SCORE: Star Trek Nemesis (Deluxe Edition)

[Tallguy 4,124]

12 hours ago, johnmillions said:

I was disappointed by the reuse of the Quest theme from Star Trek V.

 

Did you have the same disappointment when it was re-used in First Contact and Insurrection?

[johnmillions 13]

4 hours ago, Tallguy said:

17 hours ago, johnmillions said:

I was disappointed by the reuse of the Quest theme from Star Trek V.

 

Did you have the same disappointment when it was re-used in First Contact and Insurrection?

Not really. I don't mind that it's used in TNG movies, but I do mind how and when it's used in Nemesis.

 

In Insurrection, Goldsmith uses the Quest theme only minimally. In First Contact, the Quest theme relates more to the crew's actions than their feelings.

 

What bothers me in Nemesis is that Quest theme is used for emotional effect (during the wedding reception, following Data's death, etc.). To me, the Quest theme is more about Starfleet duty and accomplishing some mission. It wasn't written with TNG cast in mind, but the Quest theme is more or less "generic" Starfleet and, therefore, appropriately used in any Star Trek movie. It's that Goldsmith himself misused (repurposed?) his own Quest theme. 

 

Goldsmith wrote a separate theme for the bond between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in Star Trek V. Why not a new theme for TNG "family"?

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

Goldsmith already wrote a Motif for Starfleet, the rumbling Motif from the opening of "The Enterprise" from TMP shows up in The Argo and elsewhere.

[Tallguy 4,124]

1 hour ago, johnmillions said:

In Insurrection, Goldsmith uses the Quest theme only minimally. In First Contact, the Quest theme relates more to the crew's actions than their feelings.

 

In First Contact it is the very first music that we hear after the Courage theme. It's almost always played with the FC theme. It's the opening of Welcome Aboard.

 

In Insurrection it's used almost as the love theme and as underscore for Geordi getting his sight back.

 

In Nemesis it's always associated with the crew, isn't it? How much more Starfleet can that be?

 

I always thought it was fun that this theme is repurposed in each of his films.

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

36 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

In Insurrection it's used almost as the love theme and as underscore for Geordi getting his sight back.

Nah, that's just it's soundalike.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

On 19/5/2024 at 4:40 PM, johnmillions said:

Thank you for your insightful post, Blumenkohl! Initially, I shared some of your original feelings toward the score. 

 

I was disappointed by the reuse of the Quest theme from Star Trek V. I lamented the lack of a theme for the Romulans (I love Ron Jones's Romulan theme from TNG). And I didn't understand the new material in "A New Ending." It seemed like it came out of nowhere! 

 

Of the Goldsmith Star Trek scores, Nemesis was the one I most wished Goldsmith could have a "do-over". Years later, it still is, but I have come to appreciate the Nemesis score more.

 

Regarding the music for the end credits:

I think what comes after the initial restatement of Shinzon's theme (beginning at 3:35) is the closest thing we'll ever have to a Goldsmith Picard theme. I interpret this development of Shinzon's theme to symbolize the noble Shinzon that could have been had he lived a life more like Picard's. This is the musical manifestation of a Shinzon who lived up to his potential to be moral and just--a clone of Picard not just in genetics but also in upbringing and demeanor. Basically, this is a Shinzon who " grew up" to be Picard. 

 

Shinzon: "Look in the mirror, and see yourself." 

Picard: "Shinzon, I am mirror for you as well."

 

That music from "A New Ending" is Shinzon looking in the mirror and seeing Picard. 

 

Beautifully put, last line of your post gave me the goosebumps! You're right. Once the music shifts from the woe-is-me Shinzon theme to the more soaring romantic bridge, that's Goldsmith's Picard theme. The segment (without the woe-is-me Shinzon theme breaking it up) would be right at home in Chateau Picard, with Picard tasting his grapes by day then looking up at the stars by night and dreaming like the explorer that he is!  

 

It's a fitting, delicate, lush theme for Picard who is the latest (and hopefully not the last) in a long line of heroic, learned, and civilized men dreamed up during a civilization's golden age (post-Soviet but pre-9/11 USA in this case). Contrast with the post-golden age flawed gloomy heroes and their simplistic, brutish themes *cough* Batman *cough*!

[johnmillions 13]

Re-listening to the Deluxe Edition and re-reading the liner notes, I was reminded of two themes unique to Nemesis:

1. The first is associated with "The Argo" (and reprised at the end of "Odds and Ends").
2. The second is prominent in "Battle Stations", and "encapsulat[es] Picard's sense of duty and his inherent nobility" according to Jeff Bond. 

So, along with Shinzon's theme, is that three new themes Goldsmith wrote for this film? 

 

 

Bond speaks of the reuse of the Quest theme, that "wistful motive" from The Final Frontier: "Goldsmith repurposed it for the Next Generation films to signify Starfleet's humanistic purpose. In Nemesis, the motive speaks to Picard's connections to his crew and his sadness at the idea of losing them..."

 

I would've preferred that Goldsmith modify his new "Battle Stations" theme to represent Picard's bond with his crew. A gentler rendition could have accompanied the wedding scene and the crew as they mourn the loss of Data.

 

I understand, however, that there's a certain amount of nostalgia associated with the Quest theme that any new theme couldn't beat. I'd guess that's why Goldsmith used it as he did in Nemesis. 

 

16 hours ago, BLUMENKOHL said:

Beautifully put, last line of your post gave me the goosebumps! You're right. Once the music shifts from the woe-is-me Shinzon theme to the more soaring romantic bridge, that's Goldsmith's Picard theme. 

I also like Jeff Bond's interpretation regarding the end title: "[Goldsmith] created a full, expressive rendition of the Shinzon theme with a heartbreaking second subject for French horns. Unlike anything heard previously, it plays as an elegy for the man that Shinzon might have been, representing Picard's hopes for the clone..." 

 

Earlier in his Nemesis liner notes, Bond writes, "Goldsmith hints at the lyrical potential of Shinzon's theme in 'Ideals', when Picard and the clone discuss a potential peace agreement between the Romulan Empire and the Federation. Although Shinzon deliberately misleads Picard about his intentions, Goldsmith's music suggests the possibilities for understand and cooperation - perhaps even a family relationship - between the two men." 

 

Again referencing the Shinzon theme, Bond notes that (in that instance) "the melody [is] more melancholy than malevolent, depicting Shinzon as a lost opportunity." 

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

Isn't the Battle Stations theme, just a variation of the TMP/TNG theme?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

On 2/6/2024 at 4:12 PM, The Great Gonzales said:

Isn't the Battle Stations theme, just a variation of the TMP/TNG theme?

The rhythmic construct is similar. The melody is of the same family, but it’s different. 

We need one of them musical analysts to tell us what’s happening here.  Where is @Dixon Hill when you need him? 

It ain’t the same ting, but it be. 

[The Great Gonzales 6,048]

2 hours ago, BLUMENKOHL said:

The rhythmic construct is similar. The melody is of the same family, but it’s different. 

We need one of them musical analysts to tell us what’s happening here.  Where is @Dixon Hill when you need him? 

It ain’t the same ting, but it be. 

I mean, if it was the same, it wouldn't  be a variation now would it?

[Andy 5,005]

On 1/6/2024 at 9:48 PM, BLUMENKOHL said:

It's a fitting, delicate, lush theme for Picard who is the latest (and hopefully not the last) in a long line of heroic, learned, and civilized men dreamed up during a civilization's golden age (post-Soviet but pre-9/11 USA in this case). Contrast with the post-golden age flawed gloomy heroes and their simplistic, brutish themes *cough* Batman *cough*!

 

This resonated with me.  I've reflected on these timestamps in popular culture reflective of history.  More on the 9/11 than the post-Soviet.  It's a simple, but profound observation of two events that shaped the zeitgeist.  Thank you for putting it that way.