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The Official James Horner Thread


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Wojciech Kilar himself claimed in a couple of interviews around 1999-2000 that he was approached to score The Lord of the Rings. And that he was relieved it didn't pan out. Here is a translated quote from one of them (from one of Poland's biggest newspapers):

 

Quote

 

JSz: Will you write music for Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" adaptation Peter Jackson is doing now?

WK: I don't know. I talked to Peter Jackson several times and I told him that in the middle of this year I'll finish the oratory (1) I'm writing now. It's middle of the year now, we'll see what happen. I see in my imagination the rush that is going on in the ofices of the agents of the greatest holwywood composers, how are they trying to get that ontract. The "LotR" budget is now about $200 millions, you know. (2)

I'd like to and I wouldn't like to. I'm afraid of amount of work it reqiures. Besides, I'm planning to write a symphony. The screenplay is great, even if the book was a little hard to read now. "Lord of the Rings" means three films, Jackson asked me if I'll write the music for all three. I answered "Let's make the first one for a try and then see. May bye there will be some themes reccuring throught all trilogy, just like in "Star Wars".

 

 

I remember reading an interview in another Polish magazine Film where he said the similar thing.

 

Horner was probably asked due to his connection to Chris Colombus. It makes sense.

 

Karol

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4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I was reading the Wikipedia page for Fellowship of the Ring, and it mentions that James Horner turned down an offer to score this movie, as well as the first Harry Potter.

The closest collaborators interviewed for the book confirmed this.

 

I have over 150 interviews with Horner organized by keyword so it is easy for me to find the information for you:
https://www.classicfm.com/composers/horner/news/lord-of-the-rings/

https://audioboom.com/posts/3307396-james-horner-my-lord-of-the-rings-soundtrack-would-have-been-quite-different

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Thanks!

 

As a fan of both Shore's LOTR and Williams' Philosopher's Stone, I think it's fascinating to hear that these scores almost happened with different composers.

 

I'm glad JW and HS did them, but it'd be fascinating to hear what Horner could've done.

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I can't remember where exactly it came from, but I saw an interview with Richard Kraft where he revealed that Basil Poledouris was also in the competition, but he ultimately missed the opportunity because he took too long to decide

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On 29/01/2022 at 2:11 PM, Edmilson said:

I'm glad JW and HS did them, but it'd be fascinating to hear what Horner could've done.

I think we have a pretty good idea actually. We've heard his Voldemort theme already. 😄

 

Karol

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On 29/01/2022 at 2:51 PM, Corellian2019 said:

I can't remember where exactly it came from, but I saw an interview with Richard Kraft where he revealed that Basil Poledouris was also in the competition, but he ultimately missed the opportunity because he took too long to decide

 

Found it! Starts at 13:22 of this documentary: 

 

 

I was slightly wrong; no specific reason was given for Poledouris ultimately not getting the job

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17 minutes ago, Corellian2019 said:

 

Found it! Starts at 13:22 of this documentary: 

 

 

I was slightly wrong; no specific reason was given for Poledouris ultimately not getting the job

It's hard to imagine the score any other way but Basil and Horner would have done fantastic jobs but in a very different style.  Sort of like imagining John Williams scoring Ridley Scott's Alien (1979) which he was in a running for.  The Goldsmith score is fantastic but I'm sure JW's would have been as well and probably nothing like what Goldsmith did.

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Watching Mask of Zorro for the first time in a long time. I used to think there wasn’t much music missing outside the ost. Granted all the BIG set pieces are on there. But there’s a good 20 or so minutes of unreleased cues that I’d love to have in an expansion in the near future. 
 

-When the Murieta Bros. Escape after robbing the payroll and are stopped by Captain Love. It continues into Don Rafael’s arrival in the prison at night. In film this is like a 5-6 minute cue. 

 

- Diego’s Escape from prison

 

- Alejandro first wrangling of Tornado in the street when the horse is spooked. (Real fun swirling arabesque kinda writing here)

 

and a good handful of connecting tissue cues. I’m sure there’s also some cues that were recorded and dropped from the film. Please release the Horner Zorro collection! 😄

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I bet the first one will be released, definitely. It is a popular score and it was recorded in London so no re-use fees drama. Not sure about the second one, though, as it was released in 2005 and recorded in LA. Depending on when in 2005, I suppose...

 

Karol

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On 29/01/2022 at 5:47 AM, Edmilson said:

I was reading the Wikipedia page for Fellowship of the Ring, and it mentions that James Horner turned down an offer to score this movie, as well as the first Harry Potter.

 

The source for these claims is the obituary below, which just says that Horner refused to score the two movies but doesn't provide further explanation:

 

https://www.avclub.com/r-i-p-james-horner-1798281000

 

So that means Howard Shore and John Williams weren't the first choices for their respective movies? Who else was considered before they got the Jobs?

I can't seem to find any mention of a James Horner/Harry Potter connection elsewhere... that's interesting.

We know Williams was asked to compose a piece of music for the teaser trailer (which of course became "Hedwig's Theme") and that was already released in March of 2001. So I suppose Horner would've passed before then, even? Seems unlikely to me, but I'd love to learn more about it.

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Williams scored Stepmom in 1998 and was set to score Bicentennial Man in 1999 before a scheduling conflict with Angela's Ashes (according to Scott Bettencourt's six-part article Timelines: John Williams published on FSM website in 2007). So I doubt anyone was asked to score Harry Potter before Williams (again, he scored the teaser, so he was hired earlier than what is usual).

 

I'm not saying it's impossible Horner was asked, I just don't believe it without some kind of source.

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8 hours ago, Once said:

Williams scored Stepmom in 1998 and was set to score Bicentennial Man in 1999 before a scheduling conflict with Angela's Ashes (according to Scott Bettencourt's six-part article Timelines: John Williams published on FSM website in 2007). So I doubt anyone was asked to score Harry Potter before Williams (again, he scored the teaser, so he was hired earlier than what is usual).

 

I'm not saying it's impossible Horner was asked, I just don't believe it without some kind of source.

 

It was (at that time) not unusual for studios to send out inquiries to all A-list composers to be on the safe side for big tentpoles. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hasn't a similar video been posted before?  Maybe it was just photos.  I definitely remember seeing the mountains of bric-a-brac he had around his studio before.

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James Hoarder.

 

But yes, I have an acquaintance who also visited the studio a while back and took some photos/videos, so it's been around for a while.

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I hadn't seen the video, thanks for sharing. It's fascinating to see how passionate he was at collecting these whimsical things, and it painted quite a picture when combined with the insights from his family. The mention that music may have been the only way for James to communicate his emotions was very touching. Listening to the composers whose music we love, I think we do get some kind of emotional sustenance from it, and feel like we know them on some deeper level. But we don't always get to hear what they're feeling while writing it, and we know that film scores are meant to manipulate our feelings by their very nature. I like the idea that writing the music could have been not only a job, but just as meaningful for him emotionally as it was for us on the receiving end.

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I don't mean to kick a hornet's nest but I've been listening to some Horner scores lately and while his music is enjoyable, I find it hard to hold him in particularly high regard as a composer when so many instances of his music is undisguised homages to classical composers and some of the most famous classical pieces of all time like O' Fortuna and Charging Fort Wagner in Glory. It's almost literally the same piece, but not and not credited as such.

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I have no problem with Horner quoting classical composers, but I do find mildly annoying when he quotes himself in movies that couldn't be more different from each other. 

 

For example, the quotes of Braveheart's love theme on Bicentennial Man and Bobby Jones: Stroke of a Genius only serves to weaken the impact of its beautiful melody. 

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You hear similarities between the different works of a composer and you find that he sometimes reuse or rework his best melodies?

 

I call that having "style".

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I do agree that, although flawed (like every composer), I miss Horner and his scores, specially considering the utter mediocrity that has been plaguing Hollywood's scores lately.

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Stravinsky based a whole ballet on a theme.by Pergelosi- PULCINELLA.

 

IIRC GLORY originally temped with that damn Orff piece and Horner was instructed to copy it as close as possible.

Horner objected.

I think the film uses the Orff piece for the most part.

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4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

For example, the quotes of Braveheart's love theme on Bicentennial Man and Bobby Jones: Stroke of a Genius only serves to weaken the impact of its beautiful melody. 


I have always enjoyed when these reappear in new contexts. The theme you're referring to was also used in The Missing and was glorious in the end titles for it. 

 

The Braveheart love theme was not used in Bobby Jones. It was actually the "Freedom!" idea used in that film. 

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On 8/3/22 at 3:53 PM, Disco Stu said:

Hasn't a similar video been posted before? 

yes, on vimeo, originailly.

 

 

On 12/3/22 at 6:17 AM, MikeH said:

This unedited footage from the Back to Titanic sessions just popped up a few weeks ago:

 

this is great, thanks!

Too bad there's no footage of the Titanic recording sessions…

Oh and boy I'm so happy and sad at the same time thinking back to London 2015, where I could experience Titanic Live – with Sissel, and James… just 6 weeks before his death. :(

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3 hours ago, LSH said:

Has anybody here seen the live-to-picture Titanic concert?

 

I did, the „original“ performance in 2015 with Sissel. Ludwig Wicki conducted then, too. It was really great. I would imagine it sounds different with another vocal soloist, of course… 

THey also performed the band music from the Third Class party live, which seemed very unnecessary and didn't work very well technically, either. But apart from that it was great. 

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1 hour ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

I did, the „original“ performance in 2015 with Sissel. Ludwig Wicki conducted then, too. It was really great. I would imagine it sounds different with another vocal soloist, of course… 

THey also performed the band music from the Third Class party live, which seemed very unnecessary and didn't work very well technically, either. But apart from that it was great. 

 

Oh, how great.

 

I'm tempted to give it a go. I have a friend in London who's also interested and it's only a quick train ride down. Good excuse for a night out anyway!

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A good example of musical parody is J.S. Bach's reuse of three cantata in his Christmas Oratorio. 

 

Everybody did it at some degrees. Leave James Horner alone!

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What is your thought about Mahler's Song of a Wayfarer...

 

and his Symphony No. 1?

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bespin said:

A good example of musical parody is J.S. Bach's reuse of three cantata in his Christmas Oratorio. 

 

Everybody did it at some degrees. Leave James Horner alone!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_music

Not just everybody...the very pinnacles...Beethoven, Mahler, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams (Pilgrims Progress/Symphony No. 5, etc.) etc.

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It's easy today with recordings and computers to find identical passages, themes or ideas in a composer corpus.

 

Music existed before computers and CDs...

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3 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said:

I knew it!!! No needs for trumpets at all. Horns can do it :) Very cool! Did you transcribe by ear or is the score in some way floating around? 😇


Thank you !
All done by ear :D 

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  • 4 weeks later...

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