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Star Wars is better than everything


Jay
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I SEE HIM TURNING THE LIGHTSABER TO STRIKE TRUE

AND KILL HIS TRUE ENEMY

Well, he was fun while he lasted. 

Anyhow, this has definitely been of stronger intrigue than TFA or Rogue One. For lack of a stronger description, it doesn't feel quite as much as a committee-conceived work, and more a flawed film conceived by a human being who has a specific aim here. 

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I like TLJ a little bit less than when I saw it, but I have always loved "Carrie Poppins".

 

Just spent two days in Disneyland.  Tomorrowland plays Star Wars music NON-STOP.  And not just "the hits".  I gotta tell you how wonderful it is to be walking by and hearing someone (not me) humming along to something more obscure like Luke and Leia or The Little People Work!

 

I can only imagine what Galaxy's Edge is going to be like.

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Read this text that I'm sending to the Internet to your eyes: it ruined Star Wars, ruined it! Never mind that the original was very different from what people expected and The Last Jedi followed that tradition by offering something new, it was a complete betrayal of Star Wars!

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9 hours ago, Margo Channing said:

People act like SW movies are meant to be masterpieces or something.

 

Because Empire Strikes Back is one.

 

Its not a great track record (one out of eight), but still...

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12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Because Empire Strikes Back is one.

 

Its not a great track record (one out of eight), but still...

 

Probably a fluke. After that many movies, probably best to save the heartache and just expect moderately okay movies.

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For the last few years I would say to friends, "A true Star Wars movie should be hard to recognize sometimes as Star Wars." I'd rather have a bunch of movies that try to do something a little weird and different and fumble on some of the execution, like The Last Jedi, than one movie like The Force Awakens. 

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8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I think there's room for both.

 

You're probably right, but I'm sick of the nostalgia force driving so many movies, video games, music etc. over the last decade or so. "By fans, for fans". So many things seem to be a tribute, or homage, or love letter. 

 

It's natural to be inspired by something, especially from a young age, and desire to tap into that in your own efforts. That's the path of human endeavor. George Lucas' inspirations for Star Wars are famous and abundant. But when you watch the final result, the way he channeled those inspirations and influences, it's something very much his own. What do I get when I see something like Super 8? A dude who loved Spielberg films growing up trying to make a Spielberg film, and it comes out like a milquetoast derivative of E.T.

16 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

From the way TLJ and Solo are being savaged, I would say Star Wars fans are the franchise's worst enemy right now.

 

Why are people savaging Solo? Because of its own downfalls as a film, or is it some nebulous attack on Star Wars the same way The Last Jedi was?

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5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

 

You're probably right, but I'm sick of the nostalgia force driving so many movies, video games, music etc. over the last decade or so. "By fans, for fans". So many things seem to be a tribute, or homage, or love letter. 

 

It's natural to be inspired by something, especially from a young age, and desire to tap into that in your own efforts. That's the path of human endeavor. George Lucas' inspirations for Star Wars are famous and abundant. But when you watch the final result, the way he channeled those inspirations and influences, it's something very much his own. What do I get when I see something like Super 8? A dude who loved Spielberg films growing up trying to make a Spielberg film, and it comes out like a milquetoast derivative of E.T.

 

Someone I knew once described Super 8 as "E.T. with attitude" and he was gushing over the movie too --- I was like "huh?" As opposed to E.T. had none? God that annoyed me.

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If fans supposedly hate the new movies, are the prequels now going to be considered better like when everyone started to say they love the Burton Batman movies after the Nolan trilogy ended?

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10 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

Why are people savaging Solo? Because of its own downfalls as a film, or is it some nebulous attack on Star Wars the same way The Last Jedi was?

 

The criticism I've been hearing was legitimate film criticism, not fandom-criticism, and the same is true of The Last Jedi.

 

1 minute ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

are the prequels now going to be considered better

 

Maybe Revenge of the Sith will get a fair shake in retrospect, but the other two - no.

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4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

The criticism I've been hearing was legitimate film criticism, not fandom-criticism, and the same is true of The Last Jedi.

 

I've heard legit criticism of The Last Jedi, and think there's extreme reactionism on the side of people who like the movie ("you only dislike it because it twisted with your expectations!"). That said, the amount of vitriol is genuinely eye-widening to me. People tearing up Rian Johnson as a person with such nasty insults. And even here on JWFan you have people treating the movie as an unmitigated dumpster fire that pisses all over Star Wars. 

 

And my question is why? What is it about The Last Jedi that was so iconoclastic or disrepectful to the past movies, that warrants those kinds of reactions? I genuinely want to know from someone who hates the movie and considers it a betrayal to Star Wars.

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16 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

If fans supposedly hate the new movies, are the prequels now going to be considered better like when everyone started to say they love the Burton Batman movies after the Nolan trilogy ended?

 

I think that trend has already been starting to gain momentum. Personally, I'll never defend those movies as good, but I'll always give Lucas respect for refusing to rest on his laurels.

 

EDIT: What the other Nick said.

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16 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Maybe Revenge of the Sith will get a fair shake in retrospect, but the other two - no.

 

No. Why so many people consider ROTS a good movie is really baffling to me. People seem to forget that 75% of this movie is just as hard to watch as AOTC, but I guess the (merciful) lack of love scenes puts it ahead.

 

People seem to like it because it’s "dark and brooding", but it’s so forced and nonsensical (Anakin killing little kids is a really cheap move, and Padme dying because she's "lost the will to live"? What does that even mean?) and the whole climax is so rushed, it really shows just how much of a waste the previous two episodes were.

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@Nick1066 that's very true.

 

Moreso than not retreading familiar plot points, I think credit goes to Lucas for, occasionally, pushing the envelope. 

 

I respect the hell out of him for making Revenge of the Sith PG-13, and a well-earned one, at that. Its as bold a move as anything in The Last Jedi, really.

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5 minutes ago, John said:

Why so many people consider ROTS a good movie is really baffling to me.

 

5 minutes ago, John said:

People like it because it’s "dark and brooding"

 

:conf:

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SOLO had some fun lines. I enjoyed Jon Favreau's Rio Durant. 

Han 

Spoiler

speaking Shriiiiiyyyywoooook

was also neat.

I can't remember what else, but it was a pretty good script from the Kasdan's.

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10 minutes ago, Batman's Diet Coke said:

It's a fun quotable popcorn space flick, like SW is supposed to be.

 

I mean, it has more entertainment value than the other two, but that's not saying much. I can watch it without getting high being a prerequisite.

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3 minutes ago, John said:

I mean, it has more entertainment value than the other two, but that's not saying much. I can watch it without getting high being a prerequisite.

It's pretty much the only prequel movie that has scenes you sort of feel make sense (story wise, entertainment wise, and cinematically). Order 66, Obi Wan vs Anakin are both things that went right with the movie I guess, so it made it superior to its predecessors ( at least the prequels).

 

That's why I like it. It felt like they were the closest in the entire trilogy to making a movie we wanted to see. Ideally, ROTS should have been the type of movie to come first in the prequel trilogy, with the divided Jedi and the developing Empire taking the rest. That way there wouldn't be such a gap in their that they are now trying to fill. 

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17 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Obi Wan vs Anakin

 

That was actually one of my issues with the film at the time: that all this drama, a lot of it very well crafted, leads to little more than a flashy and w-a-a-a-y too long and contrived an action scene. There needed to be some underlying dramatic current to it: Obi Wan being conflicted about killing Anakin, Anakin trying to get Obi Wan on his side, Padme trying to stop them and getting hurt in the process - something to propel it emotionally.

 

17 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

Ideally, ROTS should have been the type of movie to come first in the prequel trilogy

 

I'm of two minds about this: on the one hand, I think that part of the issue is that, by labeling the original Star Wars as IV,* Lucas committed to a prequel trilogy without knowing whether he'd be up for it. As it stands, his prequel trilogy could have been contained within two films just fine: The Phantom Menace does very little to push the story of the sextet forward. This meant that 80% of the substance of the trilogy is jammed into Revenge of the Sith, and it can't help but feel rushed or scattered at times.

 

Imagine, for instance, that we'd have a Dooku introduced in episode I so that we would register to his execution, and that Grievous would have been introduced in Episode II so that Obi Wan going after him wouldn't feel like a distraction on the part of the storyteller.

 

On the other hand, if there's a thing I like about the earlier two films is that we do get to see the Republic in peace times, so that we can appreciate how far things have deteriorated in the original Star Wars. Its not so much world-building but an element of the drama.

 

_________

* This having happened after the fact, of course. At some point in time, he was going to call it Episode III, which probably would have benefited the prequels.

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

That was actually one of my issues with the film at the time: that all this drama, a lot of it very well crafted, leads to little more than a flashy and w-a-a-a-y too long and contrived an action scene. There needed to be some underlying dramatic current to it: Obi Wan being conflicted about killing Anakin, Anakin trying to get Obi Wan on his side, Padme trying to stop them and getting hurt in the process - something to propel it emotionally.

 

 

I'm of two minds about this: on the one hand, I think that part of the issue is that, by labeling the original Star Wars as IV,* Lucas committed to a prequel trilogy without knowing whether he'd be up for it. As it stands, his prequel trilogy could have been contained within two films just fine: The Phantom Menace does very little to push the story of the sextet forward. This meant that 80% of the substance of the trilogy is jammed into Revenge of the Sith, and it can't help but feel rushed or scattered at times.

 

Imagine, for instance, that we'd have a Dooku introduced in episode I so that we would register to his execution, and that Grievous would have been introduced in Episode II so that Obi Wan going after him wouldn't feel like a distraction on the part of the storyteller.

 

On the other hand, if there's a thing I like about the earlier two films is that we do get to see the Republic in peace times, so that we can appreciate how far things have deteriorated in the original Star Wars. Its not so much world-building but an element of the drama.

 

_________

* This having happened after the fact, of course. At some point in time, he was going to call it Episode III, which probably would have benefited the prequels.

Fair.

 

AND

 

Well, yes. But I mean that ROTS is the type of movie that would have been good to start a prequel trilogy.

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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Any SW film is anyway 1000x more enjoyable than Star Trek.

 

Anyone can be wrong. It's your consistency at it that makes you stand out from the crowd!

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50 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Anyone can be wrong. It's your consistency at it that makes you stand out from the crowd!

2b5w24.jpg

Original meme by The Illustrious Jerry via imgflip.com.

 

You can probably tell I've been making the most of TLJ on rent.

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16 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Apologies, I meant to write a 1000.000x !

 

81cY.gif

 

 

 

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Come to think of it, it's funny how much Giacchino's Rogue One gets lambasted, yet I never really see any mention (positive or negative) for his Star Trek music. Though that probably goes with the fact that the movies themselves seemed to have been forgotten. 

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The first score generated a ton of discussion (there's like a 20 page discussion of it, actually I think that score got 2 thread), and then the second one got a lot, too. But yea, it really does seem after the third film all discussion of the reboot franchise kinda stalled.  Even the Tarantino / fourth film news didn't generate a LOT of discussion

 

I still think his ST scores are among his best blockbuster work

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Yeah, I figured I probably missed that, but still, in comparison, Rogue One still gets brought up a lot with the whole WORST STAR WARS SCORE EVER nonsense (even if that's technically correct). Whereas I never really see his Star Trek stuff get brought up in WORST STAR TREK SCORE EVER rants. It's probably just me though, as I'd think having to follow up Goldsmith would be infinitely more terrifying than following up Williams.

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