JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 One thing I do feel really strongly about is that the scores for these films don't have at least a orchestral Williams sounds, they don't know what they're doing. I'm sorta fine with them trying new stuff on the series, but I want (whoever scores it) so do big orchestral scores for these films DarthDementous and Evanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Giftheck said: Plot twist: New Jedi Order is a conspiracy to force John Williams out of retirement using his fondness for Daisy Ridley as the lure It's not a conspiracy theory it's a simple fact Giftheck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 I will check all this out, as I always do. But I see nothing that tells me these projects won’t be just as insular, self-referential, and lacking pulp flavor and bite as all the rest of the Disney canon. They have too much to lose to make it weird, and to little to really swing for the fences. What I would give for George’s sequel trilogy, JW or no. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 I’m not super excited by the ”Filoniverse”, I don’t think I’ll go to see any of the new movies at the cinema. I’ll watch judgingly from my sofa when it comes out on Disney+. 😂 But hey, if they’re able to drag JW into this that might change my mind… 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Schilkeman said: What I would give for George’s sequel trilogy, JW or no. George Lucas would have, at most, gave us an Episode VII. I doubt he had anything written in considerable detail for VIII and IX: there’s a reason all we know about his preproduction work pertains to Episode VII and bits of VIII that were originally part of VII. There is no - nor would there have been - a George Lucas sequel trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 23 minutes ago, Chen G. said: There is no - nor would there have been - a George Lucas sequel trilogy. I mean, sure. We didn’t have a prequel trilogy until he sat down and wrote it. I’m sure he didn’t have much more than treatments written, since he was so adamant that there was no more story to tell after Jedi, but I would still prefer anything he came up with over what we got Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Chen G. said: George Lucas would have, at most, gave us an Episode VII. I doubt he had anything written in considerable detail for VIII and IX: there’s a reason all we know about his preproduction work pertains to Episode VII and bits of VIII that were originally part of VII. There is no - nor would there have been - a George Lucas sequel trilogy. The expectation of a trilogy is already there, and you bet your ass if Episode 7 did well then sequels would've been made Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Chen G. said: George Lucas would have, at most, gave us an Episode VII. I doubt he had anything written in considerable detail for VIII and IX: there’s a reason all we know about his preproduction work pertains to Episode VII and bits of VIII that were originally part of VII. There is no - nor would there have been - a George Lucas sequel trilogy. Didn't Lucas at one point, in his every shifting account of writing multiple trilogies, splitting them into halves and thirds, then splitting them again, etc, say something about 12 movies? Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said: Didn't Lucas at one point, in his every shifting account of writing multiple trilogies, splitting them into halves and thirds, then splitting them again, etc, say something about 12 movies? Yes, but if you read what he had planned, almost all of it got addressed in RotJ. The new trilogy he’s spoken of more recently seems much more existential and esoteric than any of his original plans. Since about 1983 or so, he’s been pretty clear that there was no story after Jedi. I like the theory that he only wrote treatments for the sequels as a way of sweetening the deal with Disney. But I also think, as he got the ball rolling with them, he came up with some interesting ideas, and he was hoping (and expecting) Disney to use them. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Schilkeman said: I mean, sure. We didn’t have a prequel trilogy until he sat down and wrote it. I’m sure he didn’t have much more than treatments written, since he was so adamant that there was no more story to tell after Jedi, but I would still prefer anything he came up with over what we got difference is he wouldn’t be bothered to write three sequels. Dude’s enjoying his Disney money too much to be bothered with picture making. 41 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said: Didn't Lucas at one point, in his every shifting account of writing multiple trilogies, splitting them into halves and thirds, then splitting them again, etc, say something about 12 movies? Yes. He says he wrote a 200-page script, divided it to two parts, reworked them back to 200 pages each, and split each into three parts which he reworked into scripts: the classic trilogy and the prequel trilogy. Ontop of that he said he wrote a sequel trilogy (“after the success of Star Wars”) and three “odd” films - ostensibly spin-offs like the ones we got - resulting in twelve films all in the ready. Rinzler actually dredged up a document of Lucas’ of twelve films, containing a “prelude”, a “clone wars” trilogy, a bridge film (titled epilogue/prelude), the “Star Wars” trilogy, and four further entries (none of which are bunched up as a trilogy) with the last being marked “resolution.” There are no plot details next to any of them (except the original), and I believe that if it’s authentic at all (and I don’t put it beyond Lucas to have manufactured it after the fact) it was probably drafted to decide on what to number The Empire Strikes Back as: here it was Episode 7! Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 numbering Empire suddenly is still to me one of the weirdest decisions ever made. not to mention the amount of time that lapsed between this decision and when it made any sense. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: and I don’t put it beyond Lucas to have manufactured it after the fact Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, Schilkeman said: A few passages in Rinzler’s book had been doctored by Lucas: there’s a passage that makes it seem like Lucas spoke about Midichlorians in 1977: He didn’t: Quote While we were preparing the text for The Making of Star Wars, Lucas added a note to this passage about midi-chlorians, bringing his original words in line with his later thoughts and the events of the prequel trilogy. So I wouldn’t put it beyond Lucas to jot down a few words on yellow legal pad and sending it to Rinzler. One of the big question marks is why Lucas would bother making notes in this document about the original film, which was already made, and not any other entry. 9 minutes ago, Brónach said: numbering Empire suddenly is still to me one of the weirdest decisions ever made It took a while! It seems it wasn’t decided that it would be anything other than Episode II before 1979 started. Again, the situation is misrepresented in Rinzler’s book, which makes it seem like the typed version of the draft (which carries “Episode V” moniker) was concurrent with Lucas handwritten drafts: it wasn’t. Giftheck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 08/04/2023 at 1:18 PM, Chen G. said: So I wouldn’t put it beyond Lucas to jot down a few words on yellow legal pad and sending it to Rinzler. One of the big question marks is why Lucas would bother making notes in this document about the original film, which was already made, and not any other entry. Rinzler's comment is unclear. Did Lucas change the transcript of that original conversation, or did he add to it with his usual "original intention" stuff? Lucas is a chronic revisionist, is often contradictory, and has a tendency to state things as final that are defiantly more in flux until he actually gets around to making it, but I've never seen anything that tells me he creates evidence whole-cloth to support his "original intention" claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 The quote in Rinzler's book: Quote "The Force gives you the power to have extrasensory perception and to be able to see things and hear things, read minds and levitate things. It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells. The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us." And then in Rinzler's blog: Quote "It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different. The Force is a perception of the reality that exists around us." [...]While we were preparing the text for The Making of Star Wars, Lucas added a note to this passage about midi-chlorians, bringing his original words in line with his later thoughts and the events of the prequel trilogy. Lucas took a passage quoting himself from an interview in 1977, and ADDED "they have more midi-chlorians in their cells." That seems preety clear to me. That's not the only bending of the truth in Rinzler's book, either. For instance, Rinzler suggests that all the drafts of The Empire Strikes Back were titled "Episode V" since the typed version of the first draft had that, except elsewhere he suggests that that typed draft "with Joe Johnston and Ralph McQuarrie artwork" - Ralph having only joined the film after several drafts had been written, none of which bore the title "Episode V." Then there's a passage where Rinzler quotes an extended passage from Lucas' notes saying that they "deal with the psychology of children" without clarifying that they are in fact extended passages taken from a December 1975 column of Bruno Bettelheim that Lucas read on The New Yorker. This in spite of the fact that a few lines later he's talking to Lucas about Bettelheim and, being unaware of this column (an extract from Bettleheim's later book) suggests that Lucas got an early copy of Bettelheim's 1977 book, which is a ridiculous notion. Nor is it the only example of Lucas doctoring history: in 1979, Lucasfilm released a copy of the script to the original film, for all intents and purposes represented as the original script, except now it was titled "Episode IV A New Hope" (authetic drafts are titled "(Saga I) Star Wars"; it had been edited to match the final edit; the Jabba scene was added back, with an additional description that was never there before about how Jabba "is a fat, slug-like creature with eyes on extended feelers and a huge ugly mouth." I also think this bit of Rinzler's book might be doctored: Quote I read everything from John Carter of Mars to The Golden Bough, so obviously all of that influences you in a certain way. I’m trying to make a classic genre picture, a classic space opera – and there are certain concepts that have been developed by writers, primarily Edgar Rice Burroughs that are traditional, and you keep those traditional aspects about the project.” because its eerily similar to this quote from 1977, obviously absent all the highflautin talk of The Golden Bough: Quote I discovered that he'd got his inspiration from the works of Edgar Rice Burroughs (author of Tarzan) and especially from his John Carter of Mars series books. [...] What finally emerged through the many drafts of the script has obviously been influenced by science-fiction and action-adventure I've read and seen. And I've seen a lot of it. I'm trying to make a classic sort of genre picture, a classic space fantasy in which all the influences are working together. There are certain traditional aspects of the genre I wanted to keep and help perpetuate in Star Wars. rough cut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,344 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 At watching TLJ again yesterday I realized, that TROS actually had one good idea. Hux betraying the first order after all was a good move. But that was pretty much it. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Chen G. said: The quote in Rinzler's book: And then in Rinzler's blog: Lucas took a passage quoting himself from an interview in 1977, and ADDED "they have more midi-chlorians in their cells." That seems preety clear to me. That's not the only bending of the truth in Rinzler's book, either. For instance, Rinzler suggests that all the drafts of The Empire Strikes Back were titled "Episode V" since the typed version of the first draft had that, except elsewhere he suggests that that typed draft "with Joe Johnston and Ralph McQuarrie artwork" - Ralph having only joined the film after several drafts had been written, none of which bore the title "Episode V." Then there's a passage where Rinzler quotes an extended passage from Lucas' notes saying that they "deal with the psychology of children" without clarifying that they are in fact extended passages taken from a December 1975 column of Bruno Bettelheim that Lucas read on The New Yorker. This in spite of the fact that a few lines later he's talking to Lucas about Bettelheim and, being unaware of this column (an extract from Bettleheim's later book) suggests that Lucas got an early copy of Bettelheim's 1977 book, which is a ridiculous notion. Nor is it the only example of Lucas doctoring history: in 1979, Lucasfilm released a copy of the script to the original film, for all intents and purposes represented as the original script, except now it was titled "Episode IV A New Hope" (authetic drafts are titled "(Saga I) Star Wars"; it had been edited to match the final edit; the Jabba scene was added back, with an additional description that was never there before about how Jabba "is a fat, slug-like creature with eyes on extended feelers and a huge ugly mouth." I also think this bit of Rinzler's book might be doctored: because its eerily similar to this quote from 1977, obviously absent all the highflautin talk of The Golden Bough: Fair enough. More to the point, though. I don't really care. Whatever his personal foibles, I consider him a first-rate artistic genius. Whatever mental gymnastics it took to get him there, the end results are, in my opinion, fantastic. Disney has shown that it does not fully understand the peculiar and specific genre and stylistic choices made in the first six Star Wars films. They shoot them like modern TV, and make everything look like a backlot western. There is no Flash Gordon, no documentarian shooting styles, no artistic whimsy, no profound symbolism, and no visual wonder. They can't even make blasters sound like blasters. Therefore, I am not particularly interested in any of this new stuff. But I would love to be pleasantly surprised. And I would still trade every new film, TV show, and the entirety of the Legends and Canon EU for a new Lucas trilogy. Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 7 hours ago, Schilkeman said: I don't really care. Whatever his personal foibles, I consider him a first-rate artistic genius. Whatever mental gymnastics it took to get him there, the end results are, in my opinion, fantastic. Disney has shown that it does not fully understand the peculiar and specific genre and stylistic choices made in the first six Star Wars films. They shoot them like modern TV, and make everything look like a backlot western. There is no Flash Gordon, no documentarian shooting styles, no artistic whimsy, no profound symbolism, and no visual wonder. I think all these affectations - and there are many more of them that have to do with the image of the films themselves - do matter, because how can a man who thinks so little of his audience's intelligence as to believe they'd buy all his lies (which are not only ludicrous, but don't line up internally) not also think too little of his audiences' intelligence in the films that he makes? I also think these affectations that "no Star Wars is actually a deeply philosophical work, steeped in Campbell and Thomas Mallory rather than Burroughs and Alex Raymond" led to some of the shortcomings of the prequels, stumbling over their own scale and solemnity as they sometimes did. To my mind, the real genius of George Lucas is in businessmaking: I think of him more as a producer who directs, than as a director who produces. As far as his genius in filmmaking goes...I was never too impressed by his mise-en-scene, even in his finest outings, but obviously one's milleage may vary. The genius of his best films is actually in their screenplays. Certainly, all the talk of "documentarian shooting style" are affectations: from Graffiti onwards, his films have very few faux-documentary trappings. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naïve Old Fart 9,508 Posted April 10, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2023 NOW, JUST A DAMN MINUTE!!!! Star Wars Is Better Than Everything; Indiana Jones Is Better Than Everything; Star Trek Is Better Than Everything; even The fucking Muppets Is Better Than Everything. They can't all be better than everything! Which one is better???!!!!! Bilbo, Andy, Chen G. and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,342 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: NOW, JUST A DAMN MINUTE!!!! Star Wars Is Better Than Everything; Indiana Jones Is Better Than Everything; Star Trek Is Better Than Everything; even The fucking Muppets Is Better Than Everything. They can't all be better than everything! Which one is better???!!!!! Blame Justin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 Drax started the first one, not Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted April 10, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted April 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, Chen G. said: To my mind, the real genius of George Lucas is in businessmaking While I agree that Lucas is a revisionist, at best, when it comes to the history of Star Wars, I disagree with the assertion that he's not an artistic genius. I think to some extent at least, he is. Star Wars was an incredible feat of imagination and vision. Yes, it had its own influences, as do all works of art. But the sheer creativity involved in creating that world, those characters and bringing them altogether in that story shouldn't be dismissed. Not only the vision to create it, but the talent and drive to put it on the screen. That's an amazing artistic accomplishment, no matter his fabulism. That said, yeah, he has flaws. He peaked too soon, became lazy and perhaps ran out of ideas. Star Wars arguably isn't even the best film, Empire is. But it was his creative vision that started the whole thing, and for that he deserves a tremendous amount of credit and respect. Chen G., Bilbo and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: NOW, JUST A DAMN MINUTE!!!! Star Wars Is Better Than Everything; Indiana Jones Is Better Than Everything; Star Trek Is Better Than Everything; even The fucking Muppets Is Better Than Everything. They can't all be better than everything! Which one is better???!!!!! All of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said: That said, yeah, he has flaws. He peaked too soon, became lazy and perhaps ran out of ideas. Star Wars arguably isn't even the best film, Empire is. But it was his creative vision that started the whole thing, and for that he deserves a tremendous amount of credit and respect. I think the real issue is that Lucas directed so few films, that its hard to make any statements regarding trends in his filmography without falling into the trap of having an insufficient sample. I'll rephrase: I think the greatness of Star Wars (and much the same is true of Graffiti) is more in its script (and the special effects) than anything Lucas does with it behind the camera. Lucas often says he's a visual guy and not much of a writer, but to my mind the proof is to the contrary. And I still think he's more of a producer that directs than a director who produces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Has anyone heard the story (urban legend?) that originally George Lucas was supposed to direct Apocalypse Now? I often wonder how that movie would've turned out with Lucas instead of Coppolla. Maybe, in this alternate universe, it'd be an experience that would make him embrace his indie filmmaker roots instead of all the SW blockbuster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schilkeman 957 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Lucas often says he's a visual guy and not much of a writer, but to my mind the proof is to the contrary. And I would say you have not paid close enough attention. But before I sound like He Who Must Not Be Named, let's just say we disagree and move on. https://www.starwarsringtheory.com 9 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Has anyone heard the story (urban legend?) that originally George Lucas was supposed to direct Apocalypse Now? I often wonder how that movie would've turned out with Lucas instead of Coppolla. Maybe, in this alternate universe, it'd be an experience that would make him embrace his indie filmmaker roots instead of all the SW blockbuster? It was to be much more satirical in nature, before Zoetrope imploded and he had to make something else. I think it worked out for the best. Bilbo, Mattris and Edmilson 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 12 minutes ago, Edmilson said: that originally George Lucas was supposed to direct Apocalypse Now? For once, that's not an embellishment. Lucas was supposed to direct it, and his vision for it was pretty much as he described: more "quick and dirty", satirical, quasi-documentary-like. Its attested to by many of Lucas' friends who were involved with the project. And certainly a lot of the thinking that went into Apocalypse Now during Lucas' tenure went into Star Wars. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: NOW, JUST A DAMN MINUTE!!!! Star Wars Is Better Than Everything; Indiana Jones Is Better Than Everything; Star Trek Is Better Than Everything; even The fucking Muppets Is Better Than Everything. They can't all be better than everything! Which one is better???!!!!! The Muppets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Jay said: Drax started the first one, not Justin Aren’t they the same person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 Not at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 They’re basically the same guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I’m pretty sure they’re the same person Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 I never found them to be terribly similar outside of eventually losing interest in expansions and preferring the OSTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Both love Twin Peaks; Both love Burton's Batman movies; Both love Independence Day (and hate the sequel); Both hate The Last Jedi due to political reasons more than filmic reasons; Both disliked the Joker movie; Both think Star Trek is better than everything Continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted April 10, 2023 Author Share Posted April 10, 2023 Most people here love Twin Peaks, ID4, Burton's Batman movies, and hated the Joker movie. I can certainly say that about myself! I didn't realize TLJ was a political film, but I don't really like any of the sequel movies and don't spend much time thinking about them And lots of people here love Star Trek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 i don't quite see what's political and to be hated simultaneously in TLJ. depiction of bad politics? depiction of good politics? whatever. the prequels are way more political even while sucking. the sequels are mostly braindead, and it hurts their worldbuilding and clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Jay said: Most people here love Go on... 1 hour ago, Jay said: Twin Peaks Never saw much of it, and what I did, wasn't really my thing. 1 hour ago, Jay said: ID4 Loved it! 1 hour ago, Jay said: Burton's Batman movies Both were OK. I prefer Nolans. 1 hour ago, Jay said: and hated the Joker movie A well-made film, but not a huge fan. Nihilistic and depressing. Not why I watch movies, especially comic books movies. 1 hour ago, Jay said: I didn't realize TLJ was a political film, but I don't really like any of the sequel movies and don't spend much time thinking about them I don't think it's an inherently political film, though I do think it reflects the political sensibilities of its director. 1 hour ago, Jay said: And lots of people here love Star Trek As they should. Through 2005, Star Trek was better than everything. Most things anyway. Well, at least some things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Both love Twin Peaks; Both love Burton's Batman movies; Both love Independence Day (and hate the sequel); Both hate The Last Jedi due to political reasons more than filmic reasons; Both disliked the Joker movie; Both think Star Trek is better than everything Continue. -Never seen it. -Don't care -Don't care. -It's ok. -Never seen it. -It's ok at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Going to check the rules to see if disliking or never seeing Twin Peaks is a bannable offense Schilkeman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,381 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, mstrox said: Going to check the rules to see if disliking or never seeing Twin Peaks is a bannable offense Should I be saying my goodbyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 should i bring cake in my last day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Leave the cake; bring the cannolis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 31 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said: I don't think it's an inherently political film, though I do think it reflects the political sensibilities of its director. This, and this impression got stronger the more one sees of Johnson's ouvre. So he uses the "The Force does not belong to the Jedi" - even though it kidna does - as a kind of shorthand of egalitarianism, and then the whole Canto Bight stuff is very much a critique of capitalism, war profiteering and some messaging about animal cruelty thrown-in for good measure Not that its a bad thing necessarily: Star Wars was political from the start with its Vietnam War parallels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 27 minutes ago, Chen G. said: This, and this impression got stronger the more one sees of Johnson's ouvre. So he uses the "The Force does not belong to the Jedi" - even though it kidna does - as a kind of shorthand of egalitarianism, and then the whole Canto Bight stuff is very much a critique of capitalism, war profiteering and some messaging about animal cruelty thrown-in for good measure One of many things I don't like about the film. Johnson, an arrogant, mediocre director (why does arrogance and mediocrity so often go hand in hand?), chose the penultimate chapter in a nine film saga to introduce his own agenda into the mix. It wasn't time to shake things up. That was the moment to fulfil expectations, not subvert them. If he wanted to do that, they should have given him one of the spin-off films. RJ's film was not about Star Wars, it was about RJ. That's why I prefer The Rise of Skywalker. It may be a bad film, but at least it's a bad Star Wars film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 I understand the sentiment, but for me The Last Jedi may well be Citizen Kane next to The Rise of Skywalker. DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 987 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Um, having seen some of his other movies, I sincerely doubt the notion he made TLJ about himself, seeing as the through line of the Blanc movies aren't about legends and heroism, and how people perceive them. You could certainly question the execution, yet I walk away from the movie more pondering what the end point is supposed to be, rather than being very thrilled at the ending like I was with KO and GO. I can understand some of RJ's decisions in how he chose to respond online might be difficult to not factor into your approach of the film, but then that just makes me wonder if people are incredibly selective in terms of when they decide they should kill the author in how they evaluate media, since that shit sure never mattered to me in the stuff I did see (besides annoying fanboys making me wish only the original SW existed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,689 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, HunterTech said: the Blanc movies aren't about legends and heroism Either is The Last Jedi. That's the problem. And yes, thematically, The Last Jedi has more in common with Knives Out than Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Jay said: And lots of people here love Star Trek Yeah, but only a handful, Drax and Gruesome included, think ST is better than anything. I'm not a fan myself. I have seen a few of the movies and some random episodes and have some fond memories of watching Enterprise (please don't yell at me) on DVD at age 12. But, by far, the only Trek thing I truly love (and think it's better than most things) is Jerry Goldsmith's score for The Motion Picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,342 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 45 minutes ago, Chen G. said: he uses the "The Force does not belong to the Jedi" - even though it kidna does - Does it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 11/04/2023 at 12:07 AM, A Farewell to Kings said: Does it though? What I mean is, unless you ignore the prequel trilogy (which Johnson is not doing) which turned the Force hereditary, then you can't really make the argument "The Force is for everyone" because its not: some people have it, some people just don't. Its not a skill a-la cooking in Ratatouile: its an ability. As a shorthand for egalitarianism, its a bad one. Similarly, there's what's clearly supposed to be a morally-compromising moment where we find out that the Resistance...buys weapons... Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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