Was "Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale" the full return of the Imperial march you had dreamed of?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I can't help but feel let down even 11 years later. This is arguably the most bombastic statement of Vader's theme in the prequel trilogy. It's certainly the first true statement of the theme in its full glory.

What a missed opportunity, eh? We waited two decades. And all we got was a lightly modified version of the Imperial theme from "The Emperor Arrives" in RotJ.

[Faleel 5,337]

Well, originally it was not going to be even that!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

It also doesn't help that the album is arranged so that you hit the magnificent statement of the Trade Federation theme at the end of "Bounty Hunter's Hot Pursuit" first. So now you already have even bigger expectations.

[King Mark 3,625]

It was never going to be more than that

The original Finale he wrote was way different.(it was great though based on the mock ups we got a few years back)

Also the most bombastic version of The Imperial March is the unused section in TESB when we first see the Imperial fleet. I don't see how it can get louder than that

[Datameister 2,037]

I love that statement of the theme, personally. I actually think it's better than the versions from ROTJ that you mentioned, Blumenkohl - I was never that big a fan of that score's use of the theme, overall. (Although the quiet variations heard for Vader's death scene are amazing, I admit.)

Also the most bombastic version of The Imperial March is the unused section in TESB when we first see the Imperial fleet. I don't see how it can get louder than that

In terms of sheer brute force, I agree...that statement wins. The concert suite works fine the way they used it in that scene, but the original passage is just chillingly forceful. Love it.

[Dixon Hill 4,232]

I think it's a great moment as well. The bit of brass counterpoint in the middle is pretty exhilarating.

[indy4 155]

Love it!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

[Romão 2,274]

I think it's a great moment as well. The bit of brass counterpoint in the middle is pretty exhilarating.

That's actually Across the Stars

[indy4 155]

I think it's a great moment as well. The bit of brass counterpoint in the middle is pretty exhilarating.

That's actually Across the Stars

Romao you just made my day! What a cool observation.

[Red 75]

Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

Vader's death might be my favorite of the whole series.

Jedi also has one of the best force theme statements at Vader's funeral.

[Datameister 2,037]

Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

Meh, I still prefer Williams' approach to the theme in ESB overall, at least when it comes to the louder statements.

Jedi also has one of the best force theme statements at Vader's funeral.

True, that!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Jedi has a lot of the best renditions of the Imperial March. Vader and the Emperor's arrivals, Emperor Confronts Luke, Faking the Code, Forest Ambush, etc.

Agreed. That final statement at the end of Faking the Code is probably my favourite in the entire saga.

[Bespin 8,478]

In my case, after all these years I must admit I have not integrated or digested yet the music of the prequels.

For me the movies are still full of major defaults, and so the music is.

Apart from the concert suites, nothing impressed me in these scores.

I always loved the "End Titles" cues that John Williams wrote for the original prelogy.

Recently, I have listen to the Finales and "End titles" of the prequels again, and I'm not shure I love them.

I think I found why.

A Finale is a Finale... in a movie, when there is only one big finale scene, it's more easy I think for a composer to write a coherent and majestic score.

When the Finale, is not a finale, but just a succession of little scenes, because there are too much stories in background to close... it shows in the music.

I even wonder if John Williams really composed the Finales and End Titles of the prequels, or if he simply ask his arranger to "paste" some bits of themes together to please the erratic montage of George Lucas...

[Bilbo 3,709]

I always felt that the Imperial March should have played as Anakin/Vader marched on the Jedi Temple with the 501st in Operation Knightfall.

[crocodile 7,984]

This part of the score is the most exciting prequel music ever. For me, that is.

Karol

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Apart from the concert suites, nothing impressed me in these scores.

I'm the complete opposite. The concert suites bore me to tears, but there's some brilliant underscore for the the three films. Unfortunately a lot of it isn't officially released.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

don't care.

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

I think the statement works well for what it is in AOTC. I just wish the theme had gotten some more workout in ROTS.

Also the most bombastic version of The Imperial March is the unused section in TESB when we first see the Imperial fleet. I don't see how it can get louder than that

That's one of the best, yes. I can understand why they replaced it with the more "generic" concert version in the film, but the original version is much more powerful.

I even wonder if John Williams really composed the Finales and End Titles of the prequels, or if he simply ask his arranger to "paste" some bits of themes together to please the erratic montage of George Lucas...

Well, the end titles all feature the concert versions of the new major themes, so Williams certainly spent plenty of time on them. He just wrote them in a way so that they could be separated from the rest, i.e. more as standalone pieces rather than integrating them into the end credits framework.

I love the twist he put on the finale/end title transitions for the prequels though.

[Faleel 5,337]

What twist? having them "fade out" instead ending with a bombastic ending?

I think AOTC has the third best finale cue (ESB 1st, ANH 2nd, AOTC 3rd, ROTS 4th, ROTJ 5th, TPM 6th)

[Delorean90 42]

Bilbo and Marian hit on the big issues for me. I think GL had Williams overdo it with the foreshadowing, with this being a big example. I don't fathom the logic that prevailed: "We COULD tease and hint the Imperial March over the course of the trilogy, finally unleashing it in Episode III, when the Empire becomes reality and Anakin turns to the Dark Side. Fuck that. How about we just shoot our load now, and then track these really iconic, important scenes with the music that should've been kept in for the CGI monster battle?"

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

What twist? having them "fade out" instead ending with a bombastic ending?

The new version of the bridge between the main theme and the new themes/concert suites. At 5:27 in AOTC.

[Faleel 5,337]

The first part is tracked from TPM and the last note (at 3:32) is tracked from TPM and Zam's Dirty Trick (but pitched down) though right?

[Marian Schedenig 8,172]

It may be tracked (I've lost count of what was freshly recorded and what was simply reused over the prequels), but it was new in TPM.

[Datameister 2,037]

Well, the entire first part of AOTC's end credits (including that passage) is just the recording from TPM. They didn't bother re-recording it, just like with the main titles.

[Bespin 8,478]

Well, the entire first part of AOTC's end credits (including that passage) is just the recording from TPM. They didn't bother re-recording it, just like with the main titles.

Q.E.D.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Most rousing statement of that theme in all six movies.

Also the only truly exhilarating moment of that score.

IMO.

[Faleel 5,337]

?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rsTOcoDvM

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I think the insert at the end of AOTC is good, but not as great as it could be. It's just a bit underwhelming likely due to the terrible recording and/or mixing of the score. There's actuallysome pretty kick-ass music in this score. But not if Shawn Murphy has anything to say about it.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Yes it was. One of the best moments in the prequels and in my opinion the best statement of the Imperial March in all films.

[Krang 1]

Williams was trying to build on the Imperial March until Episode 3. So even with the scene of the Clonetroopers taking off, he still held back on it to stick with the plan. Opting for that described "orchestral blowout" that we hear a piece of in the Across the Stars video.

But while recording it, it just became obvious that there would be no better place in the prequels to use a bombastic version of the Imperial March. So I completely understand why they changed it and went with what they did. I think it worked out great.

I too was also expecting a version of it, maybe with a choir, to be used during Vaders assault on the Jedi temple. Unfortunately the editing wasn't complete with those scenes following the turn in the office and thus Williams just couldn't write anything. The same was for the earlier Kashyyyk scenes showing Luminara Unduli. In fact, the shot of Unduli earlier in the movie was meant to be used during Order 66. But Lucas edited it down and used it as an establishing shot of Kashyyyk. So where once it was a post battle scene where Unduli was about to be shot up, was now a pre battle scene showing her giving instructions to the clones before editing out her death.

So many of the shots on Kashyyyk and Order 66 were filmed in post production a year after principal photography. Had Lucas just filmed them in 2003, he might have had a better edit for Williams to work with.

[gkgyver 1,645]

?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6rsTOcoDvM

I'm well aware of those.

[stravinsky 203]

Well I'm so glad to hear this again (even though its a mock up) after almost 12 years. I was singing Tenor in the extra chorus of Covent Garden at the time in Verdi's Simon Boccanegra. Between stage rehearsals Terry Edwards came up to me and asked if I would like to sing in the two AOTC sessions which were due the following week. I nearly fainted. I had done a couple of gigs with London Voices before this and the most recent had been a recording of a Symphonic Jazz Cantata by Dave Brubeck called "The Gates of Justice" which we recorded at Abbey Road.

I turned up at Abbey Road and the entire day was one of utter enchantment for me. It is this one deleted passage of underscore which dazzled me the most. Williams recorded the entire thing three or four times in front of me and I got to hear those gigantic orchestral chords over and over again. At the time I described the effect as a "massive orchestral blowout" and I really looked forward to hearing it on the official soundtrack album. Chris Chrusher sent me an advance promo of the AOTC soundtrack album a few months later and I was very disappointed to hear the Imperial March used as replacement. I thought this was a cheap and inappropriate cop-out. Much like the entire wretched movie itself. Will this legendary portion ever see the light of day on CD?

If it had been me I would have left any statement of the Imperial March right to the end of ROTS when Anakin/Vader is on the operating table. I would have commisioned Williams to transform the Imperial March into a gigantic choral statement. Can you imagine a 60 piece choir of the calibre of London Voices singing the Imperial March as an illustrative index of Vader's magnitude? Sadly even such a grandiloquent statement could not have saved the rushed botched job of Vader's incarnation. There was relatively little to do for us in the chorus that day so most of us were trying to contort our heads up to catch snippets of what was happening on the gigantic screen above our heads. I remember seeing huge bars rolling across the screen which acted as a click track in time with the music. Also I was mildly horrified to see images of a computer generated Yoda (the CGI image wasnt entirely fleshed out at this stage) doing somersaults with a tiny light sabre. Oh please! Utterly dreadful.

I was moving house at the time of the premiere of AOTC and I almost missed my chance to see the cast and crew showing at Leicester Sq because the tickets had been sent to my previous address. Luckily I intercepted my mail and was able to attend. I went with my good friend Richard Voice and we sat through this largely interminable gadbage dressed up as a Star Wars movie. It was just an orgy of not very good CGI. We were both well versed with the soundtrack for TPM and were both equally dismayed to hear snippets of the TPM score used as genuine underscore. One of the main qualities of the Star Wars movies was the music and this aberration and butchering of Williams music was a benchmark which set AOTC apart from all the other movies. Incidentally does anyone know if Williams wrote an original set of cues for the scenes which were ultimately scored with rehashed snippets from the score of TPM? Or was the ratatouille of jumbled up snippets the first and only choice? What a mess!

This was one of the best paid singing jobs I ever did and I still have the Lucasfilm invoice to prove it. In between the two sessions I bravely walked over to Mr Williams who was standing at the podium poring over his gigantic printed score which had "STAR WARS II" written in big bold letters on the front page. I introduced myself and by this time I was physically shaking. I told him the story he's probably heard a thousand times...that as an 8 year old in Glasgow I was significantly influenced by his vast orchestral frescoes so much so that I eventually made classical music my career and thus went on to study opera at the RCM. I distinctly remember saying "Mr Williams! Your music will last for hundreds and hundreds of years!" To which he retorted "Yes but will we still be around in hundreds of years?". What I remember about him in those brief moments was his deportment and incredible graces. I had my photo taken with him and it hangs on my living room wall. It was a perfect day in many respects except for one thing. In my stupour I forgot to shake maestro Williams hand!

[Jay 37,287]

Wow, thanks Stravinsky! What a pleasure to read that was!

The TPM music was always planned to be in those spots, sadly, there are NO massively long unused passages out there.

[Kühni 485]

.

[Incanus 5,713]

A great story stravinsky! Thank you so much for sharing this kind of insider info! I am so happy you had such a brilliant opporturnity not only to meet Mr. Williams but to participate in his music making too.

[stravinsky 203]

Thanks Jason, Kühni and Incanus. As far as I am concerned Williams is consistently one of the greatest Film composers of all time. I also enjoy the music of Goldsmith. However when Williams was at his zenith in the 70's no one could touch him. He is the daddy of them all! Long may he continue to write his optimistic music. It was a great honour to work for him even if only fir a few hours in the middle if a large choir. I will never forget being a small part of the Star Wars story! Cheers Ray

[Jay 37,287]

It's too bad they don't give every orchestra and choir member who performed a copy of the recording sessions Did you get a free copy of the OST at least?

[Trent B 337]

Even if you disliked the Prequels as movies it shouldn't stop you from liking the scores. I personally think the Prequel scores are good, especially in expanded / near complete form. Although my favorite Star Wars score will ALWAYS be The Empire Strikes Back.

[Jay 37,287]

Oh yea, the films are rubbish but the scores are great!

[stravinsky 203]

No free copy of the Soundtrack Album I'm afraid. Yes as usual Williams elevated Clones from mere doggerel to something at least passable. My favourite Star Wars score is also Empire.