The Desolation of Smaug SPOILERS ALLOWED Discussion Thread

[Bilbo 3,709]

In other news, the sun appeared in the sky again today.

I felt it rose in the sky too quickly and then took ages about going down again.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Lol.

But really BB, I'm sorry to hear you didn't dig it.

[Jay 37,352]

Can't disagree with almost everything you say BB, you point out some good flaws. The film is a mess.

I think it's the post production process that's hurting these films. Give a fan access to all the dailies and I am positive you could craft two great films out of what was shot with no stupid stuff in there.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Give a fan access to all the dailies and I am positive you could craft two great films out of what was shot with no stupid stuff in there.

Bullshit!

Fanboys usually don't know a good film if it swam up and bit them in the ass.

[Incanus 5,714]

Oops, my trip to the cinema has fallen through. Hopes dashed again!

Oh come on! Go and see it and bring some holiday season cheer to this thread with your review!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bla bla bla...kids....bla bla bla...priorities...bla bla bla.

Fuckin' slackers!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The whole Azog's wrath against the line of Durin was sidelined in Smaug. Bolg is pretty much the same character, but without the barely contained menace of Azog.

I still maintain TABA must contain an epic fight between Azog and Thorin.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm guessing quite late in production PJ wanted to put more danger and emphasis on the Dol Guldur stuff.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

He could have used the Nazgûl for that.

Indeed. And thus his useless hike to High Fells would have lead to something! As it stands it is such an awful detour all the way back to Rhudaur from the Vale of Anduin and then back again. But I guess Radagast's Bunnies of Doom Express is much more formidable than I think.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yeah. We saw the Witchking already. Perhaps he didnt want to show both the Nazgul and Sauron.

I dont mind Sauron's reveal, but the whole thing could have been done with a bit more subtlety.

[Incanus 5,714]

Yeah. We saw the Witchking already. Perhaps he didnt want to show both the Nazgul and Sauron.

I dont mind Sauron's reveal, but the whole thing could have been done with a bit more subtlety.

Nonesense! Sauron knows no subtlety! He has lain 1000 years dormant and hidden. Let him have his reveal power trip!

I liked the duel although I wish Gandalf had struck back in some way before Gorthaur wiped the floor and walls with him. His white glowing sphere of goodness was a bit of a passive defense.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

This has been bothering me. Did anyone officially say that was the Witch-King? Because the crown matches the dude standing next to him at Weathertop rather than he himself.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Remember at this point Sauron is not supposed to be all powerful yet. Thats why he remained hidden.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Remember at this point Sauron is not supposed to be all powerful yet. Thats why he remained hidden.

Yes I know. Tolkien describes Gandalf's second visit to Dol Guldur in somewhat vague terms so PJ had a lot of freedom with this. But it would have been out of character for Sauron to start doing his "all powerful Dark Lord" routine when Gandalf came to call and reveal himself like he does in the film.

I think a more subtle way of revealing Sauron's presense would have been better, along with Gandalf's clever nick of time escape and reporting back to the White Council of his findings. Now they will probably send the council to rescue poor Gandy from the iron cage.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Nope. So does anyone know?

Apologies if it's not as riveting as the minutiae of Azog's design.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,714]

Nope. So does anyone know?

Apologies if it's not as riveting as the minutiae of Azog's design.

Well I don't think it is the Witch-King but some other Ringwraith. The wraith clearly doesn't have the iron crown in AUJ. But it really doesn't matter. Only the knife matters. But who knows with PJ and the animators for this film. Perhaps that crown in the film looked cooler to PJ now than the tall one from FotR. Maybe the wraiths exchange their ghostly crowns for variety with some kind of rotation programme bi weekly or something.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Gandalf won't end up fighting the Witch-King anyway but he will be there as it is his Morgul Blade. I suspect they're leaving the Ringwraiths for the next film. When the White Council shows up it'll be another stronger card for Sauron to play.

[mrbellamy 6,278]

I think it's the post production process that's hurting these films.

Sadly, I think that's probably true of many films. I imagine good, very good, or even great scripts and dailies are turned into hacky movies more often than we might think.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Perhaps that crown in the film looked cooler to PJ now than the tall one from FotR.

This.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

After attending two different 48fps screenings yesterday and having profoundly different reactions to each of them, I'm wondering if the mixed responses to the format which people have been reporting this year and last are purely down to the nature of HFR or whether they are partly caused by differences among theatres' equipment and/or their settings.

Don't think that's the case really. My friends and I watched both at the same theatre, and both times I liked the HFR and they didn't.

Yeah, there have certainly been antithetical responses to the format from people attending the same screening, so differences (if any) in the theatres' set-ups can't wholly explain the fact that some people hate the look while others rave about it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,192]

Thankfully, it was followed by what is probably my favourite bit of acting in the whole film, and that is when Balin enters into Erebor and starts crying. Ken Stott did an fantastic job there. Props to him!

That's one thing I forgot to mention. I absolutely love Balin in these films.

[Barnald 365]

I'm not ashamed to admit Balin crying set me off. That was a wonderful moment.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Balin - Son of Fundin

Lord of Moria

[Faleel 5,346]

Do not remind me!

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

At least Balin got some recognition, and a concrete box. On the other hand, poor Ori...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its not allowed to give spoilers!

[Faleel 5,346]

Yeah, at this point, it would be hard to get him some recognition, without it seeming forced...

However seeing as its Peter Jackson....

[Barnald 365]

Oh and I'd be very shocked if Bard actually used that Dwarven Windlass thing to bring down Smaug. I reckon he'll try and get on it, but it will be destroyed by Smaug before he can use it, so he'll be forced to make use of his bow, perhaps even breaking off the black arrow and firing it with his bow.

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Yeah, at this point, it would be hard to get him some recognition, without it seeming forced...

However seeing as its Peter Jackson....

Haha!

My own comment was purely in reference to the discoveries made by the Fellowship of the Ring in the Chamber of Mazarbul...

[Faleel 5,346]

So was I.

err...

It would be hard to make that connection without it being forced.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Drums....drums in the deep!

[Faleel 5,346]

"We cannot get out!"

"They are coming!"

[Glóin the Dark 1,220]

Ori should be running around with some parchment and a quill in his hand, writing down everything that happens. "Balin said That was a dragon me laddie".

[Faleel 5,346]

Ori's Journal

The Hobbit, or There and Back Again, a Hobbits Holiday.

By Ori Bilbo Baggins

BTW who wants to bet that the bit of Dialogue from Galadriel that Gandalf hears was the bit missing from AUJ that BB was talking about..

[Jay 37,352]

Interesting theory!

[Once 605]

Interesting.

I also wonder if we are going to see Ian Holm again

According to this synopsis released 5 days ago, we will. Along with Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett btw.

Nice hat.

Yeah, I love that he is wearing Price's old christmas hat in this one!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Oh and I'd be very shocked if Bard actually used that Dwarven Windlass thing to bring down Smaug. I reckon he'll try and get on it, but it will be destroyed by Smaug before he can use it, so he'll be forced to make use of his bow, perhaps even breaking off the black arrow and firing it with his bow.

He will kill him with the big dwarven thing. In PJ's logic (or anyone's actually), how can a big ass dragon be killed by one plain arrow?

[Barnald 365]

But then why bother giving Bard a bow? He'll use it, I'm telling you.

[Incanus 5,714]

Oh and I'd be very shocked if Bard actually used that Dwarven Windlass thing to bring down Smaug. I reckon he'll try and get on it, but it will be destroyed by Smaug before he can use it, so he'll be forced to make use of his bow, perhaps even breaking off the black arrow and firing it with his bow.

He will kill him with the big dwarven thing. In PJ's logic (or anyone's actually), how can a big ass dragon be killed by one plain arrow?

Sadly I have to agree. Bard has a bow to give us a hint that he is a fine marksman and thus is able to use the antique dwarven ballista to kill Smaug. I was just thinking how bloody unwieldy that contraption is. Good luck trying to hit anything fast with it. A dragon is luckily the size of a jet but when you think of the small hole in his armor it is a miracle Bard can aim right at it and hit the right spot. But it is fate!

Btw it was funny seeing Luke Ewans playing his ancenstor as it was him in the role of Girion in the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

An interesting parallel between Arwen and Tauriel.

The first time we see Arwen it's true an hallucination of Frodo, nearly succumbing to the Morgul poison. A angelic figure bathed in light.

The same eventually happens with Tauriel, first seen normally throughout the film, but becomes an angelic presence in her final shot of the film, when we see her though the near dying eyes of Killi.

[Incanus 5,714]

Isn't that a rather forced parallel the film makers put in even down to the musical similarity? It feels clumsy almost like fan service afterthought.

There is the trouble with Kili's and Tauriel's short and sweet relationship that I don't quite ever buy it. It doesn't feel that there is enough time for it to form as the film keeps such a hectic pace. Plus even though Kili is partial to elves (male and female as he is too foolish to tell the difference) his infatuation with his captor that develops in the film seems rather implausible and contrived, even though it is not taken beyond the point it reaches in the film (it was awfully maudling to my mind).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I figured the "romance" was gonna be awful. Thankfully it turned out not to be that, but I agree, in it's present form it seems to exist because of a desire by PJ/Walsh/Boyens to have a romance in this film.

But I can't really see their motivation. The much feared "love triangle" thankfully didnt happen. While Killi seems utterly infatuated with Tauriel, the reverse doesn't seem true at all. She is intrigued sure. Little else at this point.

LOTR didnt do so great either with it's central romance either. Aragorn/Arwen started out quite good, but Arwen's story went weird when she suddenly started to die for no reason.

But atleast the idea of an Elf falling in love with a man like Aragorn is believable

It's very possible the EE will have more scenes between Tauriel and Killi, but I juts can't see it working..

[Jay 37,352]

There was a triangle, Legolas seems to have feelings to Tauriel

I wonder if Tauriel will die in TABA,

or just Kili

I can't imagine there will be any more Tauriel/Kili scenes in the DOS EE

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There was a triangle, Legolas seems to have feelings to Tauriel

I wonder if Tauriel will die in TABA,

spoiler removed

I can't imagine there will be any more Tauriel/Kili scenes in the DOS EE

I know, but Tauriel doesnt seem to respond to them. A classic movie love triangle is the female character caught between her desire for two different men.

Jason, you just gave a spoiler for those who didnt read The Hobbit. Maybe you should alter your post.

[Faleel 5,346]

This is a spoiler thread