KK 3,307 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 BTW Smaugs "background/inverted" theme makes me think of this theme from Star Trek TOS:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X07UpKqVRQ(I know its not exactly the same!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Jason, the 'motif' you refer to is basically the third of the principle triad, alternating back and forth between the major and minor iterations of the chord's sonority. Its essentially the key note of what Incanus was the talking about. Sometimes it goes from major to minor (the note takes a step down) sometimes it goes from minor to major (note takes a step up). And its not necessarily always the F triad we hear. The key changes.Essentially this is supporting music for the Smaug material and his theme. But perhaps it can have a specific correlation to the 'treasure madness' as you say.In general I like how the Smaug's theme and its accompanying ideas basically take over the whole sonic landscape whenever he appears. Even though we might not hear either of the main ideas (or the main theme and the inverted variant) we always have the heaving breathing like alternating chords progression and now the nervous string motif providing him with malevolent presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Indeed. This is not unlike how the many Mordor accompaniment devices build a unique sonic soundscape for that land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 So, no-one ever replied to this: Back to Thorin's Pride, I guess we all agree it appears at: AUJ 1-01 My Dear Frodo 6:29-7:00 AUJ 1-01 My Dear Frodo 7:22-7:47 AUJ 1-13 A Troll-hoard 0:44-0:56 AUJ 1-13 A Troll-hoard 1:50-2:03 AUJ 1-13 A Troll-hoard 2:14-2:19 DOS 1-06 Flies and Spiders 8:37-8:56 DOS 1-07 The Woodland Realm 0:00-0:11 DOS 1-07 The Woodland Realm 2:21-2:43 Making these three really be Bilbo's Burglar Theme, right? AUJ 1-12 Roast Mutton 4:08-4:22 AUJ 2-08 Riddles In the Dark 3:48-4:00 AUJ 2-09 Brass Buttons 4:40-4:58 Or this: Also, I have 2:07-2:20 of "The Woodland Realm" marked down as the Mirkwood theme because, well, that's what it sounded like to me. But on my second viewing of the film, I realized that music plays when Thranduil is discussing the White Gems he wants to be paid by Thorin in order to set him free. So, am I wrong, and that's not the Mirkwood theme? Let's hear some thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Perhaps, that statement of Mirkwood, is because Mirkwood is where The Woodland Realm is, and its a hint at the dangerousness of Thranduil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Yes it definitely sounds like the Mirkwood Theme to me in the Woodland Realm and I would imagine that Faleel's analysis of the scene and purpose of the theme are quite close to the truth.And yes those timestamps for Thorin's Pride and possible Burglar Theme look just about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 The whole scene is scored oddly! The cue begins on this dialogue:"You have found a way in. You seek that which would bestow upon you the right to rule - the king's jewel, the Arkenstone, it is precious to you beyond measure. I understand that."And that dialogue is NOT underscored with the Arkenstone theme!!Then, comes this dialogue:"There are gems in the mountain that I too desire - white gems of pure starlight. I offer you my help."That's what's underscored with the Mirkwood theme! It's odd!Things make sense after that, as the following exchange is underscored with what we've been calling Thorin's Pride, which really seems to be more of a "Dwarf vs Elf" theme perhaps:"I am listening""I will let you go if you but return what is mine""A favor for a favor?""You have my word, one king to another""I would not trust Thranduil, the great king to honor his word should the end of all days be upon us!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 And that dialogue is NOT underscored with the Arkenstone theme!!..Your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 1, 2014 Author Share Posted January 1, 2014 That Shore scored the scene oddly... as I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 How is that odd?That he did not go the most obvious route and instead decided to focus on something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfa 0 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 did sb recognize the the theme at 1:14 in Flies and Spiders ? sounds familiar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The structure is quite similar Bilbo's Adventure. Maybe its a reference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 It's Bards Family theme Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 I know I owe some replies to some recent posts here, but I just saw this comment on Doug's blog: I noticed something interesting in Barrels Out of Bond. Between 0:50 and 1:05, a sequence is played that I think is used in the Fellowship of the Ring as well, when the company awaits the goblins in Balin's Tomb. Starting from 3:38 in Balin's Tomb (Complete Recordings), the motive is repeatedly played by a trumpet. I don't think this motive is used anywhere else, so I thought it was nice to hear it again on the DoS soundtrack. Will this motive get a name, or is it not important enough to be given a name? http://www.musicoflotr.com/2013/12/the-hobbit-production-video-14.html#comment-1181072675 Anybody else notice this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Now that you mention it, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I had noticed that, and I doubt there's meant to be a link there. Other parts of the score remind me of bits in the LOTR scores. The part from 4:36-4:52ish of 'Flies and Spiders' (extended), for me at least, is reminiscent of the music played when Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are leaving Fangorn in TTT (4:26-4:35 of 'Gandalf the White'). Also, 1:09-1:25ish of 'Barrels out of Bond' reminds me somewhat of the bit in 'The Breach of the Deeping Wall' heard at 0:35-0:51 (again from TTT). I'm not saying they're exactly the same, just that I was immediately reminded me of those bits in TTT score. The trumpet bit in 'Barrels out of Bond' is a bit more substantial though in terms of a direct match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yep probably just a similar little phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Since when is a recurring musical moment not important enough to be given a name by Doug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I had noticed that, and I doubt there's meant to be a link there. Other parts of the score remind me of bits in the LOTR scores. The part from 4:36-4:52ish of 'Flies and Spiders' (extended), for me at least, is reminiscent of the music played when Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are leaving Fangorn in TTT (4:26-4:35 of 'Gandalf the White').We discussed this rhythmic material before and I believe it is Hobbit accompaniment material (oh the horror I can't quite remember was it Skip-Beat or Two-Step or End Cap) as Doug's book says for that particular moment in Gandalf the White. In DoS Bilbo is freeing the dwarves from the spiderweb when it plays if I remember correctly so it is quite appropriate.I know I owe some replies to some recent posts here, but I just saw this comment on Doug's blog:I noticed something interesting in Barrels Out of Bond. Between 0:50 and 1:05, a sequence is played that I think is used in the Fellowship of the Ring as well, when the company awaits the goblins in Balin's Tomb. Starting from 3:38 in Balin's Tomb (Complete Recordings), the motive is repeatedly played by a trumpet.I don't think this motive is used anywhere else, so I thought it was nice to hear it again on the DoS soundtrack. Will this motive get a name, or is it not important enough to be given a name?http://www.musicoflotr.com/2013/12/the-hobbit-production-video-14.html#comment-1181072675Anybody else notice this?It is similar to the Drive of the Fellowship motif, which does repeat a couple of times in the LotR scores. Shore does use similar repeating ostinato figure elsewhere so it might just be a coincidence (if there are such things in these scores ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Oh that was pages and ages ago! Oh I remember those days, we were all so befuddled about the new themes. Ah the youth of this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Ah so you did, I must have missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 BB, I never make that claim on jwfan, nice going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 You made it during your private chat on Facebook, surely!BB should not refer to that stuff here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Good one Alvar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimJD 3 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The new opening theme for DOS has the same opening notes as the Erebor Theme, although in a different key and with very different harmony. Could it be some sort of hybrid Erebor/History of the Ring/Smaug theme?Is there some reference to this at approx 1:30 - 1:50 on Inside Information? If not then the moment that underscores Smaug's reference to the One Ring (which I think that section might underscore). It really struck me in the theatre on my second viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Interesting observation SimJD. I couldn't spot the House of Durin theme in the AUJ opening so I am sure Shore has some intriguing musical connection buried in the DoS titles as well. Your guess is a good one I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Straw-clutching suggestion of the day:When Gandalf first arrives at Bag End in The Fellowship of the Ring he wanders into Bilbo's room and sees the map of Wilderland lying on a table. As he approaches and looks at it, we hear a figure consisting of three phrases - the first two consist of three notes ascending stepwise and then a drop of one fourth; in the last one the three stepwise ascending notes are followed by one a fourth higher. It's as though the music can just about recollect Thorin's theme in its basic shape, without having a completely fresh and accurate memory of all the specifics.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IDZUeW-z8Vc#t=89Now that's foreshadowing for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yea, I said that over a year ago, that that bit in FOTR is a variant of Thorin's theme - or rather, Shore took that melody and invented Thorin's theme out of it.However, Mr. John Takis told me there is no connection to Thorin's theme there, so what do I know.I do know there is a melody that plays I think three times in "Old Friends" in AUJ that is close to that theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yea, I said that over a year ago(Actually, so did I. http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=531141;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;)I'll have to listen to "Old Friends" again to spot the other melody you mention. I don't think I know this John Takis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yea sorry, I don't have the timestamps handy right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 No worries - the real problem is that it takes me about half an hour to wrench the CD from its casing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It's not close, it's the same.And bears little resemblance to Thorin's theme.The DoS prologue I think consists of Bard's theme, with the end cap of House of Durin afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 I believe it plays when Gandalf makes the mark on Bilbo's doorIt's a shame the cool choral bit from the FOTR cue isn't in AUJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I believe it plays when Gandalf makes the mark on Bilbo's doorOh yeah, I remember that now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 That little bit in FotR has no relationship to Thorin's theme. The motif does reappear on strings as a sort of nostalgic callback to LotR. Other than that, I wouldn't assign too much significance to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,218 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 No intentional relationship, I readily agree. It does have a quite concrete relationship, in shape, to the primary phrase of the Thorin theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimJD 3 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The DoS prologue I think consists of Bard's theme, with the end cap of House of Durin afterwards.The new opening theme for DOS has the same opening notes as the Erebor Theme, although in a different key and with very different harmony. Could it be some sort of hybrid Erebor/History of the Ring/Smaug theme?The opening theme for DOS sounds like a variation on Bard's theme to me (I think that was also suggested by gkgyver, if I remember correctly), followed by a brief hint of the Mirkwood (or Smaug's) theme.Will listen again with Bard's theme in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I believe it plays when Gandalf makes the mark on Bilbo's door Oh yeah, I remember that now.It plays when Frodo picks up the orc helmet in Bilbo's study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 A thrush told me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 A thrush told you that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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