Williams to conduct "The Book Thief" at pre-Oscar Film Music ceremony on February 27th

[Richard Penna 3,677]

The music for Gravity is flat out terrible. Before being called out as a Williams fanboy, I say that as the one who has 163 artists in itunes. I even go out of my way top get 1 video game track if I like it

I wouldn't even save a track of this for one of my film music compilations

Then you have blatantly not listened to every track, as there are two tracks solely comprised of a solo piano, and entirely melodic.

I admit I haven't listened to every track in TBT, but I'm not denying there is some interesting material to be found.

Well, it seems I have to remind people I don't have Williams scores lined up in a loop to listen for the rest of my life when I trash something. In this case I really believe the Gravity score is shit

Comes down to taste. Can't really debate beyond that point.

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

That 'generic RCP' anthem is better than Battle of the Heroes.

Yeah...

[Marcus 390]

Loved the little tweaks in Williams' "Book Thief" suite.

Although the music for "Gravity" does little for me, I'm very pleased to see Joe Trapanese on the podium! It seems like only yesterday we were at MSM (Manhattan School of Music) together, and knowing what a film music (and Williams!) fan he was, I'm sure this event must have been a great joy and triumph for him.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Very interesting to hear about JW breaking his usual "rule" for this movie and reading the script before taking the assignment. It looks like he pursued the project just out of his own instinct for good dramatic material to write interesting music.

The music for Gravity is flat out terrible. Before being called out as a Williams fanboy, I say that as the one who has 163 artists in itunes. I even go out of my way top get 1 video game track if I like it

I wouldn't even save a track of this for one of my film music compilations

Then you have blatantly not listened to every track, as there are two tracks solely comprised of a solo piano, and entirely melodic.

I admit I haven't listened to every track in TBT, but I'm not denying there is some interesting material to be found.

Sorry, on a purely musical level there is NO comparison between the two works. And it's not just about "technical" knowledge vs. improv, nor a simple matter of taste. Williams is really the last of a disappearing breed, i.e. composers who apply their own dramatic instinct to the movie narrative to produce a musically coherent piece of work that makes sense in itself, both within and outside the film's borders. Price's work for Gravity has its own musical sense, but it works mainly (if not only) on a pure superficial level, i.e. heightening tension and anxiety with some (clever) musical tricks, because that's what the composer was asked to do by the director, of course. Within the movie, the music has much of its own sense, but when listened outside, sorry, it just doesn't stand up. And heard live in concert setting, like these clips show, the comparison it's even clearer. Gravity sounds like good, effective film music, with nods and steals from a variety of sources (the huge climactic cluster crescendo sounds like a rip-off of Beatles' A Day in The Life), while The Book Thief is more akin to a newly-discovered suite composed by Brahms, or even an unpublished Bernard Herrmann's concert piece.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Very interesting to hear about JW breaking his usual "rule" for this movie and reading the script before taking the assignment. It looks like he pursued the project just out of his own instinct for good dramatic material to write interesting music.

The music for Gravity is flat out terrible. Before being called out as a Williams fanboy, I say that as the one who has 163 artists in itunes. I even go out of my way top get 1 video game track if I like it

I wouldn't even save a track of this for one of my film music compilations

Then you have blatantly not listened to every track, as there are two tracks solely comprised of a solo piano, and entirely melodic.

I admit I haven't listened to every track in TBT, but I'm not denying there is some interesting material to be found.

Sorry, on a purely musical level there is NO comparison between the two works. And it's not just about "technical" knowledge vs. improv, nor a simple matter of taste. Williams is really the last of a disappearing breed, i.e. composers who apply their own dramatic instinct to the movie narrative to produce a musically coherent piece of work that makes sense in itself, both within and outside the film's borders. Price's work for Gravity has its own musical sense, but it works mainly (if not only) on a pure superficial level, i.e. heightening tension and anxiety with some (clever) musical tricks, because that's what the composer was asked to do by the director, of course. Within the movie, the music has much of its own sense, but when listened outside, sorry, it just doesn't stand up. And heard live in concert setting, like these clips show, the comparison it's even clearer. Gravity sounds like good, effective film music, with nods and steals from a variety of sources (the huge climactic cluster crescendo sounds like a rip-off of Beatles' A Day in The Life), while The Book Thief is more akin to a newly-discovered suite composed by Brahms, or even an unpublished Bernard Herrmann's concert piece.

Nail on the head.

[Richard Penna 3,677]

Williams is really the last of a disappearing breed, i.e. composers who apply their own dramatic instinct to the movie narrative to produce a musically coherent piece of work that makes sense in itself, both within and outside the film's borders. Price's work for Gravity has its own musical sense, but it works mainly (if not only) on a pure superficial level, i.e. heightening tension and anxiety with some (clever) musical tricks, because that's what the composer was asked to do by the director, of course. Within the movie, the music has much of its own sense, but when listened outside, sorry, it just doesn't stand up. And heard live in concert setting, like these clips show, the comparison it's even clearer. Gravity sounds like good, effective film music, with nods and steals from a variety of sources (the huge climactic cluster crescendo sounds like a rip-off of Beatles' A Day in The Life), while The Book Thief is more akin to a newly-discovered suite composed by Brahms, or even an unpublished Bernard Herrmann's concert piece.

You're trying to apply the usual 'Williams is the last of his kind' argument to a case where you simply have two scores which address completely different requirements.

I know that when I saw Gravity, there were 3 or 4 occasions when I thought, "I hope this is on the CD".

I sort of like the 'Jellyfish' motif from TBT, but apart from that, I haven't really found anything that does much for me.

Sorry, but it is taste, in large part. (remembering that as a listener, I don't care how technically proficient it is). Please remember that I'm not criticising TBT outside of saying it's not for me. I just feel that (as usual), another composer's work is being decimated by those who similarly decide it's not for them.

(all of which by the way, demonstrates why you can't choose one best score - they're all too different)

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

Its going to win the oscar, so let us decimate it a little!

[Incanus 5,713]

And Price even has such a common name, nothing exotic or unpronouncable.

[King Mark 3,626]

Hanz Zimmer must be pissed he delegated it to one of his clones

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Price's score doesn't heighten the anxiety and tension, it creates it. I don't understand how music that accentuates the emotions on screen is superficial, since that's what all film music does.

The Book Thief is just another half baked Williams score.

[King Mark 3,626]

wow

[Incanus 5,713]

Price's score doesn't heighten the anxiety and tension, it creates it. I don't understand how music that accentuates the emotions on screen is superficial, since that's what all film music does.

The Book Thief is just another half baked Williams score.

We are really making progress here I see.

[King Mark 3,626]

Gravity would have worked just as well without music

[Koray Savas 2,251]

With nothing to drown out Bullock's annoying voice? Hardly.

[King Mark 3,626]

I don't remember the music at all. It might as well have been loud sound effects

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Price's score doesn't heighten the anxiety and tension, it creates it.

It works in tandem with the camerawork, CF effects, editing and performances of the actors, but it's not the sole source of tension. It's not like the driving scene in PSYCHO, where the difference between music and no music is like light and day.

I don't understand how music that accentuates the emotions on screen is superficial, since that's what all film music does.

You're missing Maurizio's point. He's talking about the score's internal structure, how well it can stand on its own two feet.

And no, not all film music accentuates the emotions on screen. Sometimes it plays against the drama, other times it's deliberately alienating. But most of it all it can provide subtext, something that is not present (or clearly present) in a scene.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Everything is in the images. However deeply hidden it is is irrelevant, the music is there to heighten it, play off of it, do something with it. In that sense it is always accentuating the image.

[Kühni 485]

.

[crocodile 7,991]

What I DON'T get about Gravity score is that it is just as shameless and cheap in its manipulation as most critics accuse Williams of being in his recent works. If it's bad in one case, why not here? It can't be orchestra in a its most traditional idiom that makes the difference, can it?

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

Williams is not the last of his kind, and the sooner that fatalist attitude disappears, the better it will be for film music.

Very interesting to hear about JW breaking his usual "rule" for this movie and reading the script before taking the assignment. It looks like he pursued the project just out of his own instinct for good dramatic material to write interesting music.

The music for Gravity is flat out terrible. Before being called out as a Williams fanboy, I say that as the one who has 163 artists in itunes. I even go out of my way top get 1 video game track if I like it

I wouldn't even save a track of this for one of my film music compilations

Then you have blatantly not listened to every track, as there are two tracks solely comprised of a solo piano, and entirely melodic.

I admit I haven't listened to every track in TBT, but I'm not denying there is some interesting material to be found.

Sorry, on a purely musical level there is NO comparison between the two works. And it's not just about "technical" knowledge vs. improv, nor a simple matter of taste. Williams is really the last of a disappearing breed, i.e. composers who apply their own dramatic instinct to the movie narrative to produce a musically coherent piece of work that makes sense in itself, both within and outside the film's borders. Price's work for Gravity has its own musical sense, but it works mainly (if not only) on a pure superficial level, i.e. heightening tension and anxiety with some (clever) musical tricks, because that's what the composer was asked to do by the director, of course. Within the movie, the music has much of its own sense, but when listened outside, sorry, it just doesn't stand up. And heard live in concert setting, like these clips show, the comparison it's even clearer. Gravity sounds like good, effective film music, with nods and steals from a variety of sources (the huge climactic cluster crescendo sounds like a rip-off of Beatles' A Day in The Life), while The Book Thief is more akin to a newly-discovered suite composed by Brahms, or even an unpublished Bernard Herrmann's concert piece.

So one is a Beatles rip off, and the other a Brahms/Herrmann rip off?

[The Dark Trilogy 39]

Very interesting to hear about JW breaking his usual "rule" for this movie and reading the script before taking the assignment. It looks like he pursued the project just out of his own instinct for good dramatic material to write interesting music.

The music for Gravity is flat out terrible. Before being called out as a Williams fanboy, I say that as the one who has 163 artists in itunes. I even go out of my way top get 1 video game track if I like it

I wouldn't even save a track of this for one of my film music compilations

Then you have blatantly not listened to every track, as there are two tracks solely comprised of a solo piano, and entirely melodic.

I admit I haven't listened to every track in TBT, but I'm not denying there is some interesting material to be found.

Sorry, on a purely musical level there is NO comparison between the two works. And it's not just about "technical" knowledge vs. improv, nor a simple matter of taste. Williams is really the last of a disappearing breed, i.e. composers who apply their own dramatic instinct to the movie narrative to produce a musically coherent piece of work that makes sense in itself, both within and outside the film's borders. Price's work for Gravity has its own musical sense, but it works mainly (if not only) on a pure superficial level, i.e. heightening tension and anxiety with some (clever) musical tricks, because that's what the composer was asked to do by the director, of course. Within the movie, the music has much of its own sense, but when listened outside, sorry, it just doesn't stand up. And heard live in concert setting, like these clips show, the comparison it's even clearer. Gravity sounds like good, effective film music, with nods and steals from a variety of sources (the huge climactic cluster crescendo sounds like a rip-off of Beatles' A Day in The Life), while The Book Thief is more akin to a newly-discovered suite composed by Brahms, or even an unpublished Bernard Herrmann's concert piece.

Amen.

Everything is in the images. However deeply hidden it is is irrelevant, the music is there to heighten it, play off of it, do something with it. In that sense it is always accentuating the image.

Nonsense. Totally nonsense. Good film music is more than a carriage of movies. That's the difference between The Book Thief and Gravity.

"The real challenge of composing music for films is to write a score that works brilliantly in the film and also has a life on it's own. It stands by itself." - Jerry Goldsmith

Absolutely right, Mr. Goldsmith!

[Nik 10]

Just wanted to chime to say that folks insisting that Gravity is merely ripping off this or that probably don't consider the Jaws theme as ripping off the fourth movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony, but a John Williams hater would probably hold tightly to that opinion. I don't think either score is a cheap pastiche or copy or is ripping anything off, but that's just my subjective opinion. Not trying to start any fights or anything.

p.s. I don't think that Gravity is in the same league as Jaws.

[King Mark 3,626]

You need to tone it down untill you reach 100 posts

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Having an opinion requires 1,000 John Williams Points.

[Incanus 5,713]

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[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,713]

Williams is not the last of his kind

+1

After that, you lost me with the "the disappearance of that fatalist attitude can only be a good thing for film music" bullshit.

Actually he is one of the last giants of film music but orchestral film music didn't start (contrary to the popular belief) with him nor does it stop with him.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

And there will surely be more giants of film music.

[Incanus 5,713]

And there will surely be more giants of film music.

None! The Golden Age is behind us, the age of rust and ashes is upon us! Those who shall come after are lesser children of greater sires. Alas woe to us to see such an age!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Everything is in the images. However deeply hidden it is is irrelevant, the music is there to heighten it, play off of it, do something with it. In that sense it is always accentuating the image.

Nonsense. Totally nonsense. Good film music is more than a carriage of movies. That's the difference between The Book Thief and Gravity.

"The real challenge of composing music for films is to write a score that works brilliantly in the film and also has a life on it's own. It stands by itself." - Jerry Goldsmith

Absolutely right, Mr. Goldsmith!

So film composers are just failed classical composers? Fair enough.

[The Dark Trilogy 39]

Sorry, I cannot understand what are you talking about. What has your post to do with this issue?

I don't see the connection.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Just wanted to chime to say that folks insisting that Gravity is merely ripping off this or that probably don't consider the Jaws theme

The JAWS theme is more than just the 2 note motif.

[Nik 10]

Mr. Shark: I entirely agree! I merely meant to convey how someone might erroniously generalize that such was the case.

King Mark: You're hilarious.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

It's ok, you can tell him he's an ass.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

KM's a walking gag reel.

[King Mark 3,626]

The new lead into Visitor of Himmel Street is beautiful. It's too bad Williams comes up with ideas after the OST is released in the past few movies he's scored.

We have a list of concert versions we need in studio quality sound

The only one that doesn't improve on the OST is War Horse Suite

[crocodile 7,991]

Just caught up with it. I love the idea Williams included the snippet of Revealing the Secret material. It's such a magical, almost Herrmanesque, moment in the score and makes this suite even better than the final album track.

Karol