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Was "Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale" the full return of the Imperial march you had dreamed of?


BLUMENKOHL
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I can't help but feel let down even 11 years later. This is arguably the most bombastic statement of Vader's theme in the prequel trilogy. It's certainly the first true statement of the theme in its full glory.

What a missed opportunity, eh? We waited two decades. And all we got was a lightly modified version of the Imperial theme from "The Emperor Arrives" in RotJ.

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It also doesn't help that the album is arranged so that you hit the magnificent statement of the Trade Federation theme at the end of "Bounty Hunter's Hot Pursuit" first. So now you already have even bigger expectations.

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It was never going to be more than that

The original Finale he wrote was way different.(it was great though based on the mock ups we got a few years back)

Also the most bombastic version of The Imperial March is the unused section in TESB when we first see the Imperial fleet. I don't see how it can get louder than that

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I love that statement of the theme, personally. I actually think it's better than the versions from ROTJ that you mentioned, Blumenkohl - I was never that big a fan of that score's use of the theme, overall. (Although the quiet variations heard for Vader's death scene are amazing, I admit.)

Also the most bombastic version of The Imperial March is the unused section in TESB when we first see the Imperial fleet. I don't see how it can get louder than that

In terms of sheer brute force, I agree...that statement wins. The concert suite works fine the way they used it in that scene, but the original passage is just chillingly forceful. Love it.

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I think it's a great moment as well. The bit of brass counterpoint in the middle is pretty exhilarating.

That's actually Across the Stars :)

Romao you just made my day! What a cool observation.

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Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

Vader's death might be my favorite of the whole series.

Jedi also has one of the best force theme statements at Vader's funeral.

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Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

Meh, I still prefer Williams' approach to the theme in ESB overall, at least when it comes to the louder statements.

Jedi also has one of the best force theme statements at Vader's funeral.

True, that!

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Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

Agreed. That final statement at the end of Faking the Code is probably my favourite in the entire saga.

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In my case, after all these years I must admit I have not integrated or digested yet the music of the prequels.

For me the movies are still full of major defaults, and so the music is.

Apart from the concert suites, nothing impressed me in these scores.

I always loved the "End Titles" cues that John Williams wrote for the original prelogy.

Recently, I have listen to the Finales and "End titles" of the prequels again, and I'm not shure I love them.

I think I found why.

A Finale is a Finale... in a movie, when there is only one big finale scene, it's more easy I think for a composer to write a coherent and majestic score.

When the Finale, is not a finale, but just a succession of little scenes, because there are too much stories in background to close... it shows in the music.

I even wonder if John Williams really composed the Finales and End Titles of the prequels, or if he simply ask his arranger to "paste" some bits of themes together to please the erratic montage of George Lucas...

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Apart from the concert suites, nothing impressed me in these scores.

I'm the complete opposite. The concert suites bore me to tears, but there's some brilliant underscore for the the three films. Unfortunately a lot of it isn't officially released.

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I think the statement works well for what it is in AOTC. I just wish the theme had gotten some more workout in ROTS.

Also the most bombastic version of The Imperial March is the unused section in TESB when we first see the Imperial fleet. I don't see how it can get louder than that

That's one of the best, yes. I can understand why they replaced it with the more "generic" concert version in the film, but the original version is much more powerful.

I even wonder if John Williams really composed the Finales and End Titles of the prequels, or if he simply ask his arranger to "paste" some bits of themes together to please the erratic montage of George Lucas...

Well, the end titles all feature the concert versions of the new major themes, so Williams certainly spent plenty of time on them. He just wrote them in a way so that they could be separated from the rest, i.e. more as standalone pieces rather than integrating them into the end credits framework.

I love the twist he put on the finale/end title transitions for the prequels though.

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Bilbo and Marian hit on the big issues for me. I think GL had Williams overdo it with the foreshadowing, with this being a big example. I don't fathom the logic that prevailed: "We COULD tease and hint the Imperial March over the course of the trilogy, finally unleashing it in Episode III, when the Empire becomes reality and Anakin turns to the Dark Side. Fuck that. How about we just shoot our load now, and then track these really iconic, important scenes with the music that should've been kept in for the CGI monster battle?"

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What twist? having them "fade out" instead ending with a bombastic ending?

The new version of the bridge between the main theme and the new themes/concert suites. At 5:27 in AOTC.

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Well, the entire first part of AOTC's end credits (including that passage) is just the recording from TPM. They didn't bother re-recording it, just like with the main titles.

Q.E.D.

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I think the insert at the end of AOTC is good, but not as great as it could be. It's just a bit underwhelming likely due to the terrible recording and/or mixing of the score. There's actuallysome pretty kick-ass music in this score. But not if Shawn Murphy has anything to say about it.

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Williams was trying to build on the Imperial March until Episode 3. So even with the scene of the Clonetroopers taking off, he still held back on it to stick with the plan. Opting for that described "orchestral blowout" that we hear a piece of in the Across the Stars video.

But while recording it, it just became obvious that there would be no better place in the prequels to use a bombastic version of the Imperial March. So I completely understand why they changed it and went with what they did. I think it worked out great.

I too was also expecting a version of it, maybe with a choir, to be used during Vaders assault on the Jedi temple. Unfortunately the editing wasn't complete with those scenes following the turn in the office and thus Williams just couldn't write anything. The same was for the earlier Kashyyyk scenes showing Luminara Unduli. In fact, the shot of Unduli earlier in the movie was meant to be used during Order 66. But Lucas edited it down and used it as an establishing shot of Kashyyyk. So where once it was a post battle scene where Unduli was about to be shot up, was now a pre battle scene showing her giving instructions to the clones before editing out her death.

So many of the shots on Kashyyyk and Order 66 were filmed in post production a year after principal photography. Had Lucas just filmed them in 2003, he might have had a better edit for Williams to work with.

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Wow, thanks Stravinsky! What a pleasure to read that was!

The TPM music was always planned to be in those spots, sadly, there are NO massively long unused passages out there.

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A great story stravinsky! Thank you so much for sharing this kind of insider info! I am so happy you had such a brilliant opporturnity not only to meet Mr. Williams but to participate in his music making too. :)

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Thanks Jason, Kühni and Incanus. As far as I am concerned Williams is consistently one of the greatest Film composers of all time. I also enjoy the music of Goldsmith. However when Williams was at his zenith in the 70's no one could touch him. He is the daddy of them all! Long may he continue to write his optimistic music. It was a great honour to work for him even if only fir a few hours in the middle if a large choir. I will never forget being a small part of the Star Wars story! Cheers Ray

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It's too bad they don't give every orchestra and choir member who performed a copy of the recording sessions :P Did you get a free copy of the OST at least?

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Even if you disliked the Prequels as movies it shouldn't stop you from liking the scores. I personally think the Prequel scores are good, especially in expanded / near complete form. Although my favorite Star Wars score will ALWAYS be The Empire Strikes Back.

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