Steven Spielberg’s West Side Story (2021)

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Movie looks good.  Looking forward to it.

[Holko 9,491]

Didn't look interesting to me at all beside that shot with the gangs and Spielberg's credit. Those colours and lighting, bleh.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Gen-Zs would see the name Steven Spielberg and be like "who?"

[SilverTrumpet 638]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Especially when his partner in crime for 40+ years is the greatest living film composer and isn't even involved.

 

and double especially when Williams was so close to Bernstein. I'm sure he'd want to take a crack at arranging his music for film. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

 

First thing I thought.

 

The original West Side Story is fine. The original Shakespeare, even better. Looks too slick, too generic. Like even more of an assembly line product than his other recent films. And once again featuring Kamiński's annoying, soft photography that's made all of Spielberg's recent output look the same.

 

Quite possibly the first Spielberg film I'll skip altogether.

[crumbs 14,287]

36 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

 

and double especially when Williams was so close to Bernstein. I'm sure he'd want to take a crack at arranging his music for film. 

 

Didn't he perform on the original film's sessions as a pianist?

 

Interesting that Williams isn't involved. I'm not completely sure what the post-production schedule was but I don't see why he couldn't have started working on WSS after finishing TROS. I doubt it would take him more than a month to arrange a score that already exists.

 

26 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

And once again featuring Kamiński's annoying, soft photography that's made all of Spielberg's recent output look the same.

 

Spielberg is in dire need of a new cinematographer. I get why he sticks with Kaminski; he shoots fast, the visuals are slick, and he slots straight into the 'assembly line' production schedule Spielberg desires.

 

Previously the stylised/glossy look worked a treat on scifi films like AI and MR, and the gritty/textured look was perfect for TLW/SL/SPR/Munich, but it's an anachronism here. Their films are increasingly artificial and stylised now, almost homogeneous regardless of genre.

 

Certainly a far cry from the grounded, realistic photography of his 70s/80s masterpieces.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

I've just seen the trailer. I think I'll save my hard-earned, and watch the original (among the greatest films ever made!), again.

If there is one film that does not need to be remade, it's WEST SIDE STORY.

[Jay 37,267]

5 hours ago, crumbs said:

Interesting that Williams isn't involved. I'm not completely sure what the post-production schedule was but I don't see why he couldn't have started working on WSS after finishing TROS. I doubt it would take him more than a month to arrange a score that already exists.

 

Musicals are done in the reverse way from a "regular" movie that has a score written and recorded after filming.  For a musical, you have to record all the music first, so the actors can lip sync to it on set.

 

David Newman was announced in February 2019, ahead of filming, which took place from Jul-Sep 2019

 

Williams was deep in TROS during all this.

By the time he was all done with TROS in December of 2019, he theoretically could have arranged some of the old music to conform to the cut as Spielberg was shaping it, but why pay JW to do that especially when you've already paid Newman so much to do all the pre-production recording?

[crumbs 14,287]

Ah interesting, didn't realise he was involved that early.

 

I do recall the final recording sessions with Dudamel were post-TROS.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

I think we discussed this when it was announced. And most felt that if Williams is going to spend 1.5 years on a movie, it better be composing and not arranging.

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

26 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

If there is one film that does not need to be remade, it's WEST SIDE STORY.

 

Casablanca and Lawrence of Arabia have entered the room.

[Jay 37,267]

Anyone besides me never seen the original West Side Story film (or play)?

[Chen G. 3,942]

Guilty as charged!

[karelm 2,902]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone besides me never seen the original West Side Story film (or play)?

I saw the original film in theater only recently in a live to picture concert at Baltimore and it blew me away!  Aside from the music, what was most noticeable is how it straddled eras so well.  The first half is a film of the 50's, a bit cheesy, silly, and corny (the snapping dances and officer krupke silly song).  The second half is a film of the 60's, gritty, dark, and erupting in volatile youth rage just about to explode with the counter culture movement.  The film bridges these eras so beautifully and then there is the great score, great dancing, great directing, great cinematography, etc., etc.  By it's final shots, the effect is deeply moving and the setting felt so natural and emotions and drama that at first were so in your face were now so raw and poignant had completely dissolved to the emotions left in the final moments.  It's not just a masterpiece, it's a time capsule of its time and place.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Anyone besides me never seen the original West Side Story film (or play)?

 

You should watch more movies.

[Jay 37,267]

4 minutes ago, karelm said:

I saw the original film in theater only recently in a live to picture concert at Baltimore and it blew me away!  Aside from the music, what was most noticeable is how it straddled eras so well.  The first half is a film of the 50's, a bit cheesy, silly, and corny (the snapping dances and officer krupke silly song).  The second half is a film of the 60's, gritty, dark, and erupting in volatile youth rage just about to explode with the counter culture movement.  The film bridges these eras so beautifully and then there is the great score, great dancing, great directing, great cinematography, etc., etc.  By it's final shots, the effect is deeply moving and the setting felt so natural and emotions and drama that at first were so in your face were now so raw and poignant had completely dissolved to the emotions left in the final moments.  It's a masterpiece.

 

Thanks for that!

What were you doing in Baltimore?

[karelm 2,902]

Just now, Jay said:

 

Thanks for that!

What were you doing in Baltimore?

I was playing with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra for their then annual orchestra academy.  The first night I got there, they played WSS live to film so went to see them play before we started our rehearsals the next day.  We played Wagner's Die Mestersingers of Nuremburg, Respighi's Fountains of Rome, Rimsky-Korsakav's Scheherazade, and a few other things I can't remember.

[Jay 37,267]

Wow very cool!

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

I saw it once ages ago, and it honestly did not leave a huge impression on me. I think perhaps because none of the leads seemed memorable to me. It is all very brisk and energetic and colorful and undoubtedly a superior piece of large-scale old-studio big movie-production. Of course it is watchable in the moment and probably entertaining and engrossing. But I remember little from it. Not one song, not one theme, not one memorable image. Maybe my memory is shit.

 

That is why I will watch the new version fresh as if seeing it for the first time.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

53 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Casablanca and Lawrence of Arabia have entered the room.

I think most of the classic movies could enter this room too

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

59 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

 

Casablanca and Lawrence of Arabia have entered the room.

CASABLANCA, now in color, and with a happy ending 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

How do you not remember the America song?

 

 

And Jay continues to prove he's seen few classic movies.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Bernstein's music is one of the great American works of the 20th century for me... but I don't actually consider the movie version an unassailable, untouchable classic.  I welcome a new adaptation, especially one that promises to hew closer to Bernstein's original orchestration, which I'm pretty sure I remember reading was one of the goals.

[Jay 37,267]

Everything I remember reading was that they they are doing a new filmed version of the original play, and not a remake of the first filmed version.  The poster credits likewise only credit the original play and not the first film

 

Incidentally, if anybody is still confused about the poster credits, it reads like this:

 

Executive Producers: Rita Moreno, Daniel Lupi, Adam Somner, Tony Kushner

Produced by: Steven Spielberg, Kristie Macosko Krieger, Kevin McCollum

Original Choreography by: Jerome Robbins

Choreographed by: Justin Peck

Based on the Stage Play (Book by Arthur Laurents, Music by Leonard Bernstein, Lyrics by Stephen Sondheim / Play Conceived, Directed, and Choreographed by Jerome Robbins)

Lyrics by Stephen Sondheim

Music by Leonard Bernstein

Screenplay by Tony Kushner

Directed by Steven Spielberg

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

I’ve seen the original film as well as at least one, excellent, albeit small scale live version (in Manchester). As I think I said before I found the film a bit long at times but the music is of course classic.

 

Lame brag of the day. I went on a Broadway cruise, hosted by Seth Rudetsky, for Broadway fans who will probably know who he is and featured a few relatively well known musical theatre stars. They included Jenna Russell, British west end star but also appeared in Eastenders for a number of years, band Ramin Karimloo who starred in both Phantom of the Opera as well as originating the lead in the ill fated sequel Love Never Dies. However the reason most people were there was to see Chita Rivera who originated Anita in the original Broadway production of WSS. She did a show for those of us in the group (which was about 30 people!) and was wonderful. Lovely lady and very gracious.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

I welcome a new adaptation, especially one that promises to hew closer to Bernstein's original orchestration, which I'm pretty sure I remember reading was one of the goals.

 

I found this interesting and looked it up - here is what i found - 

 

Classic Score by Bernstein Is Remade

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/07/arts/music/west-side-story-score-to-be-played-by-philharmonic.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hpw

 

By Daniel J. Wakin

• Sept. 6, 2011

Quote

 

When it came time to make a movie of his “West Side Story,” a busy Leonard Bernstein entrusted the score to Hollywood and his loyal arrangers.

 

But he was less than enchanted with the results. On hearing the overture for the first time on the stereo of the music director, John Green, he burst out, “Johnny, how the hell could you have done it so badly?,” one of the film’s producers, Walter Mirisch, said.

 

 

Quote

The guardians of Bernstein’s musical legacy have painstakingly recreated a written score of the soundtrack to be performed live by an orchestra during a screening of the movie. The live-orchestra version had its premiere on July 8 and 9 at the Hollywood Bowl by the Los Angeles Philharmonic, old hands at playing movie scores during screenings, and moves on to Chicago and London in the coming months. Its backers say that inquiries have come from Melbourne and Sydney, Australia; Tokyo; and several summer festivals. David Newman, an experienced movie score composer who led the Angelenos in the premiere, will conduct the New York Philharmonic. 

 

Quote

 

Sid Ramin and Irwin Kostal orchestrated the original Broadway musical in close collaboration with Bernstein. “He was very much involved,” said Mr. Ramin, 92, who was a childhood friend of Bernstein’s. “He put his seal of approval on what we had done.”

 

They were assigned to orchestrate the movie score under the guidance of Saul Chaplin, the associate producer. For Broadway, the arrangers wrote for roughly 30 musicians. MGM allowed them an orchestra three times the size. “It was like giving us a big candy store and saying, ‘Eat what you want,’ ” Mr. Ramin said.

 

What resulted was a lush, large score with six saxophone parts, passages with eight trumpets and others with five pianos added to five xylophones. The movie arrangers created a new overture, doubled the size of the opening dance prologue, moved scenes around and added musical overlays to the two-and-a-half-hour movie.

 

Quote

 

Bernstein, Ms. Berson wrote, found the sound mix “overbearing and lacking in texture and subtlety.”

 

Jamie Bernstein, a daughter of the composer’s, said by e-mail that her father “didn’t love everything” about the arrangement, or the movie, for that matter, but kept tactfully quiet.

 

Mr. Ramin said of Bernstein’s reaction to the movie score: “He liked some of it, and he didn’t like some of it. Lenny was really a purist at heart.”

 

 

Quote

 

“We’ve pulled it somewhat back from the excess of the film score. We made it closer to his theatrical intentions.”

 

Mr. Sunderland said the theater orchestration formed the backbone of his work. He also used a partial version of Mr. Ramin’s personal score, which was found in Columbia University’s archives, and a reduced version that belonged to Mr. Green. Eleonor Sandresky, a Bernstein office researcher, tracked down the Green materials in the collection of the movie’s co-director, Robert Wise, at the University of Southern California. Some orchestrations had to be reproduced by ear.

 

Passages impractical for onstage orchestras, like a section with five pianos and xylophones, were slimmed down. Mr. Sunderland made the “Cool” dance music more jagged; it had been smoothed out for the movie, he said.

 

 

Couple of interesting observations - 

 

1. We now know why David Newman was hired. He conducted Bernstein's restored score for the LTP screenings of the 1961 movie.

 

2. It seems the movie made a lot of changes to the score -

 

(a) Tripled the size of the orchestra

 

(b) Discarded Bernstein's overture and created a new one.

 

(c) Doubled the size of the opening prologue

 

(d) Added additional music overlays

 

(e) Changed the order of the songs

 

(f) Changed the jaggy edgy sound to smoother studio sound.

 

Which one of these will Spielberg revert back to the original?

 

I mean honestly, Spielberg loves big orchestration and a big sound. Do we really think for a musical he is going to scale back the orchestra to 30 players? I don't think so.

 

 

 

[Jay 37,267]

If Spielberg is truly just adapting the original play and ignoring the first movie, he's not "reverting" anything in his mind, just adapting the original play (and some other film version happens to exist)

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

22 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

I think most of the classic movies could enter this room too

 

I know. But for most classics when I see remakes come around I just sort of say "well that's a stupid idea."  But I think if someone tried to remake Casblanca or Lawrence, I'd be somewhat annoyed. I mean, even something like The Godfather I'd just roll my eyes and think whatever, but some things you just don't touch.

 

I'm biased though, I more or less regard Casablanca and Lawrence as perfect films.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

If Spielberg is truly just adapting the original play and ignoring the first movie, he's not "reverting" anything in his mind, just adapting the original play (and some other film version happens to exist)

 

Such a famous and iconic movie absolutely influences things. It has happened many times where movie adaptations influence subsequent stagings of the original play. The original play exists as a piece of the page - to be interpreted. I definitely think homage to the original film will happen. It happens right down to the hiring and casting of one of the original stars and giving her a producing credit - Rita Moreno - who apparently had nothing to do with the broadway production.

 

I think it will be a re-imagination/re-make/re-interpretation - all of those things at once. I think it would be difficult (and even foolish) to ignore the film version in creating and executing this movie.

[Jay 37,267]

Aye, I'm sure you're right

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

40 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

But I think if someone tried to remake Casblanca, I'd be actively offended.

 

It's already happened so you better start being offended.

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429]

39 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

I know. But for most classics when I see remakes come around I just sort of say "well that's a stupid idea."  But I think if someone tried to remake Casblanca or Lawrence, I'd be actively offended. I mean, even something like The Godfather I'd just roll my eyes and think whatever, but some things you just don't touch.

 

I'm biased though, I more or less regard Casablanca and Lawrence as perfect films.

I couldn't agree more although I would personally add the Godfather with the two others (plus Back to the Future for the very close threat upon that one)

 

1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It's already happened so you better start being offended.

??

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

[Quintus 5,399]

On 6/19/2020 at 7:01 PM, TheUlyssesian said:

Movie might be cancelled.

 

https://www.thewrap.com/ansel-elgort-sexual-assault-2014/

 

Some time later... 

 

16 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Reading reactions on twitter and my god does Spielberg have a PR nightmare on his hands. People are slamming Elgort left and right.

 

I think the best strategy would be to no use the actors in the promotion of the movie - which is a crying shame because of the USPs of the film is the diversity in the cast. But when the leading man is a PR liability, I wonder if they can get the other cast members out without raising uncomfortable questions. 

 

This looks good obviously - could be anything else if Spielberg directed it? I think in normal times this would have been a superhit, critically acclaimed and been nominated for a bunch of oscars.

 

Much of that might still happen. But the movie definitely has a liability on its hands.

 

Sheesus you're really determined about this total none story, aren't you. Get a life, dawg! Nobody cares about your obsession with the bollocks twitterverse. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

8 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

Some time later... 

 

 

Sheesus you're really determined about this total none story, aren't you. Get a life, dawg! Nobody cares about your obsession with the bollocks twitterverse. 

 

It is clearly newsworthy and affects the movie's prospects.

 

These things are very real. Read about how Disney does not know what to do with Death of a Nile because of Hammer. Movies are being reshot because of accused actors. Zack Snyder reshot an entire character for his zombie film.

 

So this definitely affects movie productions and is a point of discussion. It is not idle gossip. Sorry if you don't like. Nobody is passing judgements on human behavior in this thread if you notice. People are only discussing business prospects, releasability etc.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

There are various members here that seem to want to parrot Twitter, but I don't think Ulyssesian is one of them.

[Will 2,215]

I have to say, this trailer looks lovely. I previously wasn't particularly excited about this given that JW isn't involved***, but this trailer has made me at least somewhat excited. I might try to see this in theaters. A really well-made trailer, and it looks like Spielberg has gone with a really cool blend of modern day and old-fashioned for the aesthetic. 

 

I too was very surprised to see David Newman not credited on the poster or in the trailer. Bizarre (unless it turns out Newman actually didn't do that many new arrangements -- but I doubt that). 

 

Lastly, the female lead looks very good but, yes, the male lead has a bit of an asterisk attached to him. The extent to which that effects the movie's popularity remains to be seen. 

 

***Given JW's admiration for Bernstein, it would've been very cool to hear his arrangements, but I'm sure Newman will do a solid enough job. 

[Jay 37,267]

I've never tweeted in my life

[Quintus 5,399]

I spent a few minutes reading the reaction comments of the trailer on YouTube and didn't see a single mention of this so-called PR nightmare/liability Spielberg is supposed to have on his hands. Surprisingly, I just saw loads of comments talking about how good Kaminski's photography is. There's the real controversy right there. 

 

Ulysses 31 is just one of those guys who confuses online discourse and Reddit echo chambers with real life shit. It's very common behaviour these days. Just the fact that he referred to a no-name actor's transgressions as cause for entire movie "cancellation" says it all. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Janusz Poha is a great cinematographer 

[Nick1Ø66 4,687]

10 minutes ago, Jay said:

I've never tweeted in my life

 

Impressive. Most impressive. You are a smart cookie Mr. Jay!

[publicist 4,643]

Judging by the cadillacs Spielberg didn't even bother to update the decade. I wonder what's next, a shot-for-shot remake of Lawrence of Arabia?

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

There just happens to be an article about it - https://www.thelist.com/392265/the-real-reason-the-west-side-story-trailer-has-people-talking/

 

And there are literally thousands of articles when the allegations surfaced?

 

What happens when during the promo people ask him about assault allegations? Ask Spielberg about it and other cast members? They absolutely would be within their journalistic right to do so. 

 

Surely that is immensely positive press for the movie per Quintus. Maybe Quintus thinks having this story associated with this movie is a badge of honor and something to be celebrated.

[Quintus 5,399]

You assume all kinds of things, like I give a shit about this movie (I don't), and that the regular public give a hoot about whatever the latest thing twitter is being outraged by (when the vast majority of people in the western world don't use it). You're living in a hyperreality if you think junk links like the one you posted are worth a damn. 

 

I don't question the fact that the filmmakers will no doubt be asked some awkward questions about the actor's alleged conduct, but I very much doubt any of this will live up to the sensationalist hype you're determined to build around it, not by a long shot. 

[publicist 4,643]

I don't even ask if he was 'accused' or convicted, an important distinction the social media sphere has stopped to acknowledge since at least 2017. It's even worse worldwide news media gobbles this up because it's great clickbait. And even more worse that Spielberg probably is first in line to digitally replace the guy because of some weird Insta burp.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

Who was it who said "No publicity is bad publicity"?

[publicist 4,643]

Whoever it was didn't anticipate the social media hysterics of the post-2010's.

[Edmilson 7,370]

Maybe Disney will release this movie straight to Disney Plus or something. 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I've never tweeted in my life

" You've just taken your first step into a larger universe"

😊

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

46 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

There just happens to be an article about it - https://www.thelist.com/392265/the-real-reason-the-west-side-story-trailer-has-people-talking/

 

And there are literally thousands of articles when the allegations surfaced?

 

What happens when during the promo people ask him about assault allegations? Ask Spielberg about it and other cast members? They absolutely would be within their journalistic right to do so. 

 

Surely that is immensely positive press for the movie per Quintus. Maybe Quintus thinks having this story associated with this movie is a badge of honor and something to be celebrated.

 

This is just proving Quint's point as these journos' swill articles that pass for news these days just repost Twitter comments.