Datameister's Cue Analysis Thread

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Damn, I was looking forward to The Encased Mosquito!

Also, although it's a very short cue and still unreleased - You Bred Raptors is worth an analysis. I still can't totally get my round it, and will probably need some help from Ludwig.

[Datameister 2,037]

Not sure if that was sarcasm or not about "The Encased Mosquito." I'm definitely planning on doing "You Bred Raptors", though, since I don't know that cue as well as I do "The Encased Mosquito."

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

One of the creepiest cues Williams has ever written IMO. Reminds me a lot of Leonard Rosenman.

[Ludwig 1,120]

Also, although it's a very short cue and still unreleased - You Bred Raptors is worth an analysis. I still can't totally get my round it, and will probably need some help from Ludwig.

Any time. I'm eager to see what Datameister comes up with in his analysis.

[Datameister 2,037]

One of the creepiest cues Williams has ever written IMO. Reminds me a lot of Leonard Rosenman.

It is genuinely eerie. And specifically, it's eerie in a foreboding sort of way, which makes it work really well in the context of the film. I like.

[Datameister 2,037]

All right, it took a while, but here's "To the Island"!

http://www.filedropper.com/totheislandanalysis

I might take a break from JP to do "In the Jungle"...tedfud mentioned it after I'd already been thinking about it on my own, so that might come next.

[Ludwig 1,120]

All right, it took a while, but here's "To the Island"!

Impressive. Thank you for such a lengthy and detailed analysis. I'd like to build on some of your points on the Island Theme. You rightly point out that the theme...

comprises four two-measure phrases; the first and third phrases are identical, while the second and fourth differ only in the way they end.

Eight-bar themes in classical music have certain names depending on how this kind of internal structure breaks down. The type of structure here might be called a "period", which has two phrases, antecedent and consequent. The main unusual thing here is that the theme does not end with a cadence on the tonic to close it off but rather on a dominant (and not even in the home key at that) to keep it open. Periods are extremely common not just in classical music, but in many of Williams' themes, so it's a good one to tuck away. The main thing is that you'll have two four-bar phrases (themselves comprised of two two-bar groups) that start the same way. Still, there's usually something quite different about Williams' period themes, as there is here.

Another good point you mention is that, after the opening two chords of the theme, Williams...

does something interesting: he moves into the relative minor scale (G natural minor in this case).

Of course you're right, what with the use of the dominant of G to confirm that key area. I wonder if we might open up the discussion as to whether there is only one key at this point or perhaps more than one acting simultaneously. In an earlier thread on this theme, Prometheus said of this passage:

Maybe this theme has three tonal centres (or substitute tonics) - Bb, Gm and D, with the harmony flying past each of them, but never crashing - like the InGen helicopter navigating through the mountain peaks of Isla Nublar.

I would add that we might think of multiple keys in this passage as being unequal in prominence. Since there are a good two and a half bars that could be heard in G minor, as you observe, we might hear this key at a "foreground" level. And yet, we can't entirely say that Bb major has been left behind because it is possible to hear these G minor bars as being an emphasized region of Bb major. In other words, we could analyze it as:

vi - iii6 - IV - vi - iii6 - V/vi - vi - IV

So one might say that Bb major is acting on a "middleground" level - it's still there, but not as prominent as hearing G minor as the tonic.

Then it turns suddenly to a half cadence in D minor, the third key to be suggested in the passage. At this point, one could hear the cadence chord in three different keys:

V in D minor - the "foreground" key since a cadence is a strong way of establishing a key

V/V in G minor - now the "middleground" key since it has been the more prominent leading up to this point

V/iii in Bb major - this key has now faded to a "background" level, but can still be heard because all the chords in the passage are closely related to that key

Another general point you make is on the modes used in the B section of the theme. You mention that, at its start...

We now seem to be in G Dorian, though, not G minor.

I wonder if you might entertain the possibility of hearing a shift in tonal center here as being more prominent than a single mode. In other words, G minor is clearly the most prominent (foregrounded) key ending the theme's opening period since its dominant is the cadence chord. With the first two bars of the B section, however, we hear a strong ii-V-I in F major, so we might hear that key as being the foregrounded one here, and perhaps G minor as more of a middleground key once we hear the V chord. The Dorian interpretation would need an E natural, which seems to be implied by the sus chord (V), but is never actually sounded.

One last point I'll mention is the way you succinctly sum up the harmonies at each point primarily with jazz notation. I think that's the way to go with much of Williams' tonal writing. Of course, jazz chords are often very functional as well, so you also use Roman numerals at times too, which I like. Though some chords can be given different symbols, some allow harmonic function to be gleaned more easily than others. So for example, the ii-V-I progression I mention above you write as...

Gm - Gm7 - Fsus2/4 - Fadd9

The first two chords correspond with ii of F major, Fsus2/4 with V, and Fadd9 with I. It would be nice to show the ii-V-I through the roots of each chord, so to replace the Fsus2/4 chord with a chord on C, which would be:

C7sus4

Then the last chord has the F we need to show G-C-F as ii-V-I. But actually I didn't find a G in the last chord, so I would revise it to simply F, so the progression becomes:

Gm - Gm7 - C7sus4 - F

Well done once again on your thorough analysis of this monumental cue.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

One small thing, I'd write M6/9/#11 instead of M13. After much browsing, I've discovered the former is an established chord in jazz guitar circles, and it better describes this Lydian-type chord.

See:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/jazz_guitar_endings.html

http://www.jacmuse.com/improv/harmonicapps/modern.htm

[tedfud 38]

multiple tonics !

i'm going to have to sit down...

t

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

John Williams is tri-tonal. He'll try anything tonal.

[Datameister 2,037]

John Williams is tri-tonal. He'll try anything tonal.

Thanks for the feedback, y'all! Excellent points all around. I'll look forward to mulling over them and incorporating them into future analyses. (Ludwig, I know what you mean about Roman numerals feeling more useful at times...I'm going to try to use them a little more liberally, though I find myself using jazz-type chord much of the time.)

[tedfud 38]

this business of multiple tonics. Are they spread across various staves ?......( as that I've seen before ) Stravinsky does this a lot....or are you talking about within one musical fragment there are multiple keys at work ? ...basically multiple key changes but so brief as to be not established ?

Thanks

T

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The later.

[tedfud 38]

I see...so this is just a form of "borrowed harmony" just from multiple sources ?

T

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Exactly.

[tedfud 38]

interesting....doesn't this make analysis almost impossible ? if your not hearing anything to obviously establish a key from the borrowed chords ( neighbouring or parallel keys would be obvious sources ) then couldn't you almost pick any key as the chords source ?

please forgive me if i seem to being pedantic ....(my harmony skills at this level are rather hazy. there're are so many tonal jedi's on this forum I hesitate to ask these questions but I'm trying to learn ).....

Is it Harmonic Function you are looking for ? and the clearest way of explaining it is using multiple tonalities ?

many thanks

t

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Well, you can still analysis harmonic function this way. You just have to take a multi-dimensional view of it.

Apologies if I'm being annoyingly brief. I'm sure Ludwig will go to town on this later.

[tedfud 38]

fair enough

t

[Datameister 2,037]

interesting....doesn't this make analysis almost impossible ? if your not hearing anything to obviously establish a key from the borrowed chords ( neighbouring or parallel keys would be obvious sources ) then couldn't you almost pick any key as the chords source ?

Well, in the case of the island theme, the two keys are Bb and its relative minor, G minor. So there's no actual change in the pitches present, and you can indeed look at the entire theme as staying in the key of Bb (with some occasional accidentals). But I think it makes a lot of sense to view it as essentially switching back and forth between the two keys, especially when you look at how many times the theme "resolves" (sort of) to a Gm chord. For me, it's really the Dm and especially DM chords that give it away - notice how the DM chord resolves in a V-i fashion back to Gm. Functionally, DM has no place in the key of Bb, but it makes perfect sense as the V of G harmonic minor.

The thing that really sold me on this interpretation was playing the theme on the piano without the first bar. It sounds awkward melodically, but you really get the sense that G has temporarily become the tonic.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

And the AM is the V/V?

[Datameister 2,037]

Yeah, that's how I would interpret it. Which - come to think of it - explains why there's a part of my brain that always felt like the second half of the theme should start in D, not return to Bb.

BTW, tedfud, you'll be happy to hear that I've indeed started working on "In the Jungle" for my next analysis!

[tedfud 38]

Oh I am...can't wait I really enjoyed "to the island" it's on my I pad and i'm going through it .

When you have basically the parallel minor it is the same notes, so it does make sense. Im intrigued though, how this works with three unrelated keys....

T

[Ludwig 1,120]

Functionally, DM has no place in the key of Bb, but it makes perfect sense as the V of G harmonic minor.

Well of course. But from this point of view, it sounds like you can't have a tonicization of a diatonic chord without losing the sense of the original key, or in other words that every time we have a chromatic chord, we must have modulated. But surely, it's more nuanced than this. Consider the notation V/vi for this DM chord. What we're really saying with that symbol is that we haven't lost the sense of Bb major, but the G minor comes to the fore for the moment. Why couldn't it be V/vi in this regard? That way, we retain both the "here and now" sense of G minor as well as the "in the background" sense of Bb major.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

When you have basically the parallel minor it is the same notes, so it does make sense. Im intrigued though, how this works with three unrelated keys....

Two keys (Bb/Gm), but they're very much related. What we're talking about here is the vi being used as a tonic substitute. It already shares two common tones (Bb and D) - the difference between F and G is more in colour than anything.

[Ludwig 1,120]

interesting....doesn't this make analysis almost impossible ? if your not hearing anything to obviously establish a key from the borrowed chords ( neighbouring or parallel keys would be obvious sources ) then couldn't you almost pick any key as the chords source ?

Is it Harmonic Function you are looking for ? and the clearest way of explaining it is using multiple tonalities ?

I think a visual would help explain this better:

The reduction and analysis in Bb are the work of Prometheus from the earlier thread. I've added the two lines beneath in G minor and D minor. When I discuss the idea of three tonics in the passage, those tonics are acting at varying strengths. The difference is, as you already surmised, in harmonic function. With the opening two chords, Bb is easily heard as the tonic with a sturdy root-position chord and bass pedal on Bb into the Lydian II chord. Notice, however, that in the second and third bars, that there are several VI and III chords if we continue analyzing in Bb - not particularly strong harmonic functions. In G minor, however, we get a lot of i and V - very clear harmonic functions. Even so, the fact that the G minor triad is still VI in Bb is not lost on the ear. Evidence for this is the very end of the Island Theme, where the second bar proceeds directly into V-I of Bb (just before the jeep music), making the progression more clearly VI-(passing III)-IV-V-I in Bb. In the above passage, however, the music veers further away from Bb in bar 3 with an even stronger turn towards G minor with its own dominant, the III# chord, or V/vi. But again, Bb is not completely obliterated here, as the progression still makes sense in that key. It's just that the harmonic functions in G minor here are stronger than those in Bb, so we hear the G minor more prominently, or as I have called it, in the foreground.

Now have a look at the last bar. In Bb, the progression goes IV-VII#7, or IV-V/iii, which, although possible, is certainly no strong harmonic function in Bb because the last chord is a dominant from another key (though it could perhaps be heard as an approach chord in that key, as Prometheus has pointed out before). In G minor, it's a little better, but VI-V/V again is hardly a routine progression. In D minor, however, going bII-V is very easy to hear, so that key enters into the foreground with the final chord, when D minor is confirmed, pushing G minor into a lower (middleground) level of perception and the Bb key into an even lower (background) level.

So to summarize, from a compositional point of view, the triple tonic idea is the result of using harmonies that are analyzable in multiple keys at once but that have varying strengths in the function of those harmonies and the progressions they form.

[tedfud 38]

Oh thank you for this. Yup makes a lot of sense. Bars two and three clearly sound in gminor and the last bar is that a neoplitan ? In D...

Reminds me of the Bach Chorales . They seem to change key all the time.

do you think this analysis mirrors his thinking when writing the harmony ?

T

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I think most of Williams thinking hear is unconscious, he's playing and hearing what sounds natural, 'inevitable' (to use his words) and dramatically appropriate for the film. That said, I think his love for baroque chamber music definitely shines through in moments like these.

Good call on the Neapolitan. I think that's partly why that Eb in bar 4 sounds so satisfying, along with the octave drop in the melody line.

[Ludwig 1,120]

Oh thank you for this. Yup makes a lot of sense. Bars two and three clearly sound in gminor and the last bar is that a neoplitan ? In D...

Reminds me of the Bach Chorales . They seem to change key all the time.

do you think this analysis mirrors his thinking when writing the harmony ?

T

Yes, Neapolitan it is.

Only John Williams knows what John Williams thinks when he's composing. In this theme, there is a strong sense of flow even as the foregrounded tonal centre shifts around. That probably has to do with using a pivot chord as the new tonality emerges rather than suddenly shifting as, say, Korngold often does.

[Datameister 2,037]

I think most of Williams thinking hear is unconscious, he's playing and hearing what sounds natural, 'inevitable' (to use his words) and dramatically appropriate for the film.

I'm inclined to agree. Obviously, we can't know for sure, but I'm guessing he's indeed just letting the music flow through him, not sitting down and coming up with it in a particularly analytical way. (Although I'm sure he could perform a superb analysis on it after the fact, if he were so inclined.)

[tedfud 38]

BTW, tedfud, you'll be happy to hear that I've indeed started working on "In the Jungle" for my next analysis!

How's it going ?

t

[Datameister 2,037]

It's slow going, but it's coming along nicely! I'm on page 12 of 19 right now. Really a fascinating cue...I think it's pretty likely I'm going to continue afterward into "The Cave."

[tedfud 38]

ace..really enjoying "to the island" going through it with the score is very helpful.

T

[Datameister 2,037]

I'm glad to hear it! It's hard for me to judge how useful these would be for me...I'm mainly benefiting from the process, not so much the end result.

[Datameister 2,037]

Here's "In the Jungle" for your studying enjoyment!

http://www.filedropper.com/inthejungleanalysis

Very interesting cue. The parts I expected to be tough tended to be fairly easy, and the parts I thought were self-explanatory ended up taking some real digging.

Now I gotta decide whether I'm going to go back to JP or get "The Cave" done first...

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Excellent so far, as always. This board has against all odds rejuvenated my passion for analysis.

[Datameister 2,037]

Thanks - and I know exactly the feeling!

[tedfud 38]

oh this is great thank you...lots to get through...This really has a Jerry Goldsmith feel to it for me. It's probably the percussion. It's got that "planet of the apes" and "satan Bug" vibe.

t

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Just a small correction here on here on bars 3-5.

Perhaps the most harmonically strange part of this passage is the descent in the marimba and
harp. The former plays chromatically descending pairs of notes separated by a fourth, and the latter seems to almost trace out a Cadd9 chord (perhaps alternatively interpreted as a D7 sus2/4 chord, considering the tonic).

I can see the quartal descent in the marimba, but not the Cadd9 chord in the harp. The harp plays a figure outlining Fmadd9, and later - Fmadd9#5.

[Datameister 2,037]

Maybe I'm misreading that figure...to me, it looks like C-G-Fb-D-G-C. But I was never too confident in that. What are you seeing?

EDIT: By the way, I've indeed decided to move forward with "The Cave." Such a fascinating cue.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Ah yes, you're right. My bad. I misread it as C-G-Ab-F-G-C - which makes MUCH more sense harmonically with the D Locrian figures in the cellos and pedal point in the basses (as does the quartal harp figure - if you ignore the A-E). I wouldn't be surprised if Herb actually misread the accidentals in John's sketches here (he did need require glasses, remember), and this was later corrected on the podium.

If have an astigmatism in my right eye, and sometimes I get double vision and see an extra ledger line when there isn't one.

BTW, I'd love to see Ludwig have a look at these cues - and try to analyse the wandering, non-functional progressions here.

[Datameister 2,037]

Well, it's easy enough to see the wrong number of ledger lines in these documents, even with 20/20 vision. "The Cave" is even worse...it slows me down a bit, but I'm listening closely to each passage to verify that I'm reading the music correctly. I've gotten through the first five measures, though.

[ComposerEthan 8]

I can't seem to download it ! The link keeps taking me to the filedropper main page!

[Datameister 2,037]

Oh no, the links seem to have stopped working...well, it may just be a stopgap, but I've reuploaded "In the Jungle":

http://www.filedropper.com/inthejungleanalysis

[Ludwig 1,120]

Thanks again, Datameister for this detailed analysis. You've broken the ice and given us a great starting point for discussion of this great cue. Kudos. I've now been through the first 14 bars of it and can say the following.

I would agree with the D locrian setting of the opening. I'm always a bit sceptical of using modes as a means of analysis in music where there doesn't seem to be a governing tonic for very long or even at all because I don't think that's actually how we hear that kind of music. But here it seems pretty clear that the cello flourish is in that mode, which wouldn't be too convincing on its own. But notice that the parallel minor chords you point out are actually all contained within that mode as well. And because D is clearly sounded as a pedal in these first few bars and a D minor triad emerges in m. 3, I think it's actually useful to call it D locrian, though a D locrian that's obscured by the unusual harmonies that open the cue.

Your skills at chordal analysis are excellent as usual. What I would love to see more of is a sense of how you feel the chords, lines, and notes of the cue go together and are drawn into some kind of unity. Admittedly, it gets more interpretive that way, but it would make things very interesting to discuss. As you are someone who's studied these scores and sketches in such vast detail, it would be great to know how you conceive of the larger spans of music. I'll add my thoughts, which are, as I say, a matter of interpretation.

I see a number of unifying elements in these first 14 bars (some of which you've mentioned as observations in particular spots in the cue):

1) Parallel minor chords (sometimes with added notes)

2) Bass notes giving a sense of tonal centre

3) Transposition of chords and melodic lines by semitone

4) The atonal set (014) - this is equivalent to the (0,8,11) you often cite, but (014) is its more proper and concise name as an atonal set

5) The atonal set (013), which might be construed as a variation of the (014) that we first hear in the cue

For 1), we've both already noticed the parallel chords in the first two bars. Then of course there are the EbmM7 and F#mM7 chords in m. 4, also in parallel. There is also a very similar Ebm(add9) chord in the next bar you didn't mention. It's not parallelism, but it's close to it. This kind of thing happens a lot, where there's almost a pattern but it's off by a note or two. "Fuzzy" parallelism, you might call it.

As for 2), the bass seems to represent a tonic with most notes, especially when accompanied by consonant minor chords overtop. In mm. 6-8, the texture here is dyadic, with consonances between the lines that usually suggest minor chords due to the minor 3rds between them (as on the downbeats of mm. 7 and 8). Still, the chords are not fully formed here - i.e., when does a minor 3rd suggest a minor chord and when it is just a minor 3rd? In mm. 9-14, the melody almost always forms minor 3rds with the bass on strong beats. As I've said in most blog posts before, Williams frequently uses parallel (and therefore anti-functional) minor chords for scenes of mystery like this one.

3) is most evident in three places so far. The haunting alto flute melody we hear begins on an A, then is transposed (and varied) in m. 6 to start a semitone higher on Bb. The bass also rises from D to Eb at this point. Another place is in mm. 9-10, where we have those eerie parallel minor chords again, now descending by semitones from Gm to F#m to Fm. And the third place is, similarly, in mm. 12-14, where the bass and melody again form minor 3rds to suggest minor chords, and again drop down in semitones, the bass tracing F#-F-E.

4) and 5) should be considered together as I implied. And both come up in several places. What's crucial to understand here is that the set (014) or (013) is not a motive in the traditional sense where you have a certain order of notes (say, the first seven notes of the Star Wars main theme), but is rather a collection of abstract intervals that may sound in any order, and may even be "composed out" with intervening notes, thus being somewhat hidden. What (014) means is that you have a collection that involves a starting note (which we arbitrarily call "0"), a note one semitone away from that note, and another note 4 semitones away from the starting note (in the same direction as the initial semitone). Hence (014). (013) would mean almost the same, a starting note, a note a semitone away, and another note 3 semitones away in the same direction.

Consider the opening melodic gesture in the alto flute, which has A-Bb-G-Eb-Gb. We can break this down into two overlapping sets. A-Bb-G would be a (013) and G-Eb-Gb a (014), so the melody there is a combination of the two. Now consider the bass line in mm. 6-7, which has D-Db-F-D. Again, these combine to form a (014). In mm. 8-10, the bass goes E-C#-G-F#-F, which doesn't seem to have this pattern. But the G-F# may be thought of as intervening notes between the C# and F, thus E-C#(-G-F#)-F. Without these intervening notes, we have E-C#-F, which form another (014). It's as though the G "overshoots" the F then falls by semitone down to it to complete the (014). That's the kind of hidden statement I was talking about. But again, this is interpretation, so feel free to disagree. In mm. 11-13, the bass then has D-F#-F, yet another (014). Another spot that these sets come in is in the intense string chords that enter at m. 11. There, the chords on the second half of each bar are dissonant chords. In m. 11, F-C#-D, or (014). In m. 12, F#-D#-E, or (013), in m. 13, E-C#-D#, or (013), and in m. 14, E-C#-D, another (013).

That's all I have time for at the moment. Once again, thanks for your analysis. Always a pleasure to read.

[tedfud 38]

Fascinating as always . Do you think then that JW is employing particular disciplines with these pitch sets ? I know his score with Stomu Yamashta used a lot of atonal techniques so he is obviously well schooled in them .

T

[Datameister 2,037]

Thanks for your excellent, detailed reply, Ludwig! I can't argue with anything you've said...those are all important factors in that cue's effectiveness and cohesiveness, and they're all techniques that have "Williams" written all over them.

I'm trying to push myself to step back periodically and study the broad strokes of these cues, rather than just getting completely focused on whatever chunk I'm currently analyzing. As you said, it gets more subjective and interpretive when you do that, which in a way makes the conversation more interesting, so I'm trying to do that more. Maybe I ought to make the introductory paragraphs longer and/or add a conclusion that sums up Williams' approach to the cue?

In response to your question, tedfud, my suspicion is that Williams is just instinctively playing around with (a)tonalitieis that he's studied, absorbed, and discovered over the decades. I could be way off on this, but I don't think there's necessarily a conscious effort to follow any particular discipline.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

I would agree that there isn't. It's dramatic instinct.

[tedfud 38]

but isn't the point of these pitch set's to use them in a recognisable way. You are in effect trying to create some sort of order in a disorganised set of tones. There seems to be many ways to do this.

if this is what they are : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_theory_(music)

T

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Williams is using the building blocks of serial composition, which creates a similar sound intervallically, but is more pliable to the dramatic needs of a film. Take the (013) and (014) pitch sets Ludwig mentions. These are two of the most common trichords you will find in dodecaphonic music - (015) is another, but that one's more favoured by Jerry Goldsmith, who loved quartal harmony (though you'll find incidences of this in Williams oeuvre, too, though not to the same extent). Of the serial composers, Webern in particular favoured his (013)s and (014)s, often building entire rows out of them. For a film music example of that, take David Shire's tone row from The Taking of Pelham One Two Three - A-C-B (013) Bb-Db-D (014) G-Gb-G (014) E-F-G# (014).

Jerry Goldsmith on The Demise of Mrs. Baylock from The Omen and its relationship to the Main Title:

'That's an example of where I took the [original] ostinato motif out of it and changed it by transposing the intervals and changing the rhythm and treating it in a quasi-serial way.'

Also:

'I haven't done a totally serial procedure, but neither have the serial composers. But what difference does it makes? No one can tell the difference.'

[tedfud 38]

ah Pelham.....what a score...still it's all about that Bassline .You could buy a house with that riff. True he needed to crack the sound of what went on top and for that he built a row....and it works...but it would be nothing without the riff. But THERE is the discipline. To make it work he had to tap into technique . The thing that get's me about Williams, the more I study his music,is how much he knows. I adore Herrmann and Barry but you'll probably hear all their ideas in the first 20 mins. From then on it's variations ( hey they're great ideas ! ) . But with Williams there is so much depth . it's getting a handle on the techniques he uses to flesh out all that time that fascinates me.....and in THIS cue lies the secrets to his darker stuff. the tricks he uses. Like Shire and his row...i'm convinced there are identifiable techniques he is using to make it work.....i'd like to learn those

these pitch classes are really interesting . Can you give examples of the (015) favoured by Jerry ?

all the best

t