Arpy 4,145 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 The meta approach is off-putting, like it's drawing attention to itself, singing and dancing 'Look at me! Look at me! I'm Star Wars!!' Yet, I still think it's a well-constructed film with both visuals and in some of the character moments. The Kylo/Rey tension was great. Chen G. and greenturnedblue 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Ugh it has its moments I guess. Like the crashy bit in space and Luke marching outside to face the baddies. But who the hell was this movie made for? This shit didn't happen by accident, the douche who made it knew he was sabotaging the whole thing for shits and giggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 48 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: The Rise of Skywalker is more fun, which is all that matters for a Star Wars movie There wasn't one moment in Rise Of Skywalker that I would call "fun". Unless you qualify derision as that. Chen G. and Brundlefly 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, gkgyver said: There wasn't one moment in Rise Of Skywalker that I would call "fun". Unless you qualify derision as that. I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, The Big Man said: But who the hell was this movie made for? This shit didn't happen by accident, the douche who made it knew he was sabotaging the whole thing for shits and giggles. I still think Johnson just likes to make divisive movies. He knows controversy gets great attention. He was chosen on purpose as not a Star Wars guy who could not be emotionally attached to the series and do something divisive. All media these days is made so you'll go online and talk about it. Look at Mando. Spoiler They have a random guy show up at the end of the show. How many people are going to know who this actor is playing a minor character looking completely different than in the movie he was in 18 years ago? That ending was presented that way so people would go online and discuss it, and articles would be written explaining it and promoting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 The Last Jedi never goes anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Not true. It goes down the toilet once the ludicrous codebreaker plot starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 It starts with them getting chased by the first order and ends with them getting chased by the first order... and now Luke is dead (but that's ok because he had Peace and Purpose) A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I don't understand the whole Codebreaker plot, or the slow space chase. It felt like it was all a ln afterthought to take a backseat to Rey and Luke's story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Rey and Luke doesn't really matter either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 They're arguably the maim focus of the story in The Last Jedi, which is why I felt the Finn/Rose bullshit was an unnecessary distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,276 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 To sum it up: Finn/Rose bullshit : Did not bring anything forward in the story. Incomprehensible code breaker plot. Just to keep them busy. Poe/Holdo plot: Weak story if conflicts are just based on people not talking to each other for no reason and later for no reason secrets revealed. Learned nothing from nothing. Space chase: Felt like the plot of a mediocre clone wars episode, but there we saw better. Rey/Luke story: See Poe/Holdo. Rey/Kylo plot: The only thing worth watching in the movie Bonus: Kylo Snoke twist was entertaining. Bonus malus: In Canto Bight the outofthisworldliness of star wars got lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,397 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: It starts with them getting chased by the first order and ends with them getting chased by the first order... and now Luke is dead (but that's ok because he had Peace and Purpose) Empire starts with them on the run laying low from the Empire and ends with them on the run laying low from the Empire... and now Han is frozen, maybe dead until he decides if he wants to be in the next one or not (but that's ok because they're going to save him). crumbs and mstrox 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: TLJ feels like fucking Stargate SG1 It does? Not a bad thing! Pretty great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,271 Posted November 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2020 TLJ is the best Star Wars film since ESB. Pieter Boelen, Bilbo and Smaug The Iron 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,276 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 And Admiral Holdo is the best Star Wars character since Han Solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,612 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Damn, we’re litigating this movie again? Edmilson and mrbellamy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, crumbs said: TLJ is the best Star Wars film since ESB. What does that even mean, though? Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are middling, The Phantom Menace is a step or two down from that and Attack of the Clones is... well, Attack of the Clones. The Force Awakens is quite good (I personally prefer it to The Last Jedi) and Rogue One is again middling. ”Best since Empire” is such a piece of faint praise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,271 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chen G. said: What does that even mean, though? It means TLJ is the best Star Wars film since ESB. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, mstrox said: Damn, we’re litigating this movie again? After being on the fence for two and a half years, I've just decided that I reckon it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, crumbs said: It means TLJ is the best Star Wars film since ESB. TLJ is the worst Star Wars film ever made. And to whoever said it feels like Stargate SG-1, TLJ wishes it was as good as that show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,709 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Let me just join the choir briefly and say that I don’t enjoy TLJ. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,259 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Haters gonna hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,268 Posted November 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2020 Rise of Skywalker is a far, far, far worse film. There's absolutely nothing to it, except the score Pieter Boelen, Edmilson, Chen G. and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 There are little morsels in it: I love that scene of Poe at Leia’s deathbed, when Lando comes in. There are moments in the action setpieces that are vaguely exciting, a few funny jokes, and it all generally looks nice; there’s also something nice about the denouement in the Homestead, especially with the score and all of that. Otherwise; it’s a vapid movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 But... it's Disney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I was so sold on TROS for the first part of the film. Then it all fell apart, starting when Hux revealed himself. Nowadays it's my least favorite of the three. It had the unenviable task of wrapping up two films that pull the story in very different directions, and I'm sad to say it failed completely, which hurt the trilogy as a whole. I haven't even watched it since the theatrical run, which is a first for me in Star Wars. TLJ...man, I can't really defend it in any intellectual way, but for whatever reason, the things I initially disliked about it just don't bother me as much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,259 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 As flawed as TLJ is, it's nowhere near as detestable as TROS. That movie is nothing but vapid shit. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 52 minutes ago, Datameister said: I was so sold on TROS for the first part of the film. Then it all fell apart Really? for me it was "off" since the text crawl and first few frames. There's a difference between an in medias res opening and putting the plot on fast-forward. I was trying to keep an open mind about the inclusion of Palpatine, but the film gave itself basically no time to build to a dramatic reappearance. It just happened. That's the whole movie, really. A collosal loss of nerve on JJ Abrams' part when it comes to the pacing. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I liked the opening, it felt exciting and new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,276 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Really, for me it was "off" since the text crawl and first few frames. There's a difference between an in medias res opening and putting the plot on fast-forward. I was trying to keep an open mind about the inclusion of Palpatine, but the film gave itself basically no time to build to a dramatic reappearance. It just happened. That's the whole movie, really. A collosal loss of nerve on JJ Abrams' part when it comes to the pacing. I was just dissapointed that they did not bring back Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Vader, Darth Plagueis and Boba Fett as well. And the dead shark from Jaws. greenturnedblue and Pieter Boelen 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,019 Posted November 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Chen G. said: Really, for me it was "off" since the text crawl and first few frames. There's a difference between an in medias res opening and putting the plot on fast-forward. I was trying to keep an open mind about the inclusion of Palpatine, but the film gave itself basically no time to build to a dramatic reappearance. It just happened. That's the whole movie, really. A collosal loss of nerve on JJ Abrams' part when it comes to the pacing. I know a lot of people had a problem with the pacing of the early parts of the film, which is obviously a valid feeling, but it never bothered me. I thought the fast-paced opening worked. TLJ was the one that literally felt "off" to me from the beginning, at least on first viewing. That awkward first shot felt like it should have continued tracking all the way down to the planet's surface...I'm not sure I would have liked that approach, but it felt like that was the intention and then Johnson lost his nerve. Then the verbatim quotes of Kylo's theme and (during the battle) the Resistance theme gave me an uncomfortable sequelly feeling. Again, none of this bothers me so much anymore, but it was definitely off-putting at first. My only distaste for the early parts of TROS come from being associated with the rest of the film. I will say Palpatine's inclusion was handled horribly all around. I gave the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt at first, thinking they might bring it all together in a way that made sense later on, but it never happened. Really unfortunate; I love the character and McDiarmid's performances. Chen G., Not Mr. Big and A. A. Ron 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,621 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 My brain detected signals of danger when the first thing we hear after the crawl is a quote from ANH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Datameister said: Palatine's inclusion was handled horribly all around. I gave the filmmakers the benefit of the doubt at first, thinking they might bring it all together in a way that made sense later on, but it never happened. Really unfortunate My issue is the underlying reason behind why he's back: "Well, we obviously need some kind of overlord for Kylo to betray in the name of good" because, obviously, there's no other way to end a Star Wars trilogy... Its like these people never heard of Macbeth, and how its okay to have a character get consumed by his self-destructive tendencies, as opposed to doing a wussie, tired and detestable redemption arc. Datameister, A. A. Ron and GerateWohl 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 19 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: My brain detected signals of danger when the first thing we hear after the crawl is a quote from ANH That too. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Pieter Boelen and A. A. Ron 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 When I want a political commentator to give me advice on movies, I will tell him. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Aw, lighten up, Chen. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,714 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: I hate Shapiro, but that's hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,259 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 58 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: Isn't that the moron who said the accusations against Brett Kavanaugh couldn't be proved because none of his victims described his penis? Just shows what kind of idiots who made of their life's goals to troll TLJ. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I will admit, part of the issue with Kylo's redemption arc is that Johnson's film didn't do enough to shut the door on that eventuality. Johnson does fortify Kylo on the Dark Side, but he never actually commits to making him irredeemable to the audience, and that's a problem that falls on that movie's shoulders as much as anything. This trilogy may not have had a plan, but what it did have was the supposition that the writers must, as Chris Terrio puts it, "find a path to redemption for Kylo Ren, the son of Han and Leia." I find it unsettling that, not only did a large group of people involved with the making a film trilogy never saw this storytelling choice as amoral, but neither did the fans. In fact, they were expecting this ending since the midpoint of The Force Awakens, never once stopping to question its morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 44 minutes ago, Chen G. said: I will admit, part of the issue with Kylo's redemption arc is that Johnson's film didn't do enough to shut the door on that eventuality. Johnson does fortify Kylo on the Dark Side, but he never actually commits to making him irredeemable to the audience, and that's a problem that falls on that movie's shoulders as much as anything. This trilogy may not have had a plan, but what it did have was the supposition that the writers must, as Chris Terrio puts it, "find a path to redemption for Kylo Ren, the son of Han and Leia." I find it unsettling that, not only did a large group of people involved with the making a film trilogy never saw this storytelling choice as amoral, but neither did the fans. In fact, they were expecting this ending since the midpoint of The Force Awakens, never once stopping to question its morality. I mean, after he killed Han, I had a certain feeling of, Oh shit, there's no bringing him back from this. Like, Vader commits atrocities aplenty in the OT, but he never murders a [EDIT: non-Force-ghost-able] main protagonist who's been a fan favorite for 40-odd years. This felt different. Which was...interesting, because it left me wondering how they would eventually bring his story to a conclusion without the redemption angle. They had a plan, I assumed...wrongly. Pieter Boelen and Chen G. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Datameister said: I mean, after he killed Han, I had a certain feeling of, Oh shit, there's no bringing him back from this. Like, Vader commits atrocities aplenty in the OT, but he never murders a main protagonist who's been a fan favorite for 40-odd years. Which would have not been the case if the prequels had been first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, Spider-Fal said: Which would have not been the case if the prequels had been first. Not necessarily. I doubt Lucas would have written a redemption arc had he first come up with the atrocities that he has Anakin perform in the prequel trilogy. The worse thing he has Vader do (by his own hand - not by facilitation) in the classic trilogy is kill Old Ben, and even that happens in-action. It seems the idea that Anakin would perform mass massacres was a late introduction even in the course of developing the prequel trilogy: early drafts of The Phantom Menace seem to set-up a scenario where Watto will kill Shmi, in which case Anakin would not have had any reason to go slaughtering sand children - he'd just murder Watto. When Lucas added that beat to the story, and Padme's cavalier "to be angry is to be human" he paved the road to the kind of moral bankruptcy that we see in The Rise of Skywalker. Both are despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Spider-Fal said: Which would have not been the case if the prequels had been first. I just edited my post with an important detail: a protagonist who has to actually stay dead and not return as a Force ghost. My point being, Vader never actually ended any such character's role in the films. He helps precipitate Padme's death in the prequels, but that's neither intentional nor unexpected. With Kylo, it was like, "This sonofabitch just ended Han Solo's role in the films!" I had a hard time imagining myself forgiving him for that. I will admit his redemption in TROS could have been...somewhat worse. Even with the supremely uncomfortable kiss and the rather sudden and confusing way it comes about. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Where do you guys come up with rules of who can and can’t redeem themselves, and under what circumstances? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 There's a reason Commodus doesn't get a redemption arc, you know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,278 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Because the author didn't want him to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pellaeon said: Where do you guys come up with rules of who can and can’t redeem themselves, and under what circumstances? No rules, just a subjective gut feeling about what feels dramatically "right". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,894 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spider-Fal said: Because the author didn't want him to? No, because it would have been amoral to give him one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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