Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)

[Thor 7,503]

So I just came back from the movie. A few remarks without spoilers follow.

 

I'm embargoed to reveal anything substantial, nor would I have since you're all seeing it very soon (some of you maybe tonight already, which -- as I pointed out earlier -- makes the strict security and embargo rather ridiculous; probably just a ploy to lure critics into thinking this is some massive event).

 

In general, I thought the film was OK. I thought TFA was superior, but I like the fact that they're taking a more serious approach to the universe (with jokes and references kept to a minimum). The tempo is very high -- especially in the action sequences towards the end -- which makes me believe the re-cuts and re-shoots are mostly found here. Sadly, there were very few traces of the Gareth Edwards I know and love, and his unique -- often slower and more contemplative -- approach to action. I had hoped for something perhaps akin to the airport sequence in GODZILLA. Or the restrained monster confrontations in MONSTERS. But it IS darker than anything we've seen in the earlier movies, which I really like.

 

There are several plot elements that mirror the original movies (some STAR WARS, some EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, some RETURN OF THE JEDI), with only very few references to the prequels (Jimmy Smits being a delightful exception).

 

Then there are a couple of annoyances. One of the most striking is a couple of CGI/motion capture faces, which felt totally out-of-place and could have been realized far more elegantly.

 

Unsurprisingly, the score was THE major annoyance. I found it borderline dreadful, to be honest. The theme for Jyn sounds like a watered-down version of "Across the Stars", which wouldn't be too bad in and of itself. But imagine that theme boiled down to just 4 chords without any melody line on top of it. In fact, that's my main criticism of the score and Giacchino in general -- it's just chords, chords, chords; hardly any lines or thematic definition. And then -- of course -- endless ostinati. Now and then, he sprinkles the orchestration with some Williams-y elements (a brass flurry, a boom-tss etc.), but they feel rather awkward. And then there's his "twist" on the STAR WARS themes, or rather, his 'chordification' of them, much like he's done on the STAR TREK movies (mimicking Goldsmith's chord leaps, in particular). There are a few snippets of Williams' themes (the rebel theme, the Force theme, the Imperial March etc.), but -- with a few exceptions -- they come and go without much fuss. And like with JURASSIC WORLD, it makes it painfully clear how inferior Giacchino is to Williams.

 

But then you probably knew I would say that, given my distaste of the composer's music. I'll probably sample it on Spotify when it gets released, but seriously doubt I'm going to want to own it.

 

But hey -- I sound more negative than I actually am. It's a decent film (great photography and set designs, some stunning individual shots, good performances by Felicity Jones and Ben Mendelsohn, in particular, and not really any dull moments). I'll see it again soon to re-evaluate properly.

[Jay 37,355]

Did you like the film more or less than you like The Force Awakens film?

[Thor 7,503]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

Did you like the film more or less than you like The Force Awakens film?

 

Less. But that doesn't mean it's bad. It's decent. THE FORCE AWAKENS was, after all, one of my favourite movies last year.

[Romão 2,274]

From his review, Jay:

 

"  I thought TFA was superior, "

[Jay 37,355]

Ooops, missed that.

 

Thor, how was that robot guy, funny?  Overused?

[Thor 7,503]

He was fine. He was certainly no C3PO. Much more toned down, and -- I would say -- properly used. The only comic sidekick in the film. I would be surprised if he caused any irritation a la Jar Jar.

[Jay 37,355]

Cool, thanks for your report!  Looking forward to seeing it Thursday evening.

[Quintus 5,399]

26 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

I'm embargoed to reveal anything substantial, 

 

*goes on to reveal loads of substantial info!* 

[Thor 7,503]

Did I? I read and re-read my post to check if I had revealed any plot point at all, and I couldn't find any. Everything had to do with structure, visuals and sound. Unless people weren't aware that Jimmy Smits starred in the film?! It's been known for some time now.

[Jay 37,355]

Indeed

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I dont see any spoilerish things.

 

 

[mstrox 6,651]

It's only spoiler-ish if you haven't been keeping up with the official articles/videos/interviews/etc.

[Quintus 5,399]

Nothing spoilerish (thanks Thor), but I still learned more about Rogue One just now than I've known all year. 

[Jay 37,355]

7 Things We Learned From the ROGUE ONE Prequel Novel

[mstrox 6,651]

Just read the AVClub.com review of the movie, and it told quite a bit more than I wanted to know at this point.  Going dark on Rogue One until I see it.  See you nerds next Monday!

[Jay 37,355]

Monday?

Why not see it tomorrow night?

[Romão 2,274]

I'm seeing this tomorrow

[Jay 37,355]

Me too!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,524]

I'm popping off to see it at my local IMAX, on Christmas Eve.

[Jay 37,355]

9 Rogue One connections to the Star Wars Saga

[mstrox 6,651]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

Monday?

Why not see it tomorrow night?

 

I'm seeing it Saturday morning.  Have to work around good babysitter times.  I don't come here on weekends. I prefer to be paid

 

With that said, NOW I'll see you nerds in this thread on Monday.

[Will 2,215]

Thor's comments (particularly on the score) are very disappointing.

 

But I remember back to Thor's rather negative initial comments on the TFA score, which were a real drain on my enthusiasm, and realize that I need to hold my opinions.

 

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

 

I'm seeing it Saturday morning.  

 

Saturday afternoon!

 

Glad I'm not the only one who can't see it till then. 

[Thor 7,503]

27 minutes ago, Will said:

Thor's comments (particularly on the score) are very disappointing.

 

But I remember back to Thor's rather negative initial comments on the TFA score, which were a real drain on my enthusiasm, and realize that I need to hold my opinions.

 

You should also bear in mind that I have major issues with Giacchino as a composer. I'm not denigrating my own view, which I stand by 100%, but from experience, I'm expecting a lot of fans to like this.

[Bespin 8,481]

Non-spoiler review.... BORING!

 

Where do we go for a full of spoilers review?

[Thor 7,503]

Just wait a day or two, and we'll be discussing this film and score with spoilers aplenty! (I'm probably going to phase out like I usually do when the discussion takes off with hundreds of posts every day; I like my STAR WARS, but I'm not as "into it" or obsessed with it as many others).

[Bespin 8,481]

Ok I know who is the 2nd CGI well-known character!

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

40 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Where do we go for a full of spoilers review?

 

Reddit is your friend, Bespin. 

[Will 2,215]

Embargo's over, apparently.

 

I am going to quote some negative reviews, but remember that most are positive! (Variety, EW, Vanity Fair, Chicago Tribune, etc.)

 

Holy crap -- the NYTimes review is pretty darn negative:

 

Oh, and don't read it if you're avoiding spoilers -- there's a very big hint about a certain scene!

 

Quote

Millions of people will sit through this thoroughly mediocre movie (directed with basic competence by Gareth Edwards from a surprisingly hackish script by Chris Weitz and Tony Gilroy) and convince themselves that it’s perfectly delightful. It’s so much easier to obey than to resist. The spoiler warning sent by the Disney empire instructed journalists to “continue to be our partners on this journey,” and defiance is unthinkable, even if “partner” is taken as a synonym for “shill.”

 

But the injunction not to ruin anyone’s good time by “revealing spoilers and detailed story points” is itself revealing, an indication of the meager and disposable pleasures this movie is meant to provide, and also of the low regard its makers have for the audience. It hasn’t always been this way, of course.

 

Ooooooof!!

 

Did Disney threaten to take his first child or something if he wrote something negative or revealed spoilers?!

 

This guy didn't write the TFA review (which was very positive - http://nyti.ms/2hjvlOr), so there's no comparison we can make. 

 

But he continues ripping into the film:

 

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Now, though, it is starting to feel like drudgery, a schoolbook exercise in a course of study that has no useful application and that will never end. 

 

He does say some positive things, but the general gist is negative. 

 

Here is a round-up of some other reviews:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/movies/reviews-star-wars-rogue-one.html

 

Mostly positive, as we've heard, but there are some very high profile negatives -- NYT, of course, as well as Richard Brody in the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/rogue-one-reviewed-is-it-time-to-abandon-the-star-wars-franchise):

 

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The director of “Rogue One,” Gareth Edwards, has stepped into a mythopoetic stew so half-baked and overcooked, a morass of pre-instantly overanalyzed implications of such shuddering impact to the series’ fundamentalists, that he lumbers through, seemingly stunned or constrained or cautious to the vanishing point of passivity, and lets neither the characters nor the formidable cast of actors nor even the special effects, of which he has previously proved himself to be a master, come anywhere close to life.

 

Of course, Brody has heaped praise on Lucas for AOTC and ROTS, and criticized Williams' SW scores, so...

 

EDIT: Read this line to get a sense of Brody's general views:

 

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There’s none of the Shakespearean space politics, enticingly florid dialogue, or experiential thrills of the best of George Lucas’s “Star Wars” entries (“Attack of the Clones” and “Revenge of the Sith”). 

 

EDIT: Brody's review has what might be considered major spoilers!! 

 

[KK 3,307]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

The theme for Jyn sounds like a watered-down version of "Across the Stars", which wouldn't be too bad in and of itself. But imagine that theme boiled down to just 4 chords without any melody line on top of it.

 

Ah, just as I feared then. Pity.

[Thor 7,503]

Actually, most of my film critic colleagues here in Norway were impressed by the film and gave it a 5 of 6 rating. I seem to be in the minority (what else is news?) with my more lukewarm response, and altogether negative regarding the music.

 

It's true that the embargo is over, but not sure I should start discussing spoilerish elements just yet? When would it be OK to post thoughts on spoilerish elements?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Time to Bail out of this thread untill i see the film.

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,012]

So... umm... how is the score?

 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Will post my thoughts in the appropriate thread in a few seconds!

[crocodile 8,012]

That was at least a couple of minutes now!
 

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Impatient man!

[Bespin 8,481]

Some critics talk about "possibly the best Star Wars ever".

 

How to lose all credibility!

[Bilbo 3,709]

Every new Star Wars is "the best ever/since Empire" when it first comes out. 

[Jay 37,355]

"Lose", Bes, not "loose"

[Bespin 8,481]

I pressed a little bit too long on the O!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

16 hours ago, Will said:

Embargo's over, apparently.

 

I am going to quote some negative reviews, but remember that most are positive! (Variety, EW, Vanity Fair, Chicago Tribune, etc.)

 

Holy crap -- the NYTimes review is pretty darn negative:

 

Oh, and don't read it if you're avoiding spoilers -- there's a very big hint about a certain scene!

 

 

Ooooooof!!

 

Did Disney threaten to take his first child or something if he wrote something negative or revealed spoilers?!

 

This guy didn't write the TFA review (which was very positive - http://nyti.ms/2hjvlOr), so there's no comparison we can make. 

 

But he continues ripping into the film:

 

 

He does say some positive things, but the general gist is negative. 

 

Here is a round-up of some other reviews:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/movies/reviews-star-wars-rogue-one.html

 

Mostly positive, as we've heard, but there are some very high profile negatives -- NYT, of course, as well as Richard Brody in the New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com/culture/richard-brody/rogue-one-reviewed-is-it-time-to-abandon-the-star-wars-franchise):

 

 

Of course, Brody has heaped praise on Lucas for AOTC and ROTS, and criticized Williams' SW scores, so...

 

EDIT: Read this line to get a sense of Brody's general views:

 

 

EDIT: Brody's review has what might be considered major spoilers!! 

 

 

Don't stress yourself out about what other people think about movies on your radar. You have your own mind do you not? 

 

Quintus - will probably watch this in the new year. 

[Will 2,215]

4 hours ago, BloodBoal said:

Just came back from watching the film.

 

Liked it overall, even though it wasn't as good as I hoped it would be. Some things didn't sit right with me...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Hated the CGI Tarkin and Leia. That was awful.

 

some of the dialogue is a bit clunky, I wish there had been more character development, and the very end feels EXTREMELY rushed but on the whole, it's a satisfying enough experience (it may be a bit more flawed compared to TFA, but at the same time, it tries to offer more new and interesting things compared to that film, so that's a plus).

 

I'll post more thoughts once we start a spoilers-allowed thread (maybe I'll start it if Thor is too afraid to do so!).

 

I opened that spoiler tag and I regret it. 

 

Took a similar risk with TFA and got Han's death spoiled.

 

Just a warning to everyone who's avoiding spoilers - this is a MAJOR one. 

[Quintus 5,399]

There'll be people here who will read it especially now, they can't help themselves. Which is why, if it is a good movie, I will enjoy it that much more than they ever will. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Funny you should say that, because the one thing I mentioned in-between spoiler tags is probably something you won't like!

 

But to be fair, I'm not expecting anyone to like that...

[Quintus 5,399]

Don't worry, I'm not too bothered about this movie one way or another anyway, I haven't been following its progress. 

[Sandor 797]

Saw the film this afternoon: it's good. I wasn't too fond of TFA -it even made me sick of Star Wars-, but Rogue One is a much more satisfying film and brings back some of the love. It feels like it's actually trying to tell a coherent story which ties in perfectly with Episode IV.

[King Mark 3,631]

Does any of the reviews mention the lack of John Williams score or nobody gives a shit except us?

[Wojo 2,453]

I don't. 

[tUfnTIEfighter 7]

6 hours ago, king mark said:

Does any of the reviews mention the lack of John Williams score or nobody gives a shit except us?

 

Review roundup 

 

The San Francisco Chronicle has 2 mentions of the music in their mostly negative review, stating:

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 and the angle and the music, which sounds like John Williams but not as good, announces that this is a “Star Wars” movie. 

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It’s a downer. It’s morally tangled. The characters are as depressed as the scenario, and Michael Giacchino’s music can’t make it better. 

 

 

The Miami Herald:

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“Rogue One” is the first “Star Wars” movie that doesn’t open with a blast of John Williams’ symphonic score (the music is by Michael Giacchino). It doesn’t have an opening crawl or even much use for the Force. The changes don’t pay off, though, because the movie doesn’t offer anything memorable enough to replace them.

 

 

Cinemalogue writes:

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The split-personality disorder is multiplied by Michael Giacchino’s (characteristically) anemic score, standing in for the superlative Alexandre Desplat who bowed out due to scheduling conflicts.  While John Williams is no Nino Rota, indiscriminately stealing from Holst, he does understand the importance of strong themes.

 

 

Philly.com has this to say:

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Drafted by experienced composer Michael Giacchino (Doctor Strange, Star Trek Beyond), the music uses famous passages from Williams’ sweeping Star Wars score. Here again, Rogue One overdoes it, cramming the grand orchestral score into every inch of the movie. 

 

 

Reelview

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 His work here is better than his contributions to the Star Trek films and a huge step-up from Doctor Strange but it could be argued that his source material is stronger. When it comes to remixing Williams’ cues, Giacchino is at the top of his game. His original contributions aren’t as impressive. 

 

 

The Star

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(Conversely, when John Williams’ familiar Star Wars theme sounds from amidst Michael Giacchino’s clamorous score, it’s a balm to battered ears.)

 

 

Chicago Sun times deducted a few points, among other reasons for the score:

Quote

and the score was a bit heavy-handed and overbearing in the transitions from “inspirational music to accompany our heroes” to “foreboding harbinger of bad things to come” when various villains enter the picture.

 

All in all, the score isn't mentioned too much in either positive or negative reviews. Maybe a third of the reviews I read mentioned it, meaning it probably does its job without being great