"A Conspiracy Unmasked" or Analyzing the Fellowship of the Ring CR

[Incanus 5,714]

Wow. I've never heard that before.

Pays to listen to all the credits

Indeed.

But hey KK had still after all these years something new to discover from LotR. Ain't he lucky or what?

[KK 3,307]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And here I thought I heard every note I ever needed to hear from LotR...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You never saw the Fanclub Credits?

N00b!!!

[Kühni 485]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And here I thought I heard every note I ever needed to hear from LotR...

[Incanus 5,714]

One thing that wasn't released on the CRs or the Rarities was the original NZSO version of the Breaking of the Fellowship, which I thought was a shame but I think Doug mentioned years ago that it was part of the philosophy of not presenting material already released, even though it was just in the EE fan credits. It would have been a great way to round out the Rarities.

Agreed. However, the explanation doesn't make complete sense, because for RotK, they did put Bilbo's Song on it, and that was from the EE end credits. Or did they count the film version of 'Breaking' as "material already released" (in another alternate version on the OST)?

But yes, it's a huge shame. That version is incredibly stirring and serves as a perfectly self-contained 6-minute representation of Shore's entire work on the trilogy. Oh well, at least it's easy to rip in good quality from the DVD/Blu-Ray.

Oh and another piece that was already released and found its way on the RotK CR is Asëa Aranion, which of course was featured in the EE fan credits. So there seems to be have been very much the composer's preference that played part in what to include and what not. Which of course is not a surprise by any means.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And here I thought I heard every note I ever needed to hear from LotR...

SmartArt for the win!

[Faleel 5,348]

A goofy question to Jim or someone who knows something, is this some sort of performance flub or something in the left channel at 0:09 of this video?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9MnB6dmJVMHZVLXM/edit?usp=sharing

[Jim Ware 526]

A string break or a restless harpist?

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[crocodile 8,012]

My guess is Stefan is talking about the fact History of the Ring theme might have had a slightly smaller presence in the initial score as conceived. The prologue stuff was recorded quite late in the game and previous versions of that sequence didn't use it quite as heavily. It certainly doesn't appear to be prominent on the original album. Maybe they decided that it was going to be much more important much later?

Just a theory.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

More theories...

We don't need theories, we need facts!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

The original album is hardly a proper survey of the bigger picture of Shore's design (initial or final). I was listening to the FOTR OST the other day and it really did not do the score justice, often consisting of poorly selected representations of the score that don't come together for the whole "journey" vibe as the CR does.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The original album is hardly a proper survey of the bigger picture of Shore's design (initial or final). I was listening to the FOTR OST the other day and it really did not do the score justice, often consisting of poorly selected representations of the score that don't come together for the whole "journey" vibe as the CR does.

I disagree. It's the best of the OST. Mostly chronological, so it has a solid narrative flow, decent selection of material. If a bit heavy on the Nazgul choir.

The lack of the History Of The Ring theme on the OST could indeed suggest that theme was conceived late in the game. (It wasnt even used in the original version of the Argonath cue)

[Faleel 5,348]

Established in 1947, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra has become the country’s preeminent musical ensemble hosting,

over its years, such noteworthy guest musicians as Lang Lang, Hilary Hahn, Kiri Te Kanawa, Mstislav Rostropovich, Elisabeth

Schwarzkopf, Antal Dorati, Yehudi Menuhin, Vladimir Ashkenazy, William Walton and Igor Stravinsky. As is well known, the

Symphony performed on one of Fellowship’s most thrilling and dynamic sequences, however they also performed a rendition of the

film’s closing music at the same time. This sequence was reedited before the London recording sessions, so after Shore re-scored

his music, the LPO was asked to perform the new arrangement. The NZSO’s performance, however, can still be heard under the

Fan Club credits on the Fellowship Extended Edition DVD.

From the Annotated Score.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,348]

Also, part of the Parth Galen statement is on the OST as the ending of The Great River.

I would be more interested in a LOTR TE isolated score than a EE isolated score (though there is some unreleased music in the EE's too) some of the theatrical versions are superior in either terms of pace or performance.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[crocodile 8,012]

A live to projection performance, at your house, on demand!

Karol

[Faleel 5,348]

Unfortunately due to logistics and budget, instead of whole sections, you get just 1 player for each section

[crocodile 8,012]

They're doing their best, though!

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jim Ware 526]

Also, part of the Parth Galen statement is on the OST as the ending of The Great River.

I would be more interested in a LOTR TE isolated score than a EE isolated score (though there is some unreleased music in the EE's too) some of the theatrical versions are superior in either terms of pace or performance.

Is there that much TE material unreleased? The only big chunk missing is the theatrical Lothlorien.

They scored the Cannes Moria sequence but I believe that wasn't recorded for the Cannes preview. It was recorded for an early version of the breaking of the fellowship, but was later rerecorded when the scene was altered? (was the intention to record the score with the NZSO before they moved to London?)

If I remember correctly, the NZSO Breaking of the Fellowship was used at the end of the Cannes preview over a montage of footage from all three pictures, although without having seen the Cannes preview I cannot be sure.

Didn't know that had Nazgul score written for it, alas some of the dialing out decisions were actually great decisions!

Agreed.

The prologue stuff was recorded quite late in the game and previous versions of that sequence didn't use it quite as heavily. It certainly doesn't appear to be prominent on the original album. Maybe they decided that it was going to be much more important much later?

The Prologue went through numerous iterations without any use of the History of the Ring at all.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is there any evidence suggesting that the History Of The Ring theme was something Shore came up with comparatively late compared to most of the other thematic material?

It would explain a great many things.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No.

But seriously.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It would explain it's almost complete absence from the OST, and why it was tracked so much in the film.

[Jim Ware 526]

Almost every instance of the History of the Ring in FOTR was originally scored with something else.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh that Shore is such a talentless hack! He didn't even have the decency to come up with the coolest theme of these scores before that late in the game.

[Faleel 5,348]

Almost every instance of the History of the Ring in FOTR was originally scored with something else.

This basically confirms it? Did this something else tend to be underscore or different themes?

The A Conspiracy Unmasked scene = ???

a Footsteps of Doom End-Cap statement and some underscore from costume documentary

Also, part of the Parth Galen statement is on the OST as the ending of The Great River.

I would be more interested in a LOTR TE isolated score than a EE isolated score (though there is some unreleased music in the EE's too) some of the theatrical versions are superior in either terms of pace or performance.

Is there that much TE material unreleased? The only big chunk missing is the theatrical Lothlorien.

Well, nothing TOO substantial:

Prologue: One Ring To Rule Them All Theatrical - The brass note from at the end of the first (?) Cor Anglais statement of the HOTR theme was replaced with the insert for the Isildur scene, the ending transition is different than the EE version.

Frodo Under The Tree (The Shire/Bag End Theatrical)

Concerning Hobbits - The Fan Credits version is the film version, but its edited down.

Flaming Red Hair - Not a theatrical version, but the opening in the film seems to be different than on the CR

The Caverns of Isengard - The music for Bilbo going cold is different.

The Council of Elrond Assembles - The Pre-Gondor theme music for Boromir's speech was dialed out of the TE, but the music preceding it seems to be a different take than the EE version?

Doors of Durin Theatrical - Different orchestration, and some different material (some of it can be taken from the TTT game)

Lothlorien Theatrical (Mostly on the OST, you can supplement with the CR and DVD rip for a small section for Haldir's elves)

The Great River Theatrical - the OST has the Theatrical Version, but with a overlay of the Fellowship theme, the Fan Club Credits has it without the overlay.

Parth Galen Theatrical - The OST has an edited down version of the theatrical version, the TTT game has the unedited version.

[Jay 37,363]

I really want that theatrical Frodo under the tree music!!

[Faleel 5,348]

While it is no substitute, the first part of the AUJ track "Old Friends" is almost the same as the first portion of that music.

[Jay 37,363]

The end of the Rarities prologue track is similar as well

[Faleel 5,348]

Its the same theme, I wouldn't say its as similar as Old Friends though.

[Faleel 5,348]

Jim Ware, is the Isengard theme in The Pas of Caradhras intended to be there or is it tracked?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is there any evidence suggesting that the History Of The Ring theme was something Shore came up with comparatively late compared to most of the other thematic material?

It would explain a great many things.

Btw, this doesnt actually come from me. Former active MB member and current lurker Dani gave me the idea.

[Incanus 5,714]

Is there any evidence suggesting that the History Of The Ring theme was something Shore came up with comparatively late compared to most of the other thematic material?

It would explain a great many things.

Btw, this doesnt actually come from me. Former active MB member and current lurker Dani gave me the idea.

And it is a plausible one. Either that or sudden shift of focus to the Ring by PJ and the film makers. Actually this was also their focus for the whole FotR when cutting it, "Frodo carrying the Ring", which could explain the heavier emphasis on the History of the Ring theme in the end.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Aren't we full of hindsight today.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

"Ben....why didnt you tell me?"

[Arpy 4,145]

I think in the commentaries for the EE, Jackson and Boyens say that after many tries at rearranging some of the narrative to fit the prologue, the focus did shift to the Ring. Which is ultimately what Jackson wanted to begin with. The music must have reflected this.

[Jim Ware 526]

Jim Ware, is the Isengard theme in The Pas of Caradhras intended to be there or is it tracked?

Intended.

The end of the Rarities prologue track is similar as well

This bit is actually the same take as The Prophecy on the OST.

[Faleel 5,348]

Speaking of The Prophecy, is it edited down? or is it really a 4 minute composition?

Also, is the five beat pattern at the end of At the sign of the Prancing Pony part of the unused music for the Ringwraiths trashing the beds? or is it part of the unused music for the Orcs tearing the trees of Isengard down?

[Incanus 5,714]

Speaking of The Prophecy, is it edited down? or is it really a 4 minute composition?

Also, is the five beat pattern at the end of At the sign of the Prancing Pony part of the unused music for the Ringwraiths trashing the beds? or is it part of the unused music for the Orcs tearing the trees of Isengard down?

As Jim says above The Prophecy is just edited down version of the earlier Prologue draft and the Five Beat Pattern does indeed according to Doug come from the alternate and unused spoiling of Isengard scene and is just edited to the end of the OST version of the At the Sign of the Prancing Pony.

[Jim Ware 526]

Speaking of The Prophecy, is it edited down? or is it really a 4 minute composition?

Also, is the five beat pattern at the end of At the sign of the Prancing Pony part of the unused music for the Ringwraiths trashing the beds? or is it part of the unused music for the Orcs tearing the trees of Isengard down?

As Jim says above The Prophecy is just edited down version of the earlier Prologue draft

It's a standalone assembly of various components of the earlier Prologue.

The section at the end of Prancing Pony is part of the unused Isengard five-beat introduction (as heard in Out From Bree on the rarities), edited and missing the choral overlay.

[Kühni 485]

.