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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (Gareth Edwards 2016)


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On 5/8/2017 at 0:52 PM, Pieter_Boelen said:

 

I honestly don't think they could afford to to give the characters a lot of depth.

You either do that and keep them alive OR you kill them and don't give them a lot of depth.

Doing anything else would result in a film that would NOT be kid-friendly enough for Star Wars.

That would have caused backlash from parents at best...


 

 

What are you talking about?  Are you saying all movies with character depth are inappropriate for kids? 

 

And I don't see how this is an either/or situation.  The characters could have depth and still die. 

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1 hour ago, Demodex said:

 

What are you talking about?  Are you saying all movies with character depth are inappropriate for kids? 

 

And I don't see how this is an either/or situation.  The characters could have depth and still die. 

I'm saying that if you give the characters a lot of depth and make them very likeable, their deaths have a larger impact.

Of course the characters could have depth and still die. That would just result in a lot of shocked kids left in the cinema.

 

My brother didn't quite appreciate it even in its current (relatively low-impact) form;

I shudder to imagine how he would've responded if he had gotten more attached to those characters!

 

So they could have worked more on the characters and give the film a higher impact.

But if they had, they would have had to issue a warning to go with the movie and, possibly, even advertise it to a different audience.

That would have limited the film's exposure and may have alienated  one of the primary fanbases.

 

Would it have made for a better movie? Possibly yes. In fact, probably yes. But I can understand why they decided against it.

It was the wisest choice from an economic point of view, if not an artistic one.

Given the constraints of being "as economically viable as possible", I reckon they did relatively well.

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You wouldn't make a kid watch Saving Private Ryan on their 12th, would you?

Likewise with a similar film set in the Star Wars in universele.

Sure, there can be some. But a balance needs to be struck, which slides further towards "inoffensive" as the audience gets younger.

Star Wars' youngest fans are pretty young, as I witnessed first hand in the cinema.

So the film makers have to take that into account, whether you like it or not and whether it makes the film better or not.

The profit margins demand it.

 

Of course that is not necessarily a good thing; probably even the opposite.

But it is true nonetheless.

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20 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

There are better movies to show your kid than Saving Private Ryan. Or Rogue One. 

I'm certain of it! But the kids themselves do want to see Star Wars, no? :P

And who is Disney to deny them when the kids bring in money through their parents?

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  • 1 month later...

Reminds me of those articles written by overly proud parents who create an exaggerated transcript of their children's 'commentary' and reactions to The Empire Strikes Back. Oh yeah it sounds totally real.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 years later...

I would love to see an early cut of Rogue One (and Solo).  I loved the final cut of Rogue One and liked Solo pretty well, but academically I think it would be fascinating to see what was working, what wasn't.  Same with some of the fabled early cuts of Star Wars, etc.

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I'd love to see pre-reshoot footage from TFA, R1, and Solo. I don't have any particular sense that it would be better than what we ultimately got, but it would indeed be academically interesting.

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I'd like to see both just to try to spot what was so offensive to the studio that they had to film two movies twice. 

Just now, Datameister said:

I'd love to see pre-reshoot footage from TFA, R1, and Solo. I don't have any particular sense that it would be better than what we ultimately got, but it would indeed be academically interesting.

 

How much was there for TFA? I know there's the whole Leia plot at the beginning of the movie that was cut.

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11 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

I'd like to see both just to try to spot what was so offensive to the studio that they had to film two movies twice. 

 

How much was there for TFA? I know there's the whole Leia plot at the beginning of the movie that was cut.

 

There are some deleted scenes like those that have been publicly released, but it sounds like a fair number of subtler tweaks to the characterization happened in reshoots. Finn and Rey's relationship reportedly would have been more contentious, for one.

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42 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

There are some deleted scenes like those that have been publicly released, but it sounds like a fair number of subtler tweaks to the characterization happened in reshoots. Finn and Rey's relationship reportedly would have been more contentious, for one.

 

Oh yeah, those things.

 

I still think Rey was presented as Han and Leia's daughter in an earlier version, based on a full plot leak that was otherwise completely accurate from May of 2015. I'm saying this was filmed and references to it were edited out of the final cut.

 

Besides, it would make Rey hugging Leia make a hell of a lot more sense at the end, even ignoring Chewie. 

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If WB gave Snyder $30 millions for him to finish Justice League as he pleases, and with a new score, why don't Disney give a little money to Gareth Edwards for him to finish his cut of Rogue One, scored by Desplat? It could premiere on Disney Plus.

 

I know it's not that simple, but it could be interesting.

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Did Edwards get to finish shooting all the scenes for his version before he was booted?

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It was my understanding that principal photography was finished, and the cavalry came in for reshoots.  So the answer is probably "mostly, except for the gaps he found that he would have intended to fill with reshoots"

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Yeah, it's weird that after being credited in two highly successful blockbusters, he's still hasn't been hired for anything. 

 

Maybe the difficult production of Rogue One made studios look at him as someone hard to work with?

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You'd think he'd at least be able to work in prestige television or something.  He's clearly a team player given how he's the only director that LucasFilm moved to the side that stuck with the project to the end and still did publicity

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It was such a weird situation - news of what was going on behind the scenes was widely reported by reputable outlets, but he still affably did all of the promotion months later at the time of release.  Since LFL didn't cut all ties, it strikes me that "difficult to work with" was not likely the reason for the split - moreso that "it just wasn't working out"
 

I hope he'll work again.  I liked Monsters and Rogue One, including whatever portion was his.  His Godzilla was fine but not exceptional.  Must be a heck of an ego blow to get a dream job and then be publicly (in spite of the spin) canned.

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10 minutes ago, mstrox said:

It was my understanding that principal photography was finished, and the cavalry came in for reshoots. 

 

Weren't the supposed "reshoots" just those added shots of Darth Vader that editor Jabez Olssen suggested could be cool?

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35 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

 

Oh yeah, those things.

 

I still think Rey was presented as Han and Leia's daughter in an earlier version, based on a full plot leak that was otherwise completely accurate from May of 2015. I'm saying this was filmed and references to it were edited out of the final cut.

 

Besides, it would make Rey hugging Leia make a hell of a lot more sense at the end, even ignoring Chewie. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised. The cut away from Maz's "who's the girl?" line to Han still feels like it's suggesting that Han knows more than he's letting on, even though we now know he definitely didn't.

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No, the reshoots were pretty substantial.  They brought in Tony Gilroy to take over, and based on what has been publicly stated, they completely reworked the Jyn Erso character to make her more sympathetic (losing some of her "bad girl" moments seen in the first trailer, for instance - "I rebel.") and restructured the final battle in the tropics substantially.

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I really haven't investigated the production on that film to any real extent, but often those sorts of reshoots are much less expansive or detrimental than people think. Very often they're just a couple of harmless pickups.

 

Look at The Rise of Skywalker: I'm probably among the people who most dislike it, but in terms of "reshoots"? Just a little pickup with Luke. Really not something that transforms the movie for good or bad.

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21 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I really haven't investigated the production on that film to any real extent, but often those sorts of reshoots are much less expansive or detrimental than people think. Very often they're just a couple of harmless pickups.

 

Look at The Rise of Skywalker: I'm probably among the people who most dislike it, but in terms of "reshoots"? Just a little pickup with Luke. Really not something that transforms the movie for good or bad.

 

In this case, the spin was just that - "just normal reshoots" - https://ew.com/article/2016/06/23/star-wars-rogue-one-reshoot-concerns/

 

And a few years later, Gilroy discussed his input on the film:

https://ew.com/movies/2018/04/05/rogue-one-reshoots-tony-gilroy/

 

Quote

“I came in after the director’s cut,” Gilroy confirmed on The Moment with Brian Koppelman podcast. “I have a screenplay credit in the arbitration that was easily won.” He further described the situation as “a mess” and “such a swamp.”

Felicity Jones starred in Rogue One as Jyn Erso, who joins a rag-tag team from the Rebel Alliance to steal blueprints for the Death Star — all this before the events of Star Wars: A New Hope.

 

“If you look at Rogue, all the difficulty with Rogue and all the confusion of it and all the smart people and all the mess, and in the end when you get in there, it’s actually very, very simple to solve,” Gilroy remarked. “Because you sort of go, ‘This is a movie where, folks, just look. Everyone is gonna die.’ So it’s a movie about sacrifice.”

Ben Mendelsohn, who played villain Orson Krennic, teased a different story when speaking with Collider in December of 2016. “There would be enormously different renderings,” he said, recalling “enormous differences within I would’ve said 20 or 30 of the scenes.”

Gilroy reiterated the fix “was instantly clear to me,” referring to the development of Jones and Diego Luna’s characters. “I saw the purity that was missing and I saw that, at least, in terms of one or two of the characters because who knew how big the fix was gonna be? Who knew what people would do?”

I have no problem with reshoots - they're essential to any huuuge movie.  And I have no problems with Rogue One's reshoots specifically because I loved the end product.  But it is what it is.

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Yeah there was nothing in this case that indicated that "half the film was reshot". I think that was just some bullshit rumor from Mike Zeroh probably. Solo is a bit of a different case considering the actual directors were replaced half-way through.

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I thought every shot in the final cut of Solo was from Ron Howard's shoot and the original Lord/Miller footage was completely junked?

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I think some Lord/Miller footage made the final cut, but less than the 10% threshold that would've afforded them co-director credits. 

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4 hours ago, Datameister said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised. The cut away from Maz's "who's the girl?" line to Han still feels like it's suggesting that Han knows more than he's letting on, even though we now know he definitely didn't.

 

Plus, right after that, that whole speech about Luke's saber and his father's before him, and now it calls to you. Definitely suggests a family connection.

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4 hours ago, Jay said:

I thought every shot in the final cut of Solo was from Ron Howard's shoot and the original Lord/Miller footage was completely junked?

 

Nope. A few people have talked about some of the scenes Lord/Miller did, Jon Kasdan was one of them. The entire Chewy/Han fight sequence when the first meet for example was all Lord/Miller.

 

40 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said:

Plus, right after that, that whole speech about Luke's saber and his father's before him, and now it calls to you. Definitely suggests a family connection.

 

The second trailer of course has Luke's ROTJ line "my father has it, I have it, my sister has it, you have that power too", which definitely led me to believe she was somehow related to Luke, whether she was his daughter or some other relative.

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Plus that longing, regretful look Han gives Rey when she says, "I didn't know there was this much green in the whole galaxy."

 

Always seemed to hint that Han's connection with Rey was deeper, or perhaps there was some lingering guilt over something. Ignore the fact this video is a parody and just focus on Ford's performance:

 

But fuck it! She's Palpatine's granddaughter now! Bet you didn't expect that! 

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2 hours ago, crumbs said:

Plus that longing, almost regretful look Han gives Rey when she says "I never knew there was this much green in the universe." 

 

Always seemed to hint that Han's connection with Rey was something deeper, or perhaps there was some lingering guilt. 

 

But fuck it! She's Palpatine's granddaughter now! Bet you didn't expect that! 

 

Yeah, that one too.

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10 hours ago, crumbs said:

Plus that longing, regretful look Han gives Rey when she says, "I didn't know there was this much green in the whole galaxy."

 

Always seemed to hint that Han's connection with Rey was deeper, or perhaps there was some lingering guilt over something. Ignore the fact this video is a parody and just focus on Ford's performance:

 

But fuck it! She's Palpatine's granddaughter now! Bet you didn't expect that! 

 

Plus that part right after when he offers her a spot on the crew. You could tell he was being cute, pretending he didn't know who she was. 

 

and yeah, the "Who's the girl" cuts away quickly before Han can answer, and two seconds later Maz is confronting Rey like she knows who she is and where her destiny lies. 

 

Even the way Luke looks at her at the very end of the movie, like he's seeing someone he knew grown up.

 

I think that's why everyone was in such a frenzy after the movie released. There were TONS of clues because they were obviously left over from when they were more direct about who she was, but I guess Abrams thought he was being cute and making it more mysterious. 

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