karelm 3,077 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It has been a few years since I listened to Krull by James Horner and I'm struck by just how much I enjoy it. Part of this might be nostalgia, but I am curious what others think of this score - is it too derivative of JW Star Wars style or more in the style of Horner thinking that "I am better than JW, let him imitate me!" Anyway, curious if this is considered somewhat of a Horner masterpiece or derivative imitation. I find myself surprised by the quality and thematic material frequently employing aleatoric or otherwise unexpected devices. To me, it is really good if you like Star Trek II and Horner in his golden age.There is this detailed analysis of the score if not already familiar with the details of this complex sci-fi action/adventure/fantasy score from the 1980's:http://www.filmscorerundowns.net/horner/cuekrull.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 10,426 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I like it. Can't really say more than that. I have the 2-disc set, so I'll give it (them) a spin, soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Love it.+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Love it.+1Bill Wrobel's breakdown of the instrumentation is fascinating:Reel 9M1 (Enter Spider's Lair). 30pp., 120 bars. Microtonal bells,two cimbaloms (dulcimers), 2 harps (sweep jazz brushes over higheststrings), ditto 3 pianos, 2 synths (electronic ocarina like a weird wind),20 Sop women's choir, strings ad lib. Two C tpts, two B-flat tpts. 6horns. Code 000. Destruct. 0. and karelm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 340 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I listened to it a few months back for the first time...as much as I like Horner I didn't find it as engaging like The Wrath Of Khan or The Search For Spock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've tried to get into Horner's ST scores, but it's difficult if you find Kirk's theme annoying as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 3,077 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 I must say, though I completely enjoy listening to Krull right now (I'm on the "Ride of the Firemares" track) I find it excellent but it completely pales to JW's Asteriod Field from Empire Strikes Back which is sort of the quintessential sci-fi exciting action track of early 1980s. Really, what can compare to that sense of velocity, adventure, heroism, and danger? Perhaps I shouldn't compare a very good work to a masterpiece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've tried to get into Horner's ST scores, but it's difficult if you find Kirk's theme annoying as hell.Not balanced out for you by Spock's theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I've tried to get into Horner's ST scores, but it's difficult if you find Kirk's theme annoying as hell.Not balanced out for you by Spock's theme?S'all right, but I'd rather Horner had Goldsmith's themes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 3,077 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Wow, on the negative side, I just listened to Colywn theme and is that derivative of Goldsmith's Ilia (or is that Leia) or what? And the chorus is so out of tune. I have to assume they were recorded without the orchestra so just don't match. And the fake 1980s reverb ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Horner's early scores are really plagued by bad production values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Indeed, especially the early choral recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah, the recording studios sound really dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It sounds a heck of a lot better than Wallin's recordings.Wow, on the negative side, I just listened to Colywn theme and is that derivative of Goldsmith's Ilia (or is that Leia) or what?No, it sounds derivative of Spock's theme..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It sounds a heck of a lot better than Wallin's recordings.As mixer of engineer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'll leave you to correct it to whatever you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well, he was a bloody good mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If he was, I have not heard his good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I never had an issue with Wallin until he started doing Giacchino's stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I have never heard a good Wallin*Star Trek 2 and 3, almost all of Giacchino's scores, Moonraker all sound terrible.*Well, Most of the Bond scores sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karelm 3,077 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Is it possible that the "sound" of the times was bad? The music seems excellent (well, except for the overtly derivative parts) but the mix sounds very dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 well, except for the overtly derivative parts.You would do well to accept that all of Horner's works are derivative in some way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I have never heard a good Wallin*Star Trek 1 and 2, almost all of Giacchino's scores, Moonraker all sound terrible.*Well, Most of the Bond scores sound good.Star Trek 1 as in Jerry's Star Trek? Because I definitely disagree there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Dagnabbit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If he was, I have not heard his good stuff.Oh, I'm sure you have. COOL HAND LUKE, BULLITT, DIRTY HARRY, MAGNUM FORCE, KING KONG, THE BLACK HOLE, TAXI DRIVER, OCTOPUSSY to THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS, ROBOCOP, INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Octo sounds thin and terrible, Living Daylights and A view to a Kill is alright, TLC is decent.Most of his bad mixes make the brass sound "marshmellowy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,974 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 ROBOCOP and ST:TP (especially the Main Title) have some of the most brilliant brass I've ever heard. Great examples of punchy, close-miking. Nothing muddy about them whatsoever. Love how the horns sound in KING KONG, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,436 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I consider TMP a Botnick score.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C 468 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think it's Horner's finest achievement. I think the quality of the music still holds up -- unlike Wrath of Khan (which I loved up until a few years ago) -- the depth and complexity of the score itself is noteworthy. I notice some minor similarities to Williams' SW scores, but the score is undeniably its own thing."Ride of the Firemares" is Horner's long-lined writing at his best -- and I never ever get tired of listening to it. The love theme is overwhelmingly rapturous, and its usage throughout the score is quite effective. It really elevates the movie from sloppy 1980s fantasy/sci-fi mix into something watchable.I'm surprised Sony hasn't remade the film yet, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,801 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Oh this is one of Horner's best although a bit exhausting listen I find. The brass playing is just ridiculously breathless and enthusiastic in the main theme. I should take another listen since it has been a while.P.S. Avoid the film at all costs. Better to let the music play as a wonderful tone poem without those awkward images from the silly film saturating your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 10,426 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 And the chorus is so out of tune. It's probably Horner's fault, after all, he did have the 'flu' while conducting it.Horner's early scores are really plagued by bad production values.Are you joking???!!! "Brainstorm" is one of the very best recorded scores, I have ever heard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I love the score to Krull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,647 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Though it sounds a bit too old-fashioned to now (with Strauss being the main culprit), it's wonderfully written, with a vigour and energy that has not many matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,449 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I love Horner, but haven't a clue what this score sounds like. It's been decades since I saw the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It sounds like 80's Horner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,449 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah, it's not completely true when I say I haven't a clue. The themes and melodies I don't recall, but I remember the sound of the orchestra and its brass. It was very romantic and sweeping high adventure. Is it the LSO? If I gave the movie a watch the music might come flooding back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,647 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It's music better experienced without the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yes it is the LSO.How is the movie Lee? Bad I hear, but in a good way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,449 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It's sort of like Willow without the midget. Kids would love it, but I probably couldn't get through it comfortably now. I reckon you would enjoy it for what it is if you have never seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 If I recall correctly Neil hates and mocked the movie while Dani thought it was great and asked Neil to just leave it alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,647 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It's actually much more abstract design-wise. Though it is the worse movie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,680 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think it's Horner's finest achievement. I think the quality of the music still holds up -- unlike Wrath of Khan (which I loved up until a few years ago) -- the depth and complexity of the score itself is noteworthy. I notice some minor similarities to Williams' SW scores, but the score is undeniably its own thing."Ride of the Firemares" is Horner's long-lined writing at his best -- and I never ever get tired of listening to it. The love theme is overwhelmingly rapturous, and its usage throughout the score is quite effective. It really elevates the movie from sloppy 1980s fantasy/sci-fi mix into something watchable.I'm surprised Sony hasn't remade the film yet, to be honest.What changed your mind about TWOK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,713 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I also think it's Horner's best score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 It's very good, but it's so feverish and grand that it never really lets up.I own the old 2 CD Supertracks release but never listen to the whole album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 10,426 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I think it's Horner's finest achievement. I think the quality of the music still holds up -- unlike Wrath of Khan (which I loved up until a few years ago) -- the depth and complexity of the score itself is noteworthy. I notice some minor similarities to Williams' SW scores, but the score is undeniably its own thing."Ride of the Firemares" is Horner's long-lined writing at his best -- and I never ever get tired of listening to it. The love theme is overwhelmingly rapturous, and its usage throughout the score is quite effective. It really elevates the movie from sloppy 1980s fantasy/sci-fi mix into something watchable.I'm surprised Sony hasn't remade the film yet, to be honest.What changed your mind about TWOK?"The Search For Spock". "Krull" isn't a bad movie, by any standards. It tries to put on screen things that had never been seen before. It just seems a bit "composite". Still, there's fine support from the likes of Freddie Jones, Francesca Annis, Bernard Breslaw, David Bately, Todd ("flippin' 'eck, Tucker!) Carthy, Liam Neeson, and, especially, one of my fave Brits: Alun Armstrong.Worth seeing...once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,449 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I also think it's Horner's best scoreFor me it's either Aliens or Titanic. Probably Aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 10,426 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Nah! "Brainstorm" (then "The Name Of The Rose") stamps all over anything he has ever done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,449 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I haven't heard those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 True Horner connaisseurs hold those 2 in high regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now