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The Desolation of Smaug SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

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Hiya gang.

Just like last year, with the The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey FILM Discussion Thread, we are creating this thread so people who have seen the film can discuss it (or people who are reading spoilers can discuss them openly), which leaves the existing The Hobbit Film Trilogy Thread clean for those wishing to avoid spoilers until they've seen the film.

So, spoiler-filled discussion of the film here, anticipation of the film including new commercials, trailers, posters, promos, ticket purchasing, etc talk there.

Enjoy!

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Yes it is although it's broken up so it doesn't play continuously from start to finish. I don't know whether bits were dialed out or if the track was just separated out but there were parts of it with no music.

The "Minus Morgul" bit seemed to play during the Necromancer transformation rather than the orcs marching to war.


Nice, glad you enjoyed it! Come on Friday!

No Nolan trailer. The only one the played was The LEGO movie trailer but that will obviously be a better film.

I'm looking forward to seeing it again on Friday and just sitting back. The film moves a long very quickly.

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So how is the sound mix. Can you actually hear the music? Or is it buried under the sound effects?

The sound at my screening could have been better. I was more aware of the music because obviously I was trying to pay attention to it. In the barrel scene I'd have liked it to be a little higher. I guess it's comparable to AUJ. I always want the music to be louder though.

As for the Spider scene, Bilbo cuts the Dwarves loose and then Tauriel and Leggy show up and defeat the last of the spiders. It doesn't take away from Bilbo at all as he did a great job of helping the Dwarves until they were captured by the Elves.

Bilbo has a much more important role in the company now. He's kind of the lookout and tends to spot things first. He finds the doorway and then figures out how to open it.

He's also very protective of the ring. He nearly loses it in the forest kills a spider, picks it up and says "mine". That when we hear that solo violin play the "History of the Ring theme".

Most of the chapter names in the book get mentioned at some point or another in dialogue. "Queer Lodgings" is the only one that definitely didn't get a mention.

When Smaug starts talking about the ring he says something about "you have something else, something made of gold but different, more precious" but after that he doesn't really mention it again and is surprised when Bilbo uses it to become invisible.

The trippy forest effect is good too, it could have been terrible but they made it work. The colours aren't crazy either.

As for colour grading it looks a lot closer to LOTR than AUJ. It's a much darker film in colour.

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Great report Bilbo Skywalker! I am really looking forward to seeing the film, perhaps on Friday if I have the time! :)

And seems that the music was treated much better than last year. :)

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Hmm, at that point I was so transfixed by what was happening on the screen to remember specific details. IIRC The Courage of Hobbits underscores Bilbo's talk with Balin and going down into the mountain to look for the Arkenstone. He picks up a goblet and this causes a mini avalanche that reveals part of Smaug and the dragon begins to wake, Inside Information starts and it basically covers Smaug's reveal and his conversation with Bilbo.

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The "Minas Morgul" bit seemed to play during the Necromancer transformation rather than the orcs marching to war.

That was my second guess for what that music was going underscore in the film.

I remember a reviewer saying that the end third was hectic and had a lot of intercutting. I can hear that in the music as well as there are quite a bit of very quick shifts of themes and moods for the change of scene and characters. Shore keeps it together admirably most of the time but there are a few moments where you think "I could have listened to that theme develop a bit more here".

Oh btw is it moon or sunlight that reveals the secret door on Erebor in the film?

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The "Minas Morgul" bit seemed to play during the Necromancer transformation rather than the orcs marching to war.

That was my second guess for what that music was going underscore in the film.

I remember a reviewer saying that the end third was hectic and had a lot of intercutting. I can hear that in the music as well as there are quite a bit of very quick shifts of themes and moods for the change of scene and characters. Shore keeps it together admirably most of the time but there are a few moments where you think "I could have listened to that theme develop a bit more here".

Oh btw is it moon or sunlight that reveals the secret door on Erebor in the film?

There are a lot of fast cuts in the final third while Laketown is being attacked and the Dwarves are fighting the dragon. I thought the pace was fine and added to the tension.

It is moonlight which reveals the keyhole, The thrush knock on it again.

Bilbo sees Smaug's "wound".

Thorin's theme during "Forest River" is the one thing that stands out that I can't say with any certainty was present. It may have been dialed out or I may have missed it being caught up in the visuals.

Is there a second version of the Durin theme being hummed on the albums because where it is on the album doesn't fit with where it is on the standard album. It doesn't seem as if the scenes were chopped and changed though so maybe it was placed where it was on the album for some other reason?

There was a nice version of Gandalf's theme in Dol Guldur which is unreleased I think.

This is all a bit over the place but I'm just typing stuff down as I remember it.

For all the complaints about splitting up the Dwarves it actually works. When the third film begins Smaug will be attacking Esgaroth and Thorin will have to cope with the fact that he wouldn't let Kili come with him. He made him stay in Lake-town and now he's injured. We care more about Lake-town now because Bar, his family, Tauriel and the Dwarves are there. Legolas took off after Bolg. Kili was made stay behind because of his wound and Fili wouldn't leave him (Thorin wasn't happy about that), Oin stayed behind because he's the healer and Bofur got left behind because he was drunk and overspelpt.

Your casual viewer wouldn't miss Thrain and I saw no scenes were I though Thrain must have been present. It seems wise to leave it him out of TE because we know Gandalf got the map and key off him and we know he went missing. Adding him in would have slowed things down unnecessarily.

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It is moonlight which reveals the keyhole, The thrush knock on it again.

I am a bit miffed they changed this detail from sun to moon in the film. I guess they didn't trust the audience to make the connection and enforced it with a reminder of the moon runes sequence in AUJ. Even the music does this (wonderfully I might add based on the On the Doorstep from the album).

There was a nice version of Gandalf's theme in Dol Guldur which is unreleased I think.

Darnation! I want more renditions of Gandalf's theme(s)! Preferably on CD!

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Is there a second version of the Durin theme being hummed on the albums because where it is on the album doesn't fit with where it is on the standard album. It doesn't seem as if the scenes were chopped and changed though so maybe it was placed where it was on the album for some other reason?

The DOS soundtrack is NOT in chronological order. The beginning is, but in between "Bard, A Man Of Lake-town" and "My Armor Is Iron", they shuffled the order of music around in a bunch of places for a better listening experience.

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It is moonlight which reveals the keyhole, The thrush knock on it again.

I am a bit miffed they changed this detail from sun to moon in the film. I guess they didn't trust the audience to make the connection and enforced it with a reminder of the moon runes sequence in AUJ. Even the music does this (wonderfully I might add based on the On the Doorstep from the album).

When the sun goes down Thorin gives up but Bilbo hangs around to try and figure it out. He thinks it's pointless to give up after coming all the way to the mountain and eventually he works it out. I like that they gave Bilbo another moment like that.

Is there a second version of the Durin theme being hummed on the albums because where it is on the album doesn't fit with where it is on the standard album. It doesn't seem as if the scenes were chopped and changed though so maybe it was placed where it was on the album for some other reason?

The DOS soundtrack is NOT in chronological order. The beginning is, but in between "Bard, A Man Of Lake-town" and "My Armor Is Iron", they shuffled the order of music around in a bunch of places for a better listening experience.

Ah excellent, having seen the movie this makes sense but can I ask how you know? Was it revealed somewhere and I missed it?

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Did you hear the percussion variation of Smaug's theme? Heard in 'The Hunters'? I could not, but I heard the "build-up" to it (1.01 -1.10, right before it starts). I'm curious if I missed it or if it wasn't in the film.

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Bilbo or Lewya (or anybody else who's seen it!) - the word is that Sauron manifests himself in eye form when confronting Gandalf in Dol Guldur. How is this represented? I can only imagine a flaming eyeball hovering there in mid-air, which just seems silly.

We get to see large amount of shadows floating around in the air when he "confronts" or when Gandalf steps into "him". He then uses his staff to create a protective light shield (reminds me of the dementor shield spell, Expecto Patronum seen in Harry Potter), which prevent the shadows to get closer to him. It looked very exhausting for Gandalf, and he could barely keep the shadows away. Then after Gandalf has kept the shadows away from him and used his spell for a while, we get to see an enguled fiery figure in the shadows, and you can see that the figure has the shape of Sauron. Then Gandalf says "Sauron" after it cuts back to him, then Gandalf gets "pushed up" against the wall by the shadowy power - then it cuts to the mountain, and Bilbo & co.

Maybe Bilbo can elaborate on this, I find it quite hard to explain. The eye is seen briefly when he shows himself as an fiery figure as Sauron. No, it is no howering eye ball. We get to see the necromancer first in the movie when he speaks with Azog (I can't remember what he said), but this is when Azog sends away Bolg, and a group of orcs to find the dwarfes in Lake-town. When the necromancer speaks to Azog, all we see is a large shadow on the wall of the ruins of Dol Guldur.

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The double feature just ended, and so did one of my most frustrating cinematic experience ever. More thoughts when I'm home.

Did you hear Smaug on percussion as heard in 'The Hunters'? I wanna know if i'm deaf or not ;)

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Watched the film. It was rather good but not really coming even close to any of the Lord of the Rings films. It is a tad better than the first Hobbit film though.

The music was largely pretty disappointing in the film. Only the Erebor/Durin theme really stood out and made for some impressive moments. Otherwise it was mixed much too low and hacked into pieces like during the forest river scenes, in Dol Guldur or in many of the Smaug scenes. Doesn't help that the quality of the thematic material is so average compared to LotR. All the laketown and mirkwood music is so much worse than what i hoped for. The best tracks like Forest River with the Elvish material is mixed quite low or replaced with silence in parts of the scene. Only the Dwarven material is really noteworthy and good.

There were quite many logic flaws which bugged me a lot. The orks attack laketown at the end of the movie and during the whole fight scene till Legolas rides away NOT ONE of the Laketown guards or inhabitants even appears. There are loud screams etc but during the whole scene Laketown is a ghost town. I mean WTF Peter Jackson.... what a ruined scene.

There are big flaws in cinematography. The geography especially in the early part of the movie makes no sense with what you saw at the end of AUJ. The landscapes from scene to scene didn't match at all till Beorns house.

Smaug is amazing. It is the best CGI creature and the best Dragon i have ever seen. The Erebor scenes are fantastic, the location is realized very well. The fight between the Dwarves and Smaug is sadly too over the top and in parts also logically flawed and unrealistic.

The Duel of Gandalf with Sauron was amazing and epic. Tauriel had some of the best scenes in the movie. Her scene with Kili in the Elvish arrest cell was great (where Feast of Starlight plays)

The end credit song starts as soon as the film ends (without any orchestral lead in) and is horrible...

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OK, I'm home now, time for some musings.

First things first, if you thought my frustration had something to do with the movie quality, then no, that wasn't it, it was the theatre, which apparently got delivered a faulty hard drive from Warner. The films were supposed to be in 3D, but as soon as AUJ started, everyone knew there was something terribly wrong. The 3D effect of the film was faulty in some way, it almost appeared as if the objects that are supposed to jump out were put in the background and vice versa. 5 minutes into the film, the audience couldn't take it anymore, it was almost psychedelic, so the projection guy apologised, saying he doesn't know what's wrong, that he will check the apparatus and restart the movie.

Long story short, 40 minutes, three restarts, an apology of the manager, and people getting free soda and snacks later, it was decided the hard drive was broken and the film would be screened in 2D. But that wasn't the end of it, nooooo!

Thanks to the shitty hard drive, the film had DOZENS of sudden, and LOUD, audio artefacts. And not only that, the screen would go completely black for a few seconds every 20 minutes or so, with no audio as well, before resuming the film. Just before the traveling montage after Rivendell, it went out for a whole minute, leaving us thinking the hard drive had finally been shot to hell.

In addition to technical problems, those morons also didn't turn the sound on after the intermission, so that a part of Rivendell was a glorious silent movie.

Ok, so now, with the movie having started at around 8.15, the credits rolled just 5 minutes before midnight.

Then the manager came out, assuring us that the hard drive of DoS was fine, it was just tested in another room. Then I sit down after a much needed wee wee pause, anticipating DoS, when it finally started. With REAL 3D, and OK SOUND (there was actual applause for that). But then, for some inexplicable reason, the curtain was pulled in. Not completely, but far enough to ruin the film. So, the prologue was pretty much missed until the curtain was pulled back again, and for the first time in over 4 hours, I could actually sit back and enjoy a movie how it was intended to be seen,

And what I saw was initially dissapointing. Bilbo, Gandalf and company standing around a set that looks even faker than the one they're using in AUJ's Throatcutters scene, and Azog being given screentime almost immediately. IMO, that prologue doesn't feel well-rounded at all, and is easily (!) the worst of all five films.

Then Beorn. The way he is introduced and spotted by Bilbo is oddly treated. Like a byproduct. I find the editing very hectic and unfocused until they reach Beorn's house, and had to remind myself that many call this film better paced than AUJ. However, once we get to Beorn, things improve drastically.

Now, a general comment and observation, about the treatment of source material. And to get this out of the way, the "thing" between Tauriel and Kili is pulled off better than anyone had any right to expect, including myself. If you don't know the book, the different elements of the film won't pose much problems. In fact, they may even seem mighty fine. If you know just the book, you will scratch your head a few times. If you know Tolkien in general, there is probably nothing that can prepare you for this. And if you're a purist, or close, DoS will most likely give you an epileptic fit of grand mal proportions.

Back to Beorn. Persbrandt is a great Beorn, and from all the performances in the film, I think I enjoy his the most, even though he is just there for a few minutes. I can't cover the entire movie now, just some things that stuck out to me, in no order: the path Gandalf must take to the High Fells and the tombs is hilariously ridiculous. I'm not even sure why Radagast is in the film. He serves no purpose in the High Fells other than giving Gandalf a person to share dialogue revelations with, and once the two reach Dol Guldur, Gandalf sends him away, and makes pretty clear Radagast isn't to come back. Alfrid is utterly useless. So is Legolas. Sorry to say, but even though out of the two characters, Legolas is the one who has an actual justification to be there, being Thranduil's son, Tauriel is the one who adds to the film. Legolas is pretty much just moping and busy being an ass towards dwarves. Speaking of that, I can't believe it's actually shown that Gloin carries pictures of his wife and Gimli with him.

The finale with Smaug ... well, I don't know. No, wait, I actually do know. What PJ pulls off here is, in the truest meaning of the word, dwarfing anything you have ever seen in terms of Peter Jackson gigantomania. If I wasn't a fan of the series, I had to say it's fucking ridiculous.

Now, the - naturally - most important thing, the music. To get it out of my system right away, Sheeran's song is plain terrible for this film. End of story.

The pressing question is: is there tracking in the film? Is there tracking from previous movies? No. Is there tracking within the film? Possibly, but if there is, I didn't notice. Are there many alternates? I would have to say no (not knowing what was recorded). The most notable one would be I think the expanded High Fells music from the film. Then, are there omissions? By god, yes. Does it hurt the film? Particulary in Mirkwood, yes. I didn't stop the time on it, but from what I've heard, from the almost 10 minute Spiders track are a good 4-5 minutes missing. It's not just that there is no music in prolonged sequences, I had the feeling I was watching a film without music. If you know what I mean. Like someone forgot to put in what should obviously be there. There are 30 seconds of music, then it stops, then a short portion of music again, then again silence. This stop-and-go usage of the music in a long, fluid sequence messes up the pace badly. The same goes for the River chase, sadly. I don't know who edited the music this way, but he can't have a good sense of pacing.

This holds true for quite a few moments. I find it for example exceedingly odd that not much of Gandalf's venture in Dol Guldur was scored. There are shorter, intense outbursts of music, embedded in an ocean of musical silence. There is not much sense of fluidity, let alone setpieces.

AND: the album is edited together, it's not 100% chronological!

If I may speculate a bit ... I think Shore wrote the music to a certain cut of the picture, which was recorded in September. Then Pope went back for a few pickups. And that was it. And I think, since Jackson never ever, not in a million years, finishes his edit in October, they simply took the music that was written for a different cut, cut it up and placed it how they pleased. No wonder Shore and Pope had some things to talk about at the premiere.

Make of it what you want, but to me, the score in the film sounds like there were very little, if any, pickup or refining sessions done. Certainly not up until December.

To be fair, in terms of originality, it's better than AUJ. In terms of fluid musical experience, AUJ is ahead of this one (excluding the tracking). I certainly can't blame someone if he finds the score dissapointing, based on the moviegoing experience.

As it was with AUJ, the album is a more satisfying experience. Also because Jackson deemed it fitting to, again, omit Shore's closing music before the end credits, meaning the last 30 seconds of "My Armour Is Iron".

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So the string introduction music for the High Fells that was first used in The Edge Of The Wild was dropped?

Shame about Radagast and Beorn

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So the string introduction music for the High Fells that was first used in The Edge Of The Wild was dropped?

Shame about Radagast and Beorn

Dropped? Nothing was dropped from the High Fells, it plays out like on album, just expanded in the middle portion with Necromancer variations. If you mean that there is no musical lead-in for the scene like in Edge Of The Wild, then no, there isn't. It cuts to Gandalf walking around a mountain area, and two seconds in, "The High Fells" starts out of silence.

There were a few things dropped however from "Beorn's House", like the boy chorus.

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Just saw it. The parts with the dragon are great (animation and Cumberbatch) and compensate for the rather shallow 2 hours of vacuous and breathless spectacle preceding them. Cliffhanger is a piece of shit (Smaug's, not the Stallone movie).

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OK, I'm home now, time for some musings.

First things first, if you thought my frustration had something to do with the movie quality, then no, that wasn't it, it was the theatre, which apparently got delivered a faulty hard drive from Warner. The films were supposed to be in 3D, but as soon as AUJ started, everyone knew there was something terribly wrong. The 3D effect of the film was faulty in some way, it almost appeared as if the objects that are supposed to jump out were put in the background and vice versa. 5 minutes into the film, the audience couldn't take it anymore, it was almost psychedelic, so the projection guy apologised, saying he doesn't know what's wrong, that he will check the apparatus and restart the movie.

Long story short, 40 minutes, three restarts, an apology of the manager, and people getting free soda and snacks later, it was decided the hard drive was broken and the film would be screened in 2D. But that wasn't the end of it, nooooo!

Thanks to the shitty hard drive, the film had DOZENS of sudden, and LOUD, audio artefacts. And not only that, the screen would go completely black for a few seconds every 20 minutes or so, with no audio as well, before resuming the film. Just before the traveling montage after Rivendell, it went out for a whole minute, leaving us thinking the hard drive had finally been shot to hell.

In addition to technical problems, those morons also didn't turn the sound on after the intermission, so that a part of Rivendell was a glorious silent movie.

Ok, so now, with the movie having started at around 8.15, the credits rolled just 5 minutes before midnight.

Then the manager came out, assuring us that the hard drive of DoS was fine, it was just tested in another room. Then I sit down after a much needed wee wee pause, anticipating DoS, when it finally started. With REAL 3D, and OK SOUND (there was actual applause for that). But then, for some inexplicable reason, the curtain was pulled in. Not completely, but far enough to ruin the film. So, the prologue was pretty much missed until the curtain was pulled back again, and for the first time in over 4 hours, I could actually sit back and enjoy a movie how it was intended to be seen,

And what I saw was initially dissapointing. Bilbo, Gandalf and company standing around a set that looks even faker than the one they're using in AUJ's Throatcutters scene, and Azog being given screentime almost immediately. IMO, that prologue doesn't feel well-rounded at all, and is easily (!) the worst of all five films.

Then Beorn. The way he is introduced and spotted by Bilbo is oddly treated. Like a byproduct. I find the editing very hectic and unfocused until they reach Beorn's house, and had to remind myself that many call this film better paced than AUJ. However, once we get to Beorn, things improve drastically.

Now, a general comment and observation, about the treatment of source material. And to get this out of the way, the "thing" between Tauriel and Kili is pulled off better than anyone had any right to expect, including myself. If you don't know the book, the different elements of the film won't pose much problems. In fact, they may even seem mighty fine. If you know just the book, you will scratch your head a few times. If you know Tolkien in general, there is probably nothing that can prepare you for this. And if you're a purist, or close, DoS will most likely give you an epileptic fit of grand mal proportions.

Back to Beorn. Persbrandt is a great Beorn, and from all the performances in the film, I think I enjoy his the most, even though he is just there for a few minutes. I can't cover the entire movie now, just some things that stuck out to me, in no order: the path Gandalf must take to the High Fells and the tombs is hilariously ridiculous. I'm not even sure why Radagast is in the film. He serves no purpose in the High Fells other than giving Gandalf a person to share dialogue revelations with, and once the two reach Dol Guldur, Gandalf sends him away, and makes pretty clear Radagast isn't to come back. Alfrid is utterly useless. So is Legolas. Sorry to say, but even though out of the two characters, Legolas is the one who has an actual justification to be there, being Thranduil's son, Tauriel is the one who adds to the film. Legolas is pretty much just moping and busy being an ass towards dwarves. Speaking of that, I can't believe it's actually shown that Gloin carries pictures of his wife and Gimli with him.

The finale with Smaug ... well, I don't know. No, wait, I actually do know. What PJ pulls off here is, in the truest meaning of the word, dwarfing anything you have ever seen in terms of Peter Jackson gigantomania. If I wasn't a fan of the series, I had to say it's fucking ridiculous.

Now, the - naturally - most important thing, the music. To get it out of my system right away, Sheeran's song is plain terrible for this film. End of story.

The pressing question is: is there tracking in the film? Is there tracking from previous movies? No. Is there tracking within the film? Possibly, but if there is, I didn't notice. Are there many alternates? I would have to say no (not knowing what was recorded). The most notable one would be I think the expanded High Fells music from the film. Then, are there omissions? By god, yes. Does it hurt the film? Particulary in Mirkwood, yes. I didn't stop the time on it, but from what I've heard, from the almost 10 minute Spiders track are a good 4-5 minutes missing. It's not just that there is no music in prolonged sequences, I had the feeling I was watching a film without music. If you know what I mean. Like someone forgot to put in what should obviously be there. There are 30 seconds of music, then it stops, then a short portion of music again, then again silence. This stop-and-go usage of the music in a long, fluid sequence messes up the pace badly. The same goes for the River chase, sadly. I don't know who edited the music this way, but he can't have a good sense of pacing.

This holds true for quite a few moments. I find it for example exceedingly odd that not much of Gandalf's venture in Dol Guldur was scored. There are shorter, intense outbursts of music, embedded in an ocean of musical silence. There is not much sense of fluidity, let alone setpieces.

AND: the album is edited together, it's not 100% chronological!

If I may speculate a bit ... I think Shore wrote the music to a certain cut of the picture, which was recorded in September. Then Pope went back for a few pickups. And that was it. And I think, since Jackson never ever, not in a million years, finishes his edit in October, they simply took the music that was written for a different cut, cut it up and placed it how they pleased. No wonder Shore and Pope had some things to talk about at the premiere.

Make of it what you want, but to me, the score in the film sounds like there were very little, if any, pickup or refining sessions done. Certainly not up until December.

To be fair, in terms of originality, it's better than AUJ. In terms of fluid musical experience, AUJ is ahead of this one (excluding the tracking). I certainly can't blame someone if he finds the score dissapointing, based on the moviegoing experience.

As it was with AUJ, the album is a more satisfying experience. Also because Jackson deemed it fitting to, again, omit Shore's closing music before the end credits, meaning the last 30 seconds of "My Armour Is Iron".

I definitely noticed long parts without music but I thought the same when I first saw AUJ. It seemed most of the film was silent until I saw it again. So I'll see if it seems better on Friday.

Did you hear Thorin's theme in The Forest River?

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The thought of long parts without music worries me. I found some parts of An Unexpected Journey to be jarringly unscored. Perhaps the most glaring example is the aerial shot with the sound of Wargs howling just before Radagast's attempt at a diversion begins; I always feel that some urgent and atmospheric music is need there to counteract the (already pretty severe) mundanity of the scene. The music begins a few seconds later, but, to my mind, the damage is already done. And that's just a short part without music.

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Gkguyver, the problem had nothing to do with the hard drive. The 3D settings on the projector had somehow gotten inverted, and nobody at the theatre knew how to fix it. That probably means that they had technicians on-site at some point recently, and the techs screwed things up. It's happened at my theatre twice. Easy to fix (it's literally just unchecking a box), but impossible if you don't know how.

I thought the movie was pretty great. Seen it twice already.

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Gkguyver, the problem had nothing to do with the hard drive. The 3D settings on the projector had somehow gotten inverted, and nobody at the theatre knew how to fix it. That probably means that they had technicians on-site at some point recently, and the techs screwed things up. It's happened at my theatre twice. Easy to fix (it's literally just unchecking a box), but impossible if you don't know how.

I thought the movie was pretty great. Seen it twice already.

It's a pity that most 3D-glasses can only be worn one way round...

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Two questions regarding the score:

1) Are all the variations of 'The Line of Durin' theme in? I think one of you said the 'humming' version as heard in 'Girion, Lord of Dale' played during the part with the dead Dwarves, while another has said that the version from 'The Hunters' played there.

2) Gkgyver - do you think the missing music in some parts (I'm thinking Beorn and Mirkwood) might be due to a lot of material being cut in those sections?

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Two questions regarding the score:

1) Are all the variations of 'The Line of Durin' theme in? I think one of you said the 'humming' version as heard in 'Girion, Lord of Dale' played during the part with the dead Dwarves, while another has said that the version from 'The Hunters' played there.

2) Gkgyver - do you think the missing music in some parts (I'm thinking Beorn and Mirkwood) might be due to a lot of material being cut in those sections?

1) I thought it was the hummed version but I could be wrong.

2) It is possible that they again scored the extended edition at the same time and this would explain some of the missing music (see The White Council) from last year.

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