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Star Wars is better than everything


Jay

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Chen, I hope you read The Thrawn Trilogy someday. I think you would like it. I think if you like the original serial (rather than saga) concept of the original film, you’ll find great enjoyment in returning to the idea that Luke Skywalker, having achieved the rank of Jedi Knight, continues to have swashbuckling adventure across the galaxy. It shows you don’t always have to top the stakes of the previous story. Indeed, I’m sure you can find many such counterexamples. After The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe you can have more intensely personal stories like The Silver Chair. After Arthur’s war with the Roman Emperor, you can have the Quest for the Grail.

 

As to the Disney ST, The Force Awakens makes it seem like you have this mysterious group from the Unknown Regions attacking the New Republic, but it is defeated at the end. Well, the group itself maybe not so mysterious—a fanatical Imperial remnant—but Snoke as a mysterious force puppeteering it. The rest of the trilogy could have been a journey into the Unknown Regions to counter this unknown threat and uncover new mysteries.

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5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

People do dislike the politics, and its only there because of the period its set in.

 

This I agree with. No one wanted to see a story about the taxation of trade routes.  But the prequels, by definition, had to be about the fall of the Old Republic b/c of corruption within, paralleled with Anakin's corruption & fall. That's always been the story to one extent or another.

 

And I definitely think the sequels should have at least started with a peaceful New Republic. It was malpractice from a story point of view to not show at least some of the fruits that everyone suffered and fought for.  Of course, you introduce conflict early on, but Abrams simply resetting the universe back to where it was in A New Hope was lazy and uninspired.

 

While I haven't read any of the EU books other than the Thrawn trilogy (which was excellent), it's well established you can tell these post-ROTJ stories in a compelling way.  In fact they probably should have drawn from the EU much more from the start.

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I think they're starting to find the sweet spot in Mandalorian with incorporating the EU.  Don't adapt stories outright, but pick and choose the best elements and incorporate them into new stories. This, it seems, has more or less been Marvel's approach (to a much greater extent) in bringing in characters and story beats from the comics, and seems to work.

 

That said, I'll admit I've read almost none of the EU books or comics, and haven't bothered to watch any of the animated shows, so what do I know. But the stuff I've seen in the Mandalorian I generally like.  Favreau & Filoni seem to know what they're doing, and should probably be given the reins over the whole thing, at least creatively.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/23/2020 at 2:24 PM, Nick1066 said:

I think they're starting to find the sweet spot in Mandalorian with incorporating the EU.  Don't adapt stories outright, but pick and choose the best elements and incorporate them into new stories. This, it seems, has more or less been Marvel's approach (to a much greater extent) in bringing in characters and story beats from the comics, and seems to work.

 

That said, I'll admit I've read almost none of the EU books or comics, and haven't bothered to watch any of the animated shows, so what do I know. But the stuff I've seen in the Mandalorian I generally like.  Favreau & Filoni seem to know what they're doing, and should probably be given the reins over the whole thing, at least creatively.

Do you have a reason for not watching the animated shows? At first I wasn’t completely interested in Rebels because I thought it was more geared towards kids, but it’s really not. It starts off that way but I really digs deep into the lore. Same with Clone Wars. I would definitely say give them a chance at some point, there might be stuff in them you might actually enjoy.

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11 hours ago, Brando said:

Do you have a reason for not watching the animated shows?

 

It’s like saying, “Do you have a reason for not reading War and Peace?”

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So there's a YouTube video out there that suggests The Mandalorian and other Filoni projects take place in an alternative reality from the sequel trilogy. 

 

 

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One of my good friends is always sending me links to youtube videos about how Disney should retcon the sequel trilogy as having taken place in an alternate timeline and no longer make any references to it.  I don't ever watch them

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1 hour ago, Demodex said:

So there's a YouTube video out there that suggests The Mandalorian and other Filoni projects take place in an alternative reality from the sequel trilogy. 

 

Isn't that the same moron who came up with the whole anagram thing?

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I used to like Cinema Sins but then fell off it.  It became too nit picky and redundant


Honest Trailers are still fresh every time (but starting to get redundant). 

 

Pitch Meetings are still brilliant

 

 

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2 hours ago, mstrox said:

Never met a good YouTuber.  Burn em all

HelloGreedo and Star Wars Explained are excellent excellent channels for SW. Very positive points of view and discussions/topics they discuss.

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I watch quite a bit of YT, some more than others: Scott the Woz, Cinemassacre, Nostalgia Critic, Scott Cramer, Arlo, Drumeo, JustJP

 

 

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On 12/24/2020 at 5:30 AM, mstrox said:

I read large swaths of the Legends EU over the decades, and am currently in the middle of reading or rereading through them all in release order.  I've always, since the 1990s, been puzzled over people's love of the Thrawn trilogy particularly, which is certainly readable and introduces a fun handful of characters to the universe, but includes so much clunky awful stuff as well.  I much prefer the sequel trilogy, even factoring in the woeful TROS.

 

Star Wars books are a fun diversion most of the time, except for the absolute worst of the worst of them, but I mean they're just mass market paperbacks.  By the time we made it through the New Jedi Order and Legacy of the Force, the universe was ripe for a reboot, and the Disney purchase fit that timeline almost perfectly.

What clunky awful stuff?

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Not just Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuke but everything that had to do with Joruus C'Buuuuuuuoth as well.  And just the general stuff that plagued a lot of EU, especially the early EU where there wasn't a lot of other stuff to reference - Lando's continued entanglement with the big three in spite of no reason for him to pop up (since the authors in this period placed him as just off doing his baron administrator stuff in different convenient locales), frequent callbacks to events from the OT movies and callbacks/references to specific lines and dialogue, like the characters were frozen at the end of Return of the Jedi and defrosted just to have a new trilogy of adventures.

 

Like I said, they're fine for mass market paperback deals (and Zahn's Thrawn trilogy is ahead of the curve, especially considering its proximity to KJA), but to consider them as unimpeachable must-have moments in the saga of our main characters would be met with a shrug from ol' Mike.

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On 12/23/2020 at 7:30 PM, mstrox said:

 

Star Wars books are a fun diversion most of the time, except for the absolute worst of the worst of them, but I mean they're just mass market paperbacks.  By the time we made it through the New Jedi Order and Legacy of the Force, the universe was ripe for a reboot, and the Disney purchase fit that timeline almost perfectly.

They were in the perfect spot to start a new trilogy with jaina as leader of the jedi, with a full.new cast, having the old three just retired. Just a happy cameo of the three together and create a new threat and story for the new jedi. 

 

At least the writers of the films would know where all of that came from, unlike the new trilogy that was made as they went...and now are fullfilling the holes between trilogies in a cheap fashion..since they cannot interfere with future film or tv projects...

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I think that's a completely understandable desire if you think that Legends was a worthwhile legacy to build a franchise on.  I disagree strongly, but that's just me!

 

(I'm not a Legends hater and am in fact currently rereading all of it by release date - in the middle of Bounty Hunter Wars now - but enjoying it for what it is and thinking that it works in any way off the page are two separate meters for me) 

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9 hours ago, mstrox said:

Not just Luuuuuuuuuuuuuuke but everything that had to do with Joruus C'Buuuuuuuoth as well.  And just the general stuff that plagued a lot of EU, especially the early EU where there wasn't a lot of other stuff to reference - Lando's continued entanglement with the big three in spite of no reason for him to pop up (since the authors in this period placed him as just off doing his baron administrator stuff in different convenient locales), frequent callbacks to events from the OT movies and callbacks/references to specific lines and dialogue, like the characters were frozen at the end of Return of the Jedi and defrosted just to have a new trilogy of adventures.

 

Like I said, they're fine for mass market paperback deals (and Zahn's Thrawn trilogy is ahead of the curve, especially considering its proximity to KJA), but to consider them as unimpeachable must-have moments in the saga of our main characters would be met with a shrug from ol' Mike.

The events of ROTJ were still in pretty recent memory (4 or 5 years ago?) and considering how significant those events were I would be surprised if it the characters weren’t constantly being reminded of those situations. Keep in mind the context, it’s mostly been clean up of the Empire since then and establishing a new government - relative peace and uneventfulness compared to the Galactic Civil War. You say that Lando had no reason to be a part of things but then recognise that they wrote him so that he was, so I’m confused. He’s sympathetic to the Rebellion and Thrawn went for his resources specifically so it was personal, more than enough motivation to assist.

 

What’s bad about Joruus C’Baoth and Luuke? The naming is needed to distinguish between the original and the clone, and in the audiobook the differing pronunciation helps a lot

 

I just finished the trilogy recently for the first time, so I have zero nostalgia for these, and I still thought they were an extraordinary sequel trilogy, very well written and exploring interesting facets either touched on or not in the previous main films, as well as extremely faithful to the legacy characters whilst still expanding on them.

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46 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

The events of ROTJ were still in pretty recent memory (4 or 5 years ago?) and considering how significant those events were I would be surprised if it the characters weren’t constantly being reminded of those situations. Keep in mind the context, it’s mostly been clean up of the Empire since then and establishing a new government - relative peace and uneventfulness compared to the Galactic Civil War. You say that Lando had no reason to be a part of things but then recognise that they wrote him so that he was, so I’m confused. He’s sympathetic to the Rebellion and Thrawn went for his resources specifically so it was personal, more than enough motivation to assist.

 

What’s bad about Joruus C’Baoth and Luuke? The naming is needed to distinguish between the original and the clone, and in the audiobook the differing pronunciation helps a lot

 

I just finished the trilogy recently for the first time, so I have zero nostalgia for these, and I still thought they were an extraordinary sequel trilogy, very well written and exploring interesting facets either touched on or not in the previous main films, as well as extremely faithful to the legacy characters whilst still expanding on them.


im glad you liked it!

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7 hours ago, Spider-Fal said:

One thing the Legends did pretty well early on was having characters sort of introduce you to the next IMHO

What I was surprised by as well was that this trilogy kind of foreshadows Dark Empire by hinting that the Emperor's presence still persists in the galaxy, which I thought was cool - and also establishing the Spa'arti cloning cylinders

It'd make sense given that the Thrawn Trilogy was the beginning of the more interconnected and intertwined era of the EU

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14 hours ago, mstrox said:

I think that's a completely understandable desire if you think that Legends was a worthwhile legacy to build a franchise on.  I disagree strongly, but that's just me!

 

(I'm not a Legends hater and am in fact currently rereading all of it by release date - in the middle of Bounty Hunter Wars now - but enjoying it for what it is and thinking that it works in any way off the page are two separate meters for me) 

You can make a decent backstory with the main story points...not all 100% details needed be canon.

 

For the casual moviegoer it would be the same as with the sequel trilogy: there is a 20-30 year gap between trilogies and dont have a clue how the galaxy arrived to that point.

 

I am a star wars fan and dont have a clue...and im not going to read any new books, so i will never know.

 

Im sorry but they alienated a third or a fourth of the fanbase with the legends label, and made mediocre films. The legends trilogy could have been equally mediocre but would have had more supporters i think. Bad bussiness decission, imho.

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10 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

You can make a decent backstory with the main story points...not all 100% details needed be canon.

 

For the casual moviegoer it would be the same as with the sequel trilogy: there is a 20-30 year gap between trilogies and dont have a clue how the galaxy arrived to that point.

 

I am a star wars fan and dont have a clue...and im not going to read any new books, so i will never know.

 

Im sorry but they alienated a third or a fourth of the fanbase with the legends label, and made mediocre films. The legends trilogy could have been equally mediocre but would have had more supporters i think. Bad bussiness decission, imho.


The worst business decision they've made so far, I think. Murdering the goodwill behind a large portion of the fanbase when they could've kept the EU continuity and the new stuff and let the consumers make up their minds for what continuity they prefer. All the money goes back to the same source after all, but I guess like so many other companies that end up taking over sacrosanct IPs, they felt the need to put their stamp on it.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

It's no secret what happened. Have you ever played that game where you sit in a circle and tell a story together, with each person only contributing one word before passing it along to the next person? The dynamics of the group make a big difference. Some people will take an improvisational "yes, and"  attitude and try to continue the story their predecessors are aiming for; others will decide they've got a better idea and take the thing in a completely different direction.

 

In that game, the latter approach often yields hilariously absurd results. But in filmmaking, playing out over multiple films, it tends to just yield sucky sagas. (Even if a lot of the individual ideas are quite strong.)

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23 minutes ago, Datameister said:

In that game, the latter approach often yields hilariously absurd results. But in filmmaking, playing out over multiple films, it tends to just yield sucky sagas. (Even if a lot of the individual ideas are quite strong.)

Idk I thought it was funny when they did it

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  • 2 weeks later...

Big Star Wars archival release day on Disney+, April 2nd.

Quote

 

Caravan of Courage

Ewoks: The Battle for Endor

Star Wars: Clone Wars – Volume I

Star Wars: Clone Wars – Volume II

Star Wars: Ewoks (S1)

Star Wars: Ewoks (S2)

The Story of the Faithful Wookiee

 

 

That last one is the animated segment from the Holiday Special, btw.

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