The Dark Trilogy 39 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Vertigo.This is declared as an absolute masterpiece, one of the best scores ever written. But I have problems with this score. It can't stand to me. I try everything: Read interviews and musical analysis, listen carefully to the score, analyse the sheet music. I even studied the musical book from University of Wisconsin Press, but nothing helped.Even in this forum and die-hard JW fans, the Vertigo score is considered to be a masterpiece. Please do not tell me something about the three pieces (Prelude, Scene D'Amour and Farewell). For only for those cues, I can easily buy a compilation, where Herrmann conducts the three pieces and done!Some people recommends The Forest and the complete Madeleine Scene, but I find those rahter boring. There is a Mercury CD with eight tracks I want to give a try. Maybe you can convince me that the complete score is important or give me a recommendation to buy the eight track version. Most people would say: "Take the complete score!", because of the tracks I mentioned above.Or maybe I have to live with it, it never meant anything for me. Personally, I find the best works from Bernard Herrmann are not those with Hitchcock related.What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 It's decent, but by no means the 'greatest film of all time' or such bollocks. Superlative cinematography and score, but that's it. Personally I prefer OBSESSION, which is Brian De Palma's more adult re-working of the same theme. Cliff Robertson and Geneviève Bujold are wonderful in it..... oh wait, we're talking about the score? If that's the case, I still prefer OBSESSION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Why do you pressure yourself to like it, while it is clear that it doesn't get into you?I would suggest to leave it at that now, and revisit it after some years.I frequently found myself loving something (a film mostly, or a soundtrack), that I didn't like at first.Maybe the same could happen to you! Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,676 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I've never seen this score considered as one of the greatest ever written. Sure, it's got Herrmann behind it, but beyond that I wouldn't say it gets singled out particularly. I very much enjoy it, but a lot of the score has a reflective nature which clicks with me.If it doesn't click with you, it doesn't click. I find the idea that a score is so revered that everyone must enjoy it absolutely ludicrousThe #1 score on this forum fitting that criteria is probably ESB. I saw the first half hour of the film for the first time recently, and found Williams' music distracting at times. It's just not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 This is why composers should strive for mediocrity in their scores because it becomes too damn distracting if it's really good. Sharkissimo and Smeltington 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 This is why composers should strive for mediocrity in their scores because it becomes too damn distracting if it's really good.I understand that moderation can be a virtue in film scoring, but there's nothing wrong with the occasional scene and moments in a film enhanced with spectacular music.To quote Max Bialystock from The Producers: If you got it, flaunt it, baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I was never able to "get" VERTIGO, actually. It's great in the movie and everything, but as a soundtrack album it always grated on me. Highpitched, repetitive figures en masse.Glad I'm not the only one to hold such a 'minority view'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I was never able to "get" VERTIGO, actually. It's great in the movie and everything, but as a soundtrack album it always grated on me. Highpitched, repetitive figures en masse.Please don't tell me you'd consider buying a complete and chronological presentation of the score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I wouldn't even (re)buy the old album version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I've never seen the movie nor heard the music. I wouldn't recognize it if you played it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 What's this movie about? Is that Herrmann guy any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I don't know, but he has a funny name. Herr-mann... Her-man... Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Her man would be her husband, if he liked it and he put a ring on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Ms. Herrmann and her man. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 What's this movie about? Is that Herrmann guy any goodIt's about High Anxiety.There is Madeline Kahn and Mel Brooks as Her mann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 This is why composers should strive for mediocrity in their scores because it becomes too damn distracting if it's really good. I understand that moderation can be a virtue in film scoring, but there's nothing wrong with the occasional scene and moments in a film enhanced with spectacular music.To quote Max Bialystock from The Producers: If you got it, flaunt it, baby!No, film music must be as bland as possible so that it doesn't clash with the director's vision. Composers can be such egomaniacs! Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 This is why composers should strive for mediocrity in their scores because it becomes too damn distracting if it's really good. I understand that moderation can be a virtue in film scoring, but there's nothing wrong with the occasional scene and moments in a film enhanced with spectacular music.To quote Max Bialystock from The Producers: If you got it, flaunt it, baby!No, film music must be as bland as possible so that it doesn't clash with the director's vision. Composers can be such egomaniacs!What makes you think that film music is not a part of a film (or a director's vision), so it should be as bland as possible?Then, in the same way, cinematography should be as bland as possible, so as not to "clash with the director's vision".Or costumes. Or sets. Or any other technical aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Music is dangerous. You must handle it with care. Just read Plato. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 This is why composers should strive for mediocrity in their scores because it becomes too damn distracting if it's really good. I understand that moderation can be a virtue in film scoring, but there's nothing wrong with the occasional scene and moments in a film enhanced with spectacular music.To quote Max Bialystock from The Producers: If you got it, flaunt it, baby!No, film music must be as bland as possible so that it doesn't clash with the director's vision. Composers can be such egomaniacs!What makes you think that film music is not a part of a film (or a director's vision), so it should be as bland as possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,823 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Music is dangerous. You must handle it with care. Just read Plato.They didn't have films in Plato's time.@BloodboalAh, ok. i can't understand when someone is sarcastic or not, without a proper emoticon.I don't know everyone's characters here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Music is dangerous. You must handle it with care. Just read Plato.They didn't have films in Plato's time.Oh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brown 91 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Vertigo.This is declared as an absolute masterpiece, one of the best scores ever written. But I have problems with this score. It can't stand to me. I try everything: Read interviews and musical analysis, listen carefully to the score, analyse the sheet music. I even studied the musical book from University of Wisconsin Press, but nothing helped.Even in this forum and die-hard JW fans, the Vertigo score is considered to be a masterpiece. Please do not tell me something about the three pieces (Prelude, Scene D'Amour and Farewell). For only for those cues, I can easily buy a compilation, where Herrmann conducts the three pieces and done!Some people recommends The Forest and the complete Madeleine Scene, but I find those rahter boring. There is a Mercury CD with eight tracks I want to give a try. Maybe you can convince me that the complete score is important or give me a recommendation to buy the eight track version. Most people would say: "Take the complete score!", because of the tracks I mentioned above.Or maybe I have to live with it, it never meant anything for me. Personally, I find the best works from Bernard Herrmann are not those with Hitchcock related.What do you think?It's an outstanding score. Perhaps it's better listening to it in the context of the film, rather than without the film. Certain scenes resonate in either case, though, such as the cue around 5:20 in "The Necklace, The Return and Finale". It's a beautiful, haunting piece of music especially when paired with the line "You shouldn't have been that sentimental."Like Sharky, and many others, I prefer Herrmann's OBSESSION over VERTIGO. Wish we'd get a f**king full release on CD.Now, tell me what's so special about James Horner's score for ALIENS. Nothing? Oh, alright.Edit: 69th post. heh heh heh. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 @BloodboalAh, ok. i can't understand when someone is sarcastic or not, without a proper emoticon.I don't know everyone's characters here..After years of posting here you expect anything less from Bloodboal??????Now, tell me what's so special about James Horner's score for ALIENS. Nothing? Oh, alright.Will you have my babies?On the topic of VERTIGO, even if the odd-60 minutes of underscore do nothing for you, just the main titles and the scene d'amour are more towering achievements than most other composer's could have possibly achieved. And the movie, odd duck it is, gains its dreamy, delirious state in large parts by BH's music. It's not a score i revisit particularly often (Herrmann consumes me!) just as i don't revisit OBSESSION, but when i have them on rotation i just know that this is the stuff the dreaded term MASTERPIECE was conjured for. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Music is dangerous. You must handle it with care. Just read Plato.They didn't have films in Plato's time.@BloodboalAh, ok. i can't understand when someone is sarcastic or not, without a proper emoticon.I don't know everyone's characters here..Emoticons kill the effect. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Herrmann's Vertigo is a certified film music masterpiece. Just live with it!For me the allure of the score past the obvious highlights is the subtle inventively subtextual underscore Herrmann conjures with such apparent ease. The habanera rhythm for Carlotta suggesting the woman's Spanish roots and the tentatively romantic yet uneasy mood of the dialogue scenes. It is not complex but highly economic for the most part yet has a sort of elegance that just tickles my fancy. I have often remarked on Herrmann's masterful way of creating unease in even his loveliest melodies and moods and there is a ghostly suggestion of the supernatural about this music, which deals with the central subtexts of the film very aptly. Then again I can wax poetic to the point of incoherence about this music since I like it so much.A good example of a classic film music masterpiece that I can't get into is North's Spartacus. All the praise on its different aspects doesn't really help to rationalize the greatness of the music for me when I don't hear it. Delorean90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Aliens score > Alien score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Quint-o! You came back from the depths of the big blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Emoticons kill the effect.Is that sarcasm? I'm not sure, if you don't use an emoticon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,233 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Quint-o! You came back from the depths of the big blue!Quint-Gon Jinn has returned from the netherworld of the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Quint-o! You came back from the depths of the big blue!Quint-Gon Jinn has returned from the netherworld of the Force.It's the JWFanners that go swimming with the bow-legged women! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Emoticons kill the effect. Is that sarcasm? I'm not sure, if you don't use an emoticon.Emoticons are for the weak minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Are you saying that I'm weak minded? Emoticons, please, I'm not sure if you're being serious or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I use emoticons, therefore I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 I love this music. Beautiful string writing in the scene d'amour.A great mix of suspension and beauty with this one.Herrmann No humor in this post. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedBard 71 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 A haiku of my perspective from where I last left off:I look as this thread With a big and cheesy grin. My work here is done. Emoticons are fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Aliens score > Alien scoreBack to the old freezerinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 I love this music. Beautiful string writing in the scene d'amour.A great mix of suspension and beauty with this one.Herrmann No humor in this post.Puny weakling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 42 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 In addition to the above comments, I would say that I love the way Herrmann develops the themes in a very operatic fashion. There's a Wagnerian touch to the score that I'm sure was intentional--indeed, the film is very much like a cinematic opera without singing. Ultimately it's up to you what clicks in terms of the musical taste, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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