Star Wars is better than everything

[crumbs 14,287]

Completely dropping the whole Sifo-Dyas plot really pissed me off. I don't for a second believe Lucas had it all planned out from the beginning, because that was meant to be a key subplot when AOTC got released.

 

Instead, I guess all we can assume is Dooku was posing as Sifo-Dyas when he ordered the clone army, and probably murdered him.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Sifo-Dyas got covered by The Clone Wars TV show!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Is that show canon?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

The 3D one is and the 2D one isn't, if I understand correctly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Okay...

[Bilbo 3,709]

The 2008 tv series absolutely is canon. 

[Will 2,215]

Yep, the earlier 2D series is not canon, but the 3D one started in 2008 (as well as the related film) are 100% canon, just as much as the seven films. Lucas had quite a bit of involvement -- it was basically his project (albeit, obviously, with lots of help). 

 

By the way, if anyone legitimately wonders what happened to Sifo-Dyas:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sifo-Dyas

 

There are Clone Wars spoilers, I believe (I haven't watched those episodes, actually - I've only seen season 1). 

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

6 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

The 2008 tv series absolutely is canon. 

Unfortunately.  The worst Star Wars-related property put to moving pictures IMO.  

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

As far as I'm concerned, only the live action films released by Lucas are canon. They're the only ones that matter, anyway. There's a clear narrative in Episodes I-VI. It's the story of Anakin's fall, his son's rise and finally the redemption of the father. While it's true that Lucas eventually endorsed a sequel trilogy, it's basically just a bunch of bullshit. They didn't even use his original story. The idea of the characters from the OT leading these rather depressing lives after ROTJ and the galaxy once again in chaos doesn't really sit right with me. It really undermines the story told by the original films. Bob Iger unfortunately lured Lucas to the dark side. I suppose it was his destiny to fall.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I do wish there had been none of the old characters in the new trilogy.

 

It was never going to happen, though.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Ewok movies are true Star Wars!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Yes, they are. They exist outside of the main story. They're definitely canon. There's no reason they shouldn't be.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And the Holiday Special?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Lucas had little to no involvement. You know what that means.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Will 2,215]

This is cannon. 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Don't you mean:

 

 

What an exciting toy. A radar dish.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I had that!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

10 hours ago, Rose Dawson said:

Don't you mean:

 

 

What an exciting toy. A radar dish.

Not even a real RADAR. I like those; they're cool.

[Bilbo 3,709]

14 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Unfortunately.  The worst Star Wars-related property put to moving pictures IMO.  

The 2008 movie is bad in isolation. 

 

The series really took off in season 3. 

 

Rebels is the worst canon Star Wars. Easily.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

50 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

The 2008 movie is bad.

 

Fixed.

[mstrox 6,637]

Clone Wars as a series got really good, to the point where I was bummed that it got cancelled.

 

Rebels has followed the same trajectory (middling opener, really built momentum mid-season 2 to something special).

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

I agree

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

100% CONFIRMED1!!!

[mrbellamy 6,270]

JJ thought of everything!

[nightscape94 965]

It's like poetry.

[Will 2,215]

I had an idea to ramble about this awesome sort-of rejected location when I was writing my Rogue One review...

 

In the TFA art book, you can see these lushly colored city designs for "Crime City" or "Exotic City," with an awesome Middle Eastern flavor with canopies and bazaars that entrances me every time I look at it. Several versions of the concept were produced, but ultimately it essentially became Maz's castle, which was cool but pretty lame compared to what they were at one time planning.

 

Take a look at some of that gorgeous art:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

There's more, but not all of it's been posted online. Anyway, Kafrene had the canopies, Jedha did too (and Jedha also had the major Middle Eastern feel) (although it could have been created independently from Exotic City, who knows -- then again, I think some of the same artists worked on both so I wouldn't be surprised if they purposely took inspiration):

 

Spoiler

 

 

And, most intriguingly, there's this from TLJ: The Dubrovnik (spoiler is about the dominating business on the planet according to Making Star Wars)

 

Spoiler

casino

 

planet being filmed looks quite like Exotic City in many ways (https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/03/is-dubrovnik-the-exotic-city-from-the-force-awakens-concept-art.html), except without the Middle Eastern feel (unfortunately). Obviously that is from looking at actual Dubrovnik without the special effects, though. Also, that business sounds awfully crime-related and the kind of thing that would lend itself to lots of exotic cantinas and bazaars and such. Who knows.

 

Anyway, some image comparisons:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

In fact, I just now remembered this from back when Dubrovnik location filming was going on:

 

http://makingstarwars.net/2016/03/star-wars-episode-viii-dubrovnik-word-on-the-street/

 

(not a spoiler)

 

Spoiler

A friend in Dubrovnik sent us another update this morning giving us some details about what they’re hearing over in Croatia. They mention the “Exotic City” (which was a term for a location that was to be used in The Force Awakens before it became Maz’s Castle). Some people have spotted the terminology “Exotic City” used again for said location but it’s not clear if its just a reusing of the moniker or if this could be the location of Maz’s new joint or whatever (we really don’t know yet).

 

...

 

A member of the local production company has anonymously confirmed your speculation: the “Exotic City” props are laterally rowed to the left hand side of the main Dubrovnik street, are approximately just one-story-high, and will thus certainly be augmented by ILM in post-production (e.g., by virtue of additional roof trusses, canopies, canvases, etc.), though the residents were requested to remove all the satellite dishes and/or TV antennae today.

 

If they did actually add canopies by CGI that would be a TON of work, I'd think, but in theory then this location could look just like the TFA art. In any case, this new location looks to retain at least some elements of Crime/Exotic City, with possibly more a Naboo feel.

 

And then for the Han Solo film:

 

http://makingstarwars.net/2017/01/han-solo-production-to-shoot-spains-canary-islands/

 

Quote

This location is news to us but the idea of piers and docks are not and this location seems to interface with some stranger one-off things we’ve seen from Han Solo so far. That stuff was sort of like a few paintings for the “Exotic City” that was done for Episode VII but it was still very different. That said, any  mention of Fuerteventura is news to us!

 

And, lastly, seemingly the most similar to the original designs are the new Star Wars Land concepts (although I do fear that perhaps they will change it if it doesn't feature in any of the films) (this does all echo reported TFA concept art for the Exotic City in various stages of its development - http://makingstarwars.net/2014/11/concepts-star-wars-force-awakens-falcons-triumphant-return-maybe-maybe/)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously the concepts likely look more fantastical than the real thing, but this new land looks to essentially be the Exotic City, intact. 

 

Oh, I just found this!

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/the-daily-disney/os-star-wars-disney-hollywood-studios-20150815-story.html

 

Quote

The land “will introduce you to a Star Wars planet you’ve never seen before — a gateway planet located on the outer rim, full of places and characters familiar and not so familiar,” Bob Chapek, chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, told D23 fans.

 

Quote

“The inhabitants of this remote frontier town — one of the last stops before wild space — will operate every store and restaurant. Every single thing will be in story.

 

http://variety.com/2015/film/news/d23-star-wars-land-disneyland-1201571059/

 

Quote

“We are creating a jaw-dropping new world that represents our largest single-themed land expansion ever,” Iger said. “These new lands at Disneyland and Walt Disney World will transport guests to a whole new ‘Star Wars’ planet."

 

Iger said the new areas will be “occupied by many inhabitants; humanoids, aliens and droids … the attractions, the entertainment, everything we create will be part of our storytelling. Nothing will be out of character or stray from the mythology.”

 

At both parks, there will be a cantina where fans can “run into all the droids and roaming beasts ‘Star Wars’ is known for,” including characters from the existing “Star Wars” saga and upcoming installment “The Force Awakens.”

 

OK, so you know what? Given this info, I now think that the Exotic City is likely to be realized in full at, and only at, Star Wars Land. But the films clearly are and will draw inspiration from the concept. Gosh, this Star Wars Land looks absolutely stunning. Getting to see Exotic City would be one thing but getting to walk through it would be entirely another. It's the one amusement park I've ever heard of that I desperately want to visit. Although I'll probably never get the chance. It opens in 2019, by the way, in California and Florida. 

[Will 2,215]

I've watched the first season of Clone Wars plus the film in the past, but I just kind of stopped, not having the will to keep going.

 

I watched the first episode of Rebels last night, and wasn't particularly engaged either. 

 

I suppose this is a common reaction of mine to Star Wars - I am rarely all that engaged while actually watching; it's more afterward thinking about the story and planets that the real impact comes (and why I'm a fan). Plus the music of course. 

 

Anyway, do Clone Wars and Rebels get any better? Or are they maybe just not right for me? 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

22 minutes ago, Will said:

Anyway, do Clone Wars and Rebels get any better? Or are they maybe just not right for me? 

Clone Wars is relatively good. But I admit I watched it a while back and don't remember a great deal of it anymore.

Rebels is entertaining. It's got some very good stuff in it. Plus some quite silly bits (including one thing that REALLY crossed a line for me).

But still.... when it's good, it is the best Star Wars that isn't the films!

[Giftheck 916]

What was that line-crosser?

[Will 2,215]

Well, I just watched Rebels episode 3, Droids in Distress, and it was awesome. So I'll definitely be giving this series a few more chances!!

[mstrox 6,637]

Clone Wars ran its episodes mainly in multi-episode arcs, so if you had a stinker, chances are you were going to be following that story for a few more weeks.  By the time we got to maybe season 3, though, it was pretty good across the board.  Ahsoka is the real stand-out as the story continues, especially as of season 5.  There's also a plotline in season 5 about two brothers starting a criminal syndicate on Mandalore that is really good.

 

Rebels got good by the first season finale.  Like most TV shows, there are occasional "filler" episodes which don't further the overall story, but just tell fun little adventures or show us something new about the characters.  Your mileage may vary on whether you're okay with that - I think they're still fun.  It's unreasonable to think that a 30 minute cartoon will be too highly serialized.

 

As a side-note, the shows both tended to look better and better as time went on.  It costs money to create and render new characters, but once you do that, it's in your library.  The world becomes much fuller.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Yeah both shows got/is getting better and better, with some great episodes.

 

Will, I would suggest trying to watch clone wars first, since some story arcs carry over rebels. It has a greater emotional impact that way.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

18 hours ago, Gistech said:

What was that line-crosser?

Helicopter lightsabers. How can anyone POSSIBLY take that seriously?!? 

 

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Will, I would suggest trying to watch clone wars first, since some story arcs carry over rebels. It has a greater emotional impact that way.

Fair point. My roommate misses out on some stuff once in a while because of that.

And so do I, because some of the stuff I saw in Clone Wars, I forgot again! 

[mstrox 6,637]

24 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

Helicopter lightsabers. How can anyone POSSIBLY take that seriously?!? 

 

I had some real trouble with that myself.  Thankfully it's just a one-episode dumb visual (and the rest of that episode, the season 2 finale, was so good) that we can ignore that going forward (until it happens again, or until somebody becomes a lightsaber airplane).

[Pieter Boelen 740]

18 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 

I had some real trouble with that myself.  Thankfully it's just a one-episode dumb visual (and the rest of that episode, the season 2 finale, was so good) that we can ignore that going forward (until it happens again, or until somebody becomes a lightsaber airplane).

Fair point.

I do very much wonder what they were thinking though when they came up with that.

It is stupid on SO many different levels. At the same time! 

[Tallguy 3,359]

I still love Rebels.  Every season has moved in new and interesting directions.

 

But season one just found my 1977 buttons and jumped up and down on them.  Like the movies the show has moved into a wider and more sophisticated setting.  But oh that first thrill!

[Quintus 5,399]

[Bilbo 3,709]

Clone Wars was significantly better than Rebels. 

 

 

[Will 2,215]

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

I am definitely planning to return to Clone Wars soon (since I have heard that Ahsoka and others return). It was that just that it was getting hard to get excited about that show. 

 

Rebels has been terrific right off the bat (except for the very first episode). This is the second time I've heard people say that Clone Wars gets better after the first season (all I've watched) so hopefully it will reach a Rebels level. I mean, Clone Wars has been terrific in expanding the universe, and the Clone Wars are pretty awesome in an intellectual sense (all the complexity); however, they weren't often truly engaging to watch IIRC. So I kind of just stopped like a year ago.

 

Trying to get back into the Star Wars animation swing right now, and wanted to try something new. 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Hopefully Rebels will reach a Clone Wars level you mean. 

 

Clone Wars took awhile to get going but with Rebels they had over 100 episodes of Clone Wars to know what works and doesn't work re: animated Star Wars. 

 

Theres also nothing likeable about Ezra. 

 

 

And  don't even get me started on the Mary Sue that is Thrawn. 

[Giftheck 916]

On 13/03/2017 at 5:45 PM, Pieter_Boelen said:

Helicopter lightsabers. How can anyone POSSIBLY take that seriously?!? 

 

Yeah, I took issue with that too. Glad that sort of thing will never see the light of day in any of the films.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

Are you sure?

 

It is CANON. yikes.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

19 hours ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

And  don't even get me started on the Mary Sue that is Thrawn. 

But he hasn't been particularly successful yet, has he? 

[mstrox 6,637]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 6:56 PM, Bilbo Skywalker said:

And  don't even get me started on the Mary Sue that is Thrawn. 

 

"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities." (Wikipedia)

 

I don't really see how Thrawn fits that mold.  He's certainly a character written to have extraordinary abilities of deduction, but being skilled isn't the same as being a wish-fulfillment cypher for the showmakers/viewers.  Sherlock Holmes is a master of deduction, but nobody considers him a Mary Sue.  Like Darth Vader and Palpatine before him, he's a Star Wars villain - which means he will be a very powerful threat to the heroes, until he is undone.  He just exhibits a different kind of power than a Force user.

 

Luke, Ezra, and Rey are closer to Mary Sues, if we want to use a loose definition of that phrase (although I've always considered Mary Sue to be much, much more severe of an example than "unlikely hero")

 

For better or worse, the Thrawn that is in the show is the same Thrawn character-wise that was in the dumb books.

 

[Bilbo 3,709]

Sherlock Holmes deducts things based on what's right in front of him.

 

Thrawn uses art and all sorts of bollcks to deduct the Rebels' movements and plans. It's just so half arsed. 

[Giftheck 916]

Just now, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Sherlock Holmes deducts things based on what's right in front of him.

 

Thrawn uses art and all sorts of bollcks to deduct the Rebels' movements and plans. It's just so half arsed. 

 

"To defeat an enemy, you must know them." He's figuring out their characters and basing his assumptions about their plans off those characters. Basic profiling.

[mstrox 6,637]

5 minutes ago, Bilbo Skywalker said:

Thrawn uses art and all sorts of bollcks to deduct the Rebels' movements and plans. It's just so half arsed. 

 

I agree that it's half-assed, but I wouldn't call that a Mary Sue thing.  And it's not so much a Rebels flaw as it is a Timothy Zahn flaw.  Hope they don't bring back Joruuuuuus and Luuuuuuke next

[Giftheck 916]

Just now, mstrox said:

 

I agree that it's half-assed, but I wouldn't call that a Mary Sue thing.  And it's not so much a Rebels flaw as it is a Timothy Zahn flaw.  Hope they don't bring back Joruuuuuus and Luuuuuuke next

 

Thankfully I don't think clone Jedi is going to ever be a thing again.

[Bilbo 3,709]

TZ did more harm than good. 90s novels should be left in the 90s.