crocodile 8,000 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Wojciech Kilar himself claimed in a couple of interviews around 1999-2000 that he was approached to score The Lord of the Rings. And that he was relieved it didn't pan out. Here is a translated quote from one of them (from one of Poland's biggest newspapers): Quote JSz: Will you write music for Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" adaptation Peter Jackson is doing now? WK: I don't know. I talked to Peter Jackson several times and I told him that in the middle of this year I'll finish the oratory (1) I'm writing now. It's middle of the year now, we'll see what happen. I see in my imagination the rush that is going on in the ofices of the agents of the greatest holwywood composers, how are they trying to get that ontract. The "LotR" budget is now about $200 millions, you know. (2) I'd like to and I wouldn't like to. I'm afraid of amount of work it reqiures. Besides, I'm planning to write a symphony. The screenplay is great, even if the book was a little hard to read now. "Lord of the Rings" means three films, Jackson asked me if I'll write the music for all three. I answered "Let's make the first one for a try and then see. May bye there will be some themes reccuring throught all trilogy, just like in "Star Wars". I remember reading an interview in another Polish magazine Film where he said the similar thing. Horner was probably asked due to his connection to Chris Colombus. It makes sense. Karol Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 What's the link between Columbus and LotR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GerateWohl 4,354 Posted January 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 29, 2022 Columbus discovered Middle Earth, too? Jurassic Shark, Edmilson, Smeltington and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Oh, I meant Harry Potter. 😄 Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Baptiste Martin 254 Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 4 hours ago, Edmilson said: I was reading the Wikipedia page for Fellowship of the Ring, and it mentions that James Horner turned down an offer to score this movie, as well as the first Harry Potter. The closest collaborators interviewed for the book confirmed this. I have over 150 interviews with Horner organized by keyword so it is easy for me to find the information for you:https://www.classicfm.com/composers/horner/news/lord-of-the-rings/ https://audioboom.com/posts/3307396-james-horner-my-lord-of-the-rings-soundtrack-would-have-been-quite-different Bayesian and Edmilson 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,431 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Thanks! As a fan of both Shore's LOTR and Williams' Philosopher's Stone, I think it's fascinating to hear that these scores almost happened with different composers. I'm glad JW and HS did them, but it'd be fascinating to hear what Horner could've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,054 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 I'm sure both scores would have had lots of danger motif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 I can't remember where exactly it came from, but I saw an interview with Richard Kraft where he revealed that Basil Poledouris was also in the competition, but he ultimately missed the opportunity because he took too long to decide bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 29/01/2022 at 2:11 PM, Edmilson said: I'm glad JW and HS did them, but it'd be fascinating to hear what Horner could've done. I think we have a pretty good idea actually. We've heard his Voldemort theme already. 😄 Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 29/01/2022 at 2:51 PM, Corellian2019 said: I can't remember where exactly it came from, but I saw an interview with Richard Kraft where he revealed that Basil Poledouris was also in the competition, but he ultimately missed the opportunity because he took too long to decide Found it! Starts at 13:22 of this documentary: I was slightly wrong; no specific reason was given for Poledouris ultimately not getting the job karelm and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 17 minutes ago, Corellian2019 said: Found it! Starts at 13:22 of this documentary: I was slightly wrong; no specific reason was given for Poledouris ultimately not getting the job It's hard to imagine the score any other way but Basil and Horner would have done fantastic jobs but in a very different style. Sort of like imagining John Williams scoring Ridley Scott's Alien (1979) which he was in a running for. The Goldsmith score is fantastic but I'm sure JW's would have been as well and probably nothing like what Goldsmith did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Watching Mask of Zorro for the first time in a long time. I used to think there wasn’t much music missing outside the ost. Granted all the BIG set pieces are on there. But there’s a good 20 or so minutes of unreleased cues that I’d love to have in an expansion in the near future. -When the Murieta Bros. Escape after robbing the payroll and are stopped by Captain Love. It continues into Don Rafael’s arrival in the prison at night. In film this is like a 5-6 minute cue. - Diego’s Escape from prison - Alejandro first wrangling of Tornado in the street when the horse is spooked. (Real fun swirling arabesque kinda writing here) and a good handful of connecting tissue cues. I’m sure there’s also some cues that were recorded and dropped from the film. Please release the Horner Zorro collection! 😄 Edmilson and LSH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I bet the first one will be released, definitely. It is a popular score and it was recorded in London so no re-use fees drama. Not sure about the second one, though, as it was released in 2005 and recorded in LA. Depending on when in 2005, I suppose... Karol WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 605 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 On 29/01/2022 at 5:47 AM, Edmilson said: I was reading the Wikipedia page for Fellowship of the Ring, and it mentions that James Horner turned down an offer to score this movie, as well as the first Harry Potter. The source for these claims is the obituary below, which just says that Horner refused to score the two movies but doesn't provide further explanation: https://www.avclub.com/r-i-p-james-horner-1798281000 So that means Howard Shore and John Williams weren't the first choices for their respective movies? Who else was considered before they got the Jobs? I can't seem to find any mention of a James Horner/Harry Potter connection elsewhere... that's interesting. We know Williams was asked to compose a piece of music for the teaser trailer (which of course became "Hedwig's Theme") and that was already released in March of 2001. So I suppose Horner would've passed before then, even? Seems unlikely to me, but I'd love to learn more about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Considering Columbus' two previous movies with Williams, it does seem unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,000 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 The one film Columbus directed just before HP was Bicentennial Man scored by Horner in 1999. So not as unlikely as you might think. Karol Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,431 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Horner collaborated with Columbus in Bicentennial Man, so the producers of HP may have thought about giving him the gig... But I don't think this went beyond the first conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Once 605 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Williams scored Stepmom in 1998 and was set to score Bicentennial Man in 1999 before a scheduling conflict with Angela's Ashes (according to Scott Bettencourt's six-part article Timelines: John Williams published on FSM website in 2007). So I doubt anyone was asked to score Harry Potter before Williams (again, he scored the teaser, so he was hired earlier than what is usual). I'm not saying it's impossible Horner was asked, I just don't believe it without some kind of source. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 They asked James Horner first but he said : You need a better composer. The rest is history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 8 hours ago, Once said: Williams scored Stepmom in 1998 and was set to score Bicentennial Man in 1999 before a scheduling conflict with Angela's Ashes (according to Scott Bettencourt's six-part article Timelines: John Williams published on FSM website in 2007). So I doubt anyone was asked to score Harry Potter before Williams (again, he scored the teaser, so he was hired earlier than what is usual). I'm not saying it's impossible Horner was asked, I just don't believe it without some kind of source. It was (at that time) not unusual for studios to send out inquiries to all A-list composers to be on the safe side for big tentpoles. Edmilson and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Yeah. When you read that an actor " turned down a role" It probably means they were asked if they.were interested in it. Not that they were offered a contract. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,346 Posted March 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2022 A look at Horner's studio hosted by Sara Horner TSMefford, Disco Stu, MikeH and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Hasn't a similar video been posted before? Maybe it was just photos. I definitely remember seeing the mountains of bric-a-brac he had around his studio before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Yes this has been seen before. It’s been a few years though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Crikey, was that his main writing studio?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,492 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 James Hoarder. But yes, I have an acquaintance who also visited the studio a while back and took some photos/videos, so it's been around for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,438 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I hadn't seen the video, thanks for sharing. It's fascinating to see how passionate he was at collecting these whimsical things, and it painted quite a picture when combined with the insights from his family. The mention that music may have been the only way for James to communicate his emotions was very touching. Listening to the composers whose music we love, I think we do get some kind of emotional sustenance from it, and feel like we know them on some deeper level. But we don't always get to hear what they're feeling while writing it, and we know that film scores are meant to manipulate our feelings by their very nature. I like the idea that writing the music could have been not only a job, but just as meaningful for him emotionally as it was for us on the receiving end. MikeH and blondheim 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 This unedited footage from the Back to Titanic sessions just popped up a few weeks ago: crocodile and karelm 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I don't mean to kick a hornet's nest but I've been listening to some Horner scores lately and while his music is enjoyable, I find it hard to hold him in particularly high regard as a composer when so many instances of his music is undisguised homages to classical composers and some of the most famous classical pieces of all time like O' Fortuna and Charging Fort Wagner in Glory. It's almost literally the same piece, but not and not credited as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,912 Posted March 16, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, artguy360 said: I don't mean to kick a hornet's nest but I've been listening to some Horner scores lately and while his music is enjoyable, I find it hard to hold him in particularly high regard as a composer when so many instances of his music is undisguised homages to classical composers and some of the most famous classical pieces of all time like O' Fortuna and Charging Fort Wagner in Glory. It's almost literally the same piece, but not and not credited as such. I'm not a Horner apologist. I argued a lot with classmates who listed him as their favorite. I was wrong. He was a FABULOUS composer and I deeply miss his contributions to film scores. I will also add I've heard the exact same sentiment to the performers of his classical scores. Yes, he could be derivative. So were some of the very best composers. Rachmaninoff used the Dies Irae motif frequently. It was a dramatic trope. Like how Mahler used the "fate motif" in his symphony No. 5 which was itself a call back to Beethoven. Horner admitted this was a trope. My bigger issue was that he scored so many films that he ended up repeating himself. Here again, we have classical examples of the same problem. What is your thought of Beethoven's Choral fantasty using the exact same theme of his Ode to Joy Symphony No. 9? MikeH, Ludwig and Edmilson 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,431 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I have no problem with Horner quoting classical composers, but I do find mildly annoying when he quotes himself in movies that couldn't be more different from each other. For example, the quotes of Braveheart's love theme on Bicentennial Man and Bobby Jones: Stroke of a Genius only serves to weaken the impact of its beautiful melody. Indianagirl and artguy360 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 You hear similarities between the different works of a composer and you find that he sometimes reuse or rework his best melodies? I call that having "style". MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,431 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I do agree that, although flawed (like every composer), I miss Horner and his scores, specially considering the utter mediocrity that has been plaguing Hollywood's scores lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Stravinsky based a whole ballet on a theme.by Pergelosi- PULCINELLA. IIRC GLORY originally temped with that damn Orff piece and Horner was instructed to copy it as close as possible. Horner objected. I think the film uses the Orff piece for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NL197 368 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Edmilson said: For example, the quotes of Braveheart's love theme on Bicentennial Man and Bobby Jones: Stroke of a Genius only serves to weaken the impact of its beautiful melody. I have always enjoyed when these reappear in new contexts. The theme you're referring to was also used in The Missing and was glorious in the end titles for it. The Braveheart love theme was not used in Bobby Jones. It was actually the "Freedom!" idea used in that film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 8/3/22 at 3:53 PM, Disco Stu said: Hasn't a similar video been posted before? yes, on vimeo, originailly. On 12/3/22 at 6:17 AM, MikeH said: This unedited footage from the Back to Titanic sessions just popped up a few weeks ago: this is great, thanks! Too bad there's no footage of the Titanic recording sessions… Oh and boy I'm so happy and sad at the same time thinking back to London 2015, where I could experience Titanic Live – with Sissel, and James… just 6 weeks before his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 On 16/3/2022 at 1:54 AM, karelm said: What is your thought of Beethoven's Choral fantasty using the exact same theme of his Ode to Joy Symphony No. 9? Sorry, what? No. It's not the same theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Has anybody here seen the live-to-picture Titanic concert? There's another one coming up in July and I'm deciding whether to go. https://www.royalalberthall.com/tickets/events/2022/titanic-live/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 Would if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 3 hours ago, LSH said: Has anybody here seen the live-to-picture Titanic concert? I did, the „original“ performance in 2015 with Sissel. Ludwig Wicki conducted then, too. It was really great. I would imagine it sounds different with another vocal soloist, of course… THey also performed the band music from the Third Class party live, which seemed very unnecessary and didn't work very well technically, either. But apart from that it was great. LSH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Henry Sítrónu said: I did, the „original“ performance in 2015 with Sissel. Ludwig Wicki conducted then, too. It was really great. I would imagine it sounds different with another vocal soloist, of course… THey also performed the band music from the Third Class party live, which seemed very unnecessary and didn't work very well technically, either. But apart from that it was great. Oh, how great. I'm tempted to give it a go. I have a friend in London who's also interested and it's only a quick train ride down. Good excuse for a night out anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 9 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said: Sorry, what? No. It's not the same theme. Oh come on. In the same key, they're virtually identical. The melody is known to be a proto-ode to joy. Beethoven.mp3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 A good example of musical parody is J.S. Bach's reuse of three cantata in his Christmas Oratorio. Everybody did it at some degrees. Leave James Horner alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 2,912 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 What is your thought about Mahler's Song of a Wayfarer... and his Symphony No. 1? 7 minutes ago, Bespin said: A good example of musical parody is J.S. Bach's reuse of three cantata in his Christmas Oratorio. Everybody did it at some degrees. Leave James Horner alone! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody_music Not just everybody...the very pinnacles...Beethoven, Mahler, Shostakovich, Vaughan Williams (Pilgrims Progress/Symphony No. 5, etc.) etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted March 18, 2022 Share Posted March 18, 2022 It's easy today with recordings and computers to find identical passages, themes or ideas in a composer corpus. Music existed before computers and CDs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc 767 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 That cue Once and Bayesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Marc said: That cue I knew it!!! No needs for trumpets at all. Horns can do it Very cool! Did you transcribe by ear or is the score in some way floating around? 😇 Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc 767 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Henry Sítrónu said: I knew it!!! No needs for trumpets at all. Horns can do it Very cool! Did you transcribe by ear or is the score in some way floating around? 😇 Thank you ! All done by ear Henry Sítrónu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jean-Baptiste Martin 254 Posted April 19, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2022 After the cancellation of the 2020 and 2021 concerts due to the pandemic, the James Horner Film Music Association is pleased to announce that the 2022 concert will take place! Its title: James Horner - The Emotionalist - The Concert It will take place in Szcecin, Poland (2 hours drive from Berlin) on May 13, 2022. On the program: James Horner’s most famous film music but especially the two concert pieces Spectral Shimmers and A Forest Passage which have not been performed since 1979 and 2000 respectively. A moving 20-minute tribute video divided into 3 parts will be shown between the music pieces. It was filmed in Calabasas at the composer’s home with his wife Sara and daughter Emily. Other surprises are also planned. All the information is available by following this link: http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/may-13th-2022-james-horner-the-emotionalist-the-concert/For those who can’t make it to the concert, a big surprise awaits you in the article. You are allowed to talk about the surprise in the following posts, it’s just that I wanted 1 or 2 people to go read our article. Jay, Smeltington, karelm and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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