UCFKevin 0 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I say yes. Most definitely yes. I'm far from a classical music expert, or even a film score expert, but I am pretty well educated on a lot of orchestral music and have heard quite a bit of it, ranging from Beethoven to Grieg and Goldsmith to Zimmer, and I sincerely have to say that no other composer's work has ever reached me, touched my heart, raised goosebumps, tingled my spine, etc. like Johnny Williams has. Superman, Indy, Star Wars, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Hook, Patriot, Minority Report, AI...that's all the work of a genius. God bless Williams. Without him, the world would be even shittier than it already is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskobolus 3 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 A 'no' answer on my part.Williams isn't the best composer ever.BeethovenChopinRachmaninoffto name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Uhm....is there a way to change one's vote? I accidentally voted for "yes", but as I've said before, I consider Anton Bruckner to be the greatest composer of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Yes, in my opinion. He writes music that most closely relates to and affects me. I like his music more than anyone else's. It affects me the most. I understand it more than other music.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I like his music the best..so he's the greatest composer ever ...that simple.I like the way he can layer his music so much and still sound amazing.Other composers try but often fall flat.k.m.Who has listened to a lot of clasical music too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 My votes for best composer of all time go for Bach, Beethoven, and Stravinsky. Williams may be the best FILM composer (although I think Rozsa and Herrmann tie with him for that title!), but to compare him to every composer of the last 800 years and rank him as best is probably not very wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 We have to define best, but since it wasn't defined in the question, it's up to our own discretion. For me, it's the music that most affects me. John Williams writes exactly what I look for in music.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 .For all the other composers,i can usually point to a few specific piece that are really good,but I find the rest usually always bland by comparison.Williams consistantly amazes me from one work to the next...even in his "slumps".K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Williams may be the best FILM composer (although I think Rozsa and Herrmann tie with him for that title!), but to compare him to every composer of the last 800 years and rank him as best is probably not very wise.Yeah, guys, stop being so unwise! Get with the program! Obviously John Williams isn't the best composer of all time. Don't believe me? Go look it up in the encylopedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Williams may be the best FILM composer (although I think Rozsa and Herrmann tie with him for that title!), but to compare him to every composer of the last 800 years and rank him as best is probably not very wise.Yeah, guys, stop being so unwise! Get with the program! Obviously John Williams isn't the best composer of all time. Don't believe me? Go look it up in the encyclopedia. First of all- the program sucks! why should I get with it? I like to make my own opinions- I couldn't care less what Mr. Britannica says. Second- people judge this from different points of view. Is he as prolific as Haydn, Beethoven or Bach? No where near. Is he as diverse? I'd say as diverse as any composer could be- in his life time he has composed music inspired by more cultures than any other man I've heard of. Has he looked at every culture in depth? certainly not. Is he the most original? Certainly not. Did he revolutionize music? no Did he popularize music? more than any other recent composer I don't know this for a fact, but I've found that often people who are musicians themselves, or study music, are music more hesitant to name 'Best'. I don't know what 'Best' is in something as ethereal as music. To me, It means the composer which I enjoy listening to most. The one that affects me most. The only one who in every single Album of his I can find something I like listening to. The one who has covered (IMO at least) an endless array of cultures, emotions images. There is no composer I would rather listen to more than John Williams. I might feel like popping in Goldsmith's Mummy, Newton Howard's Signs, Elfman's Men in Black, Poledouris' Lonesome dove, or for that matter- Beethoven's 5, 6 and 9th symphonies, Mendhelsson's Violin concerto, Dvorak's New world symphony, Mussorgsky's night on the Lone Mountain, Tchaicovsky's Swan lake,or any other in an endless list of composers and pieces I like- but I like at least part of every single piece John Williams has ever written. With all the above, I like several their pieces, but not most of their body of work. The way John Williams writes, his style, his attitude- all reach me in a very profound way. So, to me- yes he the best composer of all times. If I've learned one thing since joining JWFan, it's that music is subject on which least people agree on. It is incomprehensible to me that someone could choose 'Fame' over 'The Empire Strikes back'. So I think favorite is the more appropriate word- many people here feel that arguing over 'best' has a point- let's not humor that superficial view of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf 4 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Damnit...I can't vote on this! I just can't!John Williams is most definitely the best 'film composer' of all time, no doubts about it. As for best composer ever, I just can't say...my votes for that would either be for Tchaikovsky or Beethoven.One thing is for certain...John Williams is definitely my favorite composer of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 i soft of have to agree with beowulfi voted no. there are SO many other composers out there that are AS good if not better.think about all that mozart did.beethovenstravinsky grainger rachmaninofftchaikovskyothers. . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Beowulf said it well. While I don't see JW as my top favourite (but he's near the top), I agree with his reasoning. I like to make my own opinions- I couldn't care less what Mr. Britannica says.When I open an encyclopedia, I'm usually looking for facts, not opinions. Of course, the facts change at times, too....as far as I know, some encyclopedias list different (Italian) people as the inventors of the telephone in their Italian editions...Did he popularize music? more than any other recent composerI don't think this is true at all. Film music, certainly, perhaps (probably) even orchestral music. But certainly not music as a whole. Of all the people listening to music the vastest (8O) majority couldn't care less for him.Marian - who thinks they're missing out big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Err, objectively no (not even of film music, but one of the greatest). Subjectively tied with Alex North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scissorhands 16 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I say "Yes, he is the best film composer of all time". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Absolutely not! Not even the best film composer of all time. And I'm not sorry for saying that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Yes!!!Like others said, it´s my favorite composer of all time, so of course I consider him the greatest composer of all time!Everything else would be dishonest pseudo-intellectual bullshit!John Williams forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 So we have established that he isn't objectively the best, now how about a harder question, which grade would you rate him as or league you would put him in a classical composer (which includes film output) and film composer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 i'll definitely have to think about that one.Maybe on the lines of Brahms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Hum... I'd say that JW is the best film composer ever but he surely is not the best composer ever! The best would obviously be Amadeius Mozart... and Beethoven... and Chopin... and Tchaikovsky... there are to many!Catherine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 The best would obviously be Amadeius Mozart... and Beethoven... and Chopin... and Tchaikovsky... there are to many!CatherineI usualy write Amadeus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 The best would obviously be Amadeius Mozart... and Beethoven... and Chopin... and Tchaikovsky... there are to many!CatherineI usualy write Amadeus...Well I usually say WAM (wolfgang amadeus mozart) but I dont think eveyone knows that's his name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 The best would obviously be Amadeius Mozart... and Beethoven... and Chopin... and Tchaikovsky... there are to many!CatherineI usualy write Amadeus...Well I usually say WAM (wolfgang amadeus mozart) but I dont think eveyone knows that's his name...I do 8OWell i voted yes thinking we were speaking of film composers. I do know halrdy classical music to say he is the best. Unfortunately, he will not be acclaimed ans the classical composers were. You know the famous music of their time was theirs and now film music is underrated... a shame Luke, who hopes no DJ enters an enciplopedia ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 The best would obviously be Amadeius Mozart... and Beethoven... and Chopin... and Tchaikovsky... there are to many!CatherineI usualy write Amadeus...Well I usually say WAM (wolfgang amadeus mozart) but I dont think eveyone knows that's his name...When I talk about good old Wolfgang, I usualy use his alst name, that everyone knows... And I think most of the people only knows his middle name because of the film.Miguel, who did knew the complete name of Amadeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 When I talk about good old Wolfgang, I usualy use his alst name, that everyone knows... And I think most of the people only knows his middle name because of the film.People might confused him with his father Leopold then (who also was a composer). BTW, just as an example, Bach would be a composer whom I consider to be one of the greatest ever, but who's not in my list of favourites (not yet, at least).Marian - who wouldn't put Brahms on the same level as Williams, because he doesn't care very much for most Brahms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,262 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 If I had to pick only one disc to take to a desert island, I would likelly take Bach's Goldberg Variations, performed by Gleen Gould. This brings tears to my eyes! This doens't means that I love Williams the less... But for my mental sanity sake, I think that if I had to live with only on cd for the rest of my life, I think that might help me more. And I do think that, musically speaking, J.S.Bach (not to cofuse with any other relative), is God! His music has soemthing very special that touchs me deeply.Other that he, is Johnny all over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I swear we have had this discussion before.I think we need to (at least attempt to) quantify what it means to be a great composer.First, a great composer needs to understand melodic simplicity. It is for this reason that people do not whistle tunes by Webern, but rather by Mozart.Does John Williams meet this requirement? Yes, for sure. Melodies such as the Star Wars theme have become quite memorable on their own.Another thing a great composer needs is to be able to transcend sociological barriers, such as lay-person vs. classical trained musician, poor vs. rich, Western vs. non-Western, etc. This is very important to be well known and liked the world over. Mozart and Beethoven, for example, do transcend these barriers it seems, and it is part of what makes their music so important. Other Nationalist composers (Sibelius, Villa-Lobos, Chavez, Copland, etc.) are not as well known because their music seems only truly relevant to their country. Does John Williams meet this requirement? To a limited degree, but more than most. Along those same lines, a great composer must transcend time. This is why Bach is still listened to. His music is good throughout the ages. Even though his music is approximately 300 yrs old, most musicians consider him a very large influence on their own music, whether it be classical, rock, jazz, or minimal!Does John Williams meet this requirement? No. Composers, like wine, age better with time. Every composer needs to stand the test of time. Some composers were very popular while they were alive, but are all now all but forgotten (Meyerbeer is a wonderful example!). Others fell out of knowledge, and then resurfaced much later to be rediscovered, such as Bach. Just because JW is popular now (and he is very popular indeed!) holds no real foresight into the future. We can hope that he will stand the test of time, but no one knows for sure.A great composer must be flexible, and have a lot of compositional techniques at his disposal. Mozart didn't just write one style of music, he wrote many, including operas, oratorios, string quartets, symphonies, sonatas, etc. Today's composers must do the same. Does John Williams meet this requirement? Somewhat. John Williams has written many concert works, and a lot for film, as well as in many different styles. However, it would do him good to write more concert works. Does he have a sufficient compositional vocabulary? Yes. His vocabulary is on par with most other contemporary composers, and exceeds almost all current film composers.I think I have covered the most important points in deciding what makes a great composer. Does John Williams meet any of these points? Yes, but then again, so do a lot of other composers, and some composers certainly meet other points better than he does.It is because the above questions lead to a large group of answers that I urge none of you to be so swift to judgement about any composer. It all does come down to opinion for sure (I could say Beethoven, another could say Mozart, or Bach, or Wagner...), but a well thought and well conceived opinion that one can back up with a good argument far outweighs a whim that one may have. Sure, I like Rimsky-Korsakov more than I like Beethoven, but I still consider Beethoven the better composer!Just food for thought. I'd rather avoid an argument. I just want to get some serious thinking going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 you're right jeremy,we had this same discussino before, or there abouts and people started getting pissed.Marian,you should listen to more Brahms. I possibly have a bias to him though because i studied him so much in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus 0 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 grainger Percy Granger? Yeah, he's good I voted no, I'm more in the line of Richard Strauss and of course many of the other greats in the world of music, Stravinsky, Mozart, Beethoven and so on. John Williams is indeed one of the best film composers of all time though! And after JW I'd say Henry Mancini and Erich Wolfgang Korngold, just to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted February 16, 2003 Author Share Posted February 16, 2003 Boy, it's a pretty small gap. 13 say yes, 10 say no. Very interesting. And of course, I meant not in general like EVERYONE has to think he's the best, but to YOU, is he the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 yes percy grainger.love him and his french horns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Well, the term "greatest composer who ever lived" is a bit strong for my liking. Personally, I don't have the extensive musical background that some others of you may have, so my input may not be valued as much. But I do have a pretty good understanding of music in general, like the classical composers that have been brought up in this thread. So in my limited knowledge I could very easily say that Williams is my favorite composer, but labeling someone the greatest this-or-that just isn't my thing since I'm not a big advocate of naming one above all others. Film is more my venue, and if someone asked me who I thought was the greatest filmmakers ever to live was, I wouldn't be able to place one above all the others. I haven't seen every movie out there, though I wish I had, and each great filmmaker has brought something different and unique to the table - whether its Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Traffaut, Scorsese, Ford, Lang, or even Spielberg. I think the same goes for music -- Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Thchaikovsky, and even Williams. There isn't one that's better than the other. There is too much out there to say that one is the better than everything else.John Williams is without question my favorite composer of all time for the very same reasons mentioned by others -- more than any other musician, his music has affected me the most. it has been a part of me my entire life; and the older I get the more I am able to appreciate his music on deeper levels. I love his music, plain and simple. No other composer's music has touched my heart the way his does... and that is something that I couldn't come close to understanding or explaining, but I have accepted it.Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 Kevin, remember to subtract one "Yes" and add one "No" because I clicked the wrong button. Marian,you should listen to more Brahms. I possibly have a bias to him though because i studied him so much in college.Perhaps. I do have his Requiem (which I rather enjoy) and his 4 symphonies, but I rarely play those...perhaps it's just because they're Szell recordings though; I'm not very keen on his interpretations.Marian - who loves that theme in the 4th movement of the 1st symphony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 yes but not most definatly. Goldsmith is very close. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 oh my!his requiem is great,I do have to add though, that you would be doing me a personal favor by listening to his Op. 117 1, 2, 3 Intermezzi for piano. I played those at my recital and really really really (times infinity) think they are absolutely astounding and emotion provoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I say yes! OK maybe I am a little biased but I listen to JW's work alot more than Mozart that is for damn sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 First, a great composer needs to understand melodic simplicity. It is for this reason that people do not whistle tunes by Webern, but rather by Mozart.Another thing a great composer needs is to be able to transcend sociological barriers, such as lay-person vs. classical trained musician, poor vs. rich, Western vs. non-Western, etc. This is very important to be well known and liked the world over. Mozart and Beethoven, for example, do transcend these barriers it seems, and it is part of what makes their music so important. Other Nationalist composers (Sibelius, Villa-Lobos, Chavez, Copland, etc.) are not as well known because their music seems only truly relevant to their country.Actually I'd put these 2 in the same catagory. There is a social barrier between melodic simplisty and say for example Webern that is similar to lay-person vs. classical trained musician. And I agree that Williams meets these barriers to a limited degree For example North totally meets it and Rozsa only slightly reaches it.Along those same lines, a great composer must transcend time. This is why Bach is still listened to. His music is good throughout the ages. Even though his music is approximately 300 yrs old, most musicians consider him a very large influence on their own music, whether it be classical, rock, jazz, or minimal!Time is not always just though, but yes I mostly agree.Does John Williams meet this requirement? No. Composers, like wine, age better with time. Every composer needs to stand the test of time. Some composers were very popular while they were alive, but are all now all but forgotten (Meyerbeer is a wonderful example!). Others fell out of knowledge, and then resurfaced much later to be rediscovered, such as Bach. Just because JW is popular now (and he is very popular indeed!) holds no real foresight into the future. We can hope that he will stand the test of time, but no one knows for sure.I am very positive that he will, he has already influenced many other composers and if you look to the history of film music someone who has achieved what he has will not be easily forgotten.A great composer must be flexible, and have a lot of compositional techniques at his disposal. Mozart didn't just write one style of music, he wrote many, including operas, oratorios, string quartets, symphonies, sonatas, etc. Today's composers must do the same. A style is not a form. I do not think a film composer needs to cover many forms because of the great diversity that film music has. Therefore I'd rather say a composer needs stylistic diversity and not just to have composed for a number of forms.I think I have covered the most important points in deciding what makes a great composer. Does John Williams meet any of these points? Yes, but then again, so do a lot of other composers, and some composers certainly meet other points better than he does.Perhaps you missed that a composer should have a very strong signature or style that is his own so that you know it's him when you listen to it. Williams does have this though not as strongly as others.Plus I'd add that a great composer should achieve a fairly large amount of innovation at least and to be revolutionary would be prefered. Williams doesn't exactly have much of this. It is because the above questions lead to a large group of answers that I urge none of you to be so swift to judgement about any composer. It all does come down to opinion for sure (I could say Beethoven, another could say Mozart, or Bach, or Wagner...), but a well thought and well conceived opinion that one can back up with a good argument far outweighs a whim that one may have. Sure, I like Rimsky-Korsakov more than I like Beethoven, but I still consider Beethoven the better composer!Well I do have to say that I consider Mozart both subjectively and objectively overrated. I think his language, innovation and range/style is limited compared to Bach and Beethoven and I don't think he's in their league.Percy Granger? Yeah, he's goodThanks. There is too much out there to say that one is the better than everything else. That's pretty much true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 There is too much out there to say that one is the better than everything else. That's pretty much true. Wait a minute Morn, does this mean that you and I actually agree on something?Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 A great composer must be flexible, and have a lot of compositional techniques at his disposal. Mozart didn't just write one style of music, he wrote many, including operas, oratorios, string quartets, symphonies, sonatas, etc. Today's composers must do the same.I have to disagree here. Variety is one possible aspect of a great composer, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Wagner hardly wrote anything but operas, yet he's considered to be one of the greats. Bruckner wrote mostly symphonies (plus some choral works and a few organ pieces), and those all generally "sound the same" (meaning that you can immediately recognize him from just a few bars, more than with any other composer I know; they're still different enough when you listen closely), and he was indeed neglected at first, but nowadays he's thought of as one of the greatest symphonic composers of the Romatic era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 As I learned in my last post, I have to be careful what I say so I'll make it short.Is John Williams the greatest composer of all time? A very subjective question and no one can fault those who said yes. He's is very prolific. My vote would go to J.S. Bach who was a tremendous influence on those who followed. He, almost single handedly, changed the course of "classical" music. W.A. Mozart would be a close second. How many composers could write a full symphony down on paper, right from their head, with out erasing or changing a single note?But if you ask "Is John Williams the Greatest Composer of Film Music Who Ever Lived?" Put me down for a yes vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banthapoodoo 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Sorry, guys... that last guest was me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Wait a minute Morn, does this mean that you and I actually agree on something? Is that so unusual? I have to disagree here. Variety is one possible aspect of a great composer, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Probably, but it's very important and far from a luxury, it's important enough to make it quite harder to call a composer without it great.Wagner hardly wrote anything but operas, yet he's considered to be one of the greats.Mainly because he was revolutionary. Bruckner wrote mostly symphonies (plus some choral works and a few organ pieces), and those all generally "sound the same" (meaning that you can immediately recognize him from just a few bars, more than with any other composer I know; they're still different enough when you listen closely), and he was indeed neglected at first, but nowadays he's thought of as one of the greatest symphonic composers of the Romatic era. Bruckner is an example of how time can be unjust, because he diserves some what more fame than he has. My vote would go to J.S. Bach who was a tremendous influence on those who followed. He, almost single handedly, changed the course of "classical" music.I agree, and North did the same for film music btw. W.A. Mozart would be a close second. How many composers could write a full symphony down on paper, right from their head, with out erasing or changing a single note? Umm, it's not how much talent you have but how you use it and it doesn't mean what he wrote was as impressive as how he wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsawruk 0 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 A great composer must be flexible, and have a lot of compositional techniques at his disposal. Mozart didn't just write one style of music, he wrote many, including operas, oratorios, string quartets, symphonies, sonatas, etc. Today's composers must do the same.I have to disagree here. Variety is one possible aspect of a great composer, but it isn't absolutely necessary. Wagner hardly wrote anything but operas, yet he's considered to be one of the greats. Bruckner wrote mostly symphonies (plus some choral works and a few organ pieces), and those all generally "sound the same" (meaning that you can immediately recognize him from just a few bars, more than with any other composer I know; they're still different enough when you listen closely), and he was indeed neglected at first, but nowadays he's thought of as one of the greatest symphonic composers of the Romatic era.Yes, agreed that some have been less flexible than others, but I think flexibility allows a composer to reach a wider audience. The greater the audience a composer can communicate with, the better.I still am not sure I would count Bruckner as one of the greatest, although his music was very good. As far as Wagner, even though he wrote mostly opera, they are all different with their own character. There is some diversity in that, but not as much as a Mozart.If you took a poll of who people thought was the greatest composer ever, chances are you would get Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart as the top 3. But why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,178 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Yes, agreed that some have been less flexible than others, but I think flexibility allows a composer to reach a wider audience. The greater the audience a composer can communicate with, the better.Agreed. Marian - pausing from vacuum cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 morn those were the longest posts i've seen you write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKenLittle 6 Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 I'm afraid I will have to abstain from voting because the question is not phrased right to give anything other than an emotional reaction. This is my thinking on the good, better, best philosophy... It's always subjective!There is no one person who can say that this is the greatest thing or that is... It cannot be done for one very simple reason, everyone sees, hears, tastes and feels things differently. Personally, I tear up every time I hear the theme from Schindler's List, but I also tear up when I listen to Tschaikovsky's "Symphonie Pathetique". Does that make it their greatest compostions, NO. I prefer the "Cappricio Italien" and Williams "Theme from Superman". I also prefer Italian food to Chinese, I prefer Coke over Pepsi and Crab over Lobster... Does it make them the best, well in the case of Coke over Pepsi, maybe, but no. My taste buds and hearing make me like these things. Some people gag over any seafood, some can't stand the taste of tomatoes... Does that mean they are right? Nope!I think in time John Williams will be remembered as one of the most respected composers of the 20th century, along with Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein and Igor Stravinsky. I think that Film Music is slowly starting to break free of the stigma that made it an unwelcome cousin of Concert Hall and Classical Music. When you look at the roster of names that have written film music in the last century, they read like a whos who of the best that the 20th Century had to offer. Now that technology is allowing us to restore some of the great film scores of the past, an all new generation of people are discovering the classic music of Miklos Rosza, Alfred Newman, Bernard Herrmann, Franz Waxman and Erich Wolfgang Korngold, to name a few. Composers like Jerry Goldsmith, Alex North and John Williams are fionding there way into the concert hall, and not just the Saturday afternoon Pops series... But the real concert hall playing opposite other great 20th century composers. So, is John Williams the greatest composer of the 20th Century even... 'Fraid not. He is ONE of them. My personal favourite... But enough with the good, better, best thing... It serves no purpose, I've said this before... The BEST composer of all time, is probably some one creating completely original music, without any of the western influence of the past 500 years, living somewhere on the banks of the Orinoco... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Haha, I upset the balance.A great composer, yes.I don't think anyone can ever truly be the BEST.There's too many ways to rate greatness, that no one person could possibly ever meet them all.Film music? Probably.Film music of our time? Definitely.But out of all music, ever? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Yes, agreed that some have been less flexible than others, but I think flexibility allows a composer to reach a wider audience. The greater the audience a composer can communicate with, the betterI don't like the idea of a composer pandering to the audience. But I do think that the more flexible the composer is, the more of him you get to see. I still am not sure I would count Bruckner as one of the greatest, although his music was very good. As far as Wagner, even though he wrote mostly opera, they are all different with their own character. There is some diversity in that, but not as much as a Mozart. His music is an important link between Wagner and Mahler and was quite innovative for it's time. Now Mahler is definately one of the greatest though. morn those were the longest posts i've seen you write. Not quite. My vote would go to J.S. Bach who was a tremendous influence on those who followed. He, almost single handedly, changed the course of "classical" music. I agree, and North did the same for film music btw. I'll add Korngold to that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCFKevin 0 Posted February 18, 2003 Author Share Posted February 18, 2003 BigKen, come on. Of COURSE it's going to be subjective. Of course it's everyone's opinions. No one here, I hope, is acting like because THEY think John Williams is the best composer ever means that he is, officially THE best composer ever, fact, not opinion. It's all opinions. And I'm asking you folks if, in YOUR OPINION, you think Johnny is the best composer ever. It's just like movies. You ask what someone thinks the best movie is, and if they answer, it doesn't mean it IS the best movie ever, it's all subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted February 18, 2003 Share Posted February 18, 2003 Most definitely NO!!!!He is not the best composer ever. Far from it.He is, however, MY FAVORITE composer. My vote in that case has to be a NO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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