatrix. Plus it shows that Neville had a part to play in Voldemort’s downfall as it was said in the prophecy. 

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I have more of a problem with the way Mrs Weasley kills Bellatrix in the film. The line she delivers comes across much better in the books. I can understand why she would be the one to kill Bellatrix as she has a history with death eaters (both her brothers were murdered by them).

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13 hours ago, Alex said:

I have more of a problem with the way Mrs Weasley kills Bellatrix in the film. The line she delivers comes across much better in the books. I can understand why she would be the one to kill Bellatrix as she has a history with death eaters (both her brothers were murdered by them).

 

 

It's not that this is an inherently undramatic setup. It's that the way this is executed, it's not even clear or very involving that Bellatrix almost killed Ginny in the first place, and there's no sense of internalization from the characters. There's no real bloodlust from Bellatrix, and I get a pretty shallow sense of how Ginny or Molly or any of the Weasleys feel about their lives and family being put in jeopardy here. The scene just rockets past every possible dramatic beat and does not seem to care if we empathize with the characters.

 

It makes sense that Chen G would be nonplussed by having Mrs Weasley fight Bellatrix in the film because there's really nothing of interest happening here and Neville was in the same room for what could have been a great big confrontation. Theoretically a Neville vs Bellatrix fight that was about as sloppy as this would have made a better movie because it's a more obvious setup with a pre-existing conflict and so we'd bring some emotional subtext to compensate for the film not being very convincing.

 

But that's not the same thing as suggesting the best possible version of Deathly Hallows: Part 2 would have gone with that scenario. I mean, I think it would have been meaningful for Neville to have some sort of reckoning with Bellatrix and I don't even necessarily disagree that it would have been the absolute most dramatic way for her to die. But there are other considerations and compromises when puzzling out a narrative, especially with this kind of ensemble. As I said, I think that Rowling successfully split the difference between the need for Neville to have significant heroism and the need for Bellatrix to meet her maker, and it allowed Mrs. Weasley to step in with something to do that would have some juice to it and dramatize her role as a mother, illustrating a major theme in the story. And it could have been more compellingly adapted.

 

Plus this is not hugely relevant since it's all fantasy anyway, but I think it's probably more believable for Mrs. Weasley to be able to hold her own against Bellatrix than Neville.

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1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

 

It's not that this is an inherently undramatic setup. It's that the way this is executed, it's not even clear or very involving that Bellatrix almost killed Ginny in the first place, and there's no sense of internalization from the characters. There's no real bloodlust from Bellatrix, and I get a pretty shallow sense of how Ginny or Molly or any of the Weasleys feel about their lives and family being put in jeopardy here. The scene just rockets past every possible dramatic beat and does not seem to care if we empathize with the characters.

 

Imagine how much cooler that could have been had been it been an actual scene and not an action beat.  The scene in film doesn't create any suspense, so Molly saving the day has zero dramatic impact whatsoever.  

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Harry snapping the Elder Wand was disappointing. Deathly Hallows established the importance of wands and the connection between their owners. In the books Harry repairs his own wand with the Elder Wand (the only wand that could do so) and then agrees with Dumbeldore's portrait that its power should die with Dumbledore and to replace it in his tomb.

 

Nope, the film is too long already, gotta snap it to wrap up the story right now.

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http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2018/07/21/new-crimes-of-grindelwald-trailer-unveiled-at-san-diego-comic-con/

 

 New trailer. I’m excited anyway. They even adapted some of Howard’s music for it too. 

 

Depp actually looks like he might pull off the whole Grindelwald thing too. 

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It’s a bit... yeah it’s a bit unnecessary although I guess it’s JK’s idea as she wrote the script. 

 

I dknt mind fan service and call backs but this seems a little too much on the nose. 

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34 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

It’s a bit... yeah it’s a bit unnecessary although I guess it’s JK’s idea as she wrote the script. 

 

I dknt mind fan service and call backs but this seems a little too much on the nose. 

 

Lol yeah, but it's even the exact same set-up and Cuaron's "floating" camera.


Looks at least as good as the first, can't wait for the score. Wonder if Dumbledore will get a character theme.

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Is Nicholas Flamel a Fantastic Beast? 

 

Looking forward to seeing Law as Dumbledore, it sounds like he's put on a bit of an Irish accent - a nod to Harris and Gambon. 

 

Can't stand all the crap surrounding Johnny Depp, people bemoaning he should be recast without seeing any substantial scenes with him in it. He'll be fine.

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20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

God the cinematography is so lifeless and washed out. Isn't Yates tired of draining out every inch of colour from this magical universe?

When Yates was a child he saw a solar eclipse and was slightly blinded - the darkness is the only normal thing he knows.

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13 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

I find myself weirdly annoyed that Yates just copied the Lupin boggart scene from Azkaban

 

There's probably a point to it in the story, perhaps even a good reason to make it look similar. But it's a bit odd to have it figure so prominently in the trailer.

 

Still, this looks exciting. And the Boggart/Hogwarts stuff actually helps - a good portion of it looks so familiar and straight out of the original series. Which could be a bad/uninspired/fan service thing, but just the possibility that it might be as involving as the Potter stories is exciting. I've always said that the first film was not much more than okay-ish as a whole, at least on its own, but the characters have potential.

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1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

There's probably a point to it in the story, perhaps even a good reason to make it look similar. But it's a bit odd to have it figure so prominently in the trailer.

 

Still, this looks exciting. And the Boggart/Hogwarts stuff actually helps - a good portion of it looks so familiar and straight out of the original series. Which could be a bad/uninspired/fan service thing, but just the possibility that it might be as involving as the Potter stories is exciting. I've always said that the first film was not much more than okay-ish as a whole, at least on its own, but the characters have potential.

 

I’d say it is more a “hey, look, Hogwarts is back! This is the same universe as Harry Potter!!” More than anything else. I’d say Hogwarts will actually be quite limited in the film. 

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Watched that trailer. The one thing that couldn't have been lifted out of Dr. Strange is a shot-by-shot, and almost line-by-line redo of a scene 70 years later. It's incredibly refreshing to have fallen out of the franchise and not get angry at how dull that looks, I just don't care and won't see it.

 

Rowling created a magical world with incredibly wit, humour and Britishness, and Yates somehow drained out both the magic and the witty, humorous absurdity of the world. By removing all epository events and plotlines, basically all the deeper logic and inner workings of the world, too.

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Cool!

 

Looking forward to this film and score a lot. 

 

I just rewatched the first one and really enjoyed it. The score really stands up too I think. One of my favorites of recent years. Looking forward to seeing where they take the themes in the 2nd film. 

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