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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Rian Johnson 2017)

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53 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Can't believe this hadn't occurred to me! Really reiterates the love and attention to detail Rian put into the film. Very impressed with how he closed out Luke's story.



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You literally just described what a trailer is.

I think it's Williams.

  • 2 weeks later...
6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

@Disco Stu, a list that sees The Phantom Menace at the top of even just the prequels is not to be trusted all that much.


I disagree. While I personally find ROTS to be the most entertaining of the prequel trilogy (though that's not saying much), there's no doubt in my mind that TPM is the best film of the bunch. It feels like a much better made film overall with more actual sets and practical effects, and it doesn’t have nearly as many dumb, futile efforts to tie things in with the OT, such as having Obi-wan learn to communicate with the ghost of Qui-Gon or Boba Fett being an 8-year-old, etc. It also benefits from the absence of Christensen's Anakin, and all the whining and childish drama associated with the character.


6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Hell, Revenge of the Sith is better than Rogue One.


Huh? Granted, R1 had plenty of issues with characters and pacing, but ranking it lower than ROTS makes me wonder how well you remember that film.

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The OT has already stood the test of time.


I think TFA will, too. Its flaws are all-too-well-known (“it’s a remake” + various Starkiller issues), and now that they’re taken for granted, appreciation of everything else will only grow. VERY appealing performances by Ridley and Ford. Memorable lines and stark visuals. A lot of heart and a lot of excitement.


As for all the rest, it’s a contest for worst place. Why bother?

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I think Revenge of the Sith is a much better formatted narrative, where with Rogue One the reshoots and all host of last-minute decisions made it not feel like one single story being told by one single storyteller.


Actually, Revenge of the Sith is one of the better structured of all the Star Wars films: of the original sextet, Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace don't really have a straightforward three-act structure: In Return of the Jedi, the first act begins about forty minutes in; and in The Phantom Menace, there is a main plot told in three act, but its interrupted by the introduction of Anakin (who at this point has very little to contribute to the overall story of the film). Attack of the Clones isn't well structured, either, because the story of Shmi isn't woven through the narrative so Anakin going to find her just doesn't feel like it belongs in the story.


Revenge of the Sith has a very defined first act with a "James Bond" opening: it may be a long one, but most of these films traffic in long first acts; It has a very good midpoint, which introduces a plot twist (Anakin turns against Windu) and succesfully delinates the two halves of the film; and while there are elements of the third act that kind of suck (mainly, the way its reduced to a flashy action sequence) its at least much more linear, and that's the main thing I appreciate about this film: its Anakin's story much more so than Rogue One is Jyn's.

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14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The Force Awakens is better.


Better paced and more polished.


@Disco Stu, a list that sees The Phantom Menace at the top of even just the prequels is not to be trusted all that much. Hell, Revenge of the Sith is better than Rogue One.


The Phantom Menace is absolutely the best prequel, imo.  ROTS for me is worst.

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I can see where you're coming from: I like the action setpieces in the film, and the choreography is flashy without being totally ridiculous (well, most of the time). But it doesn't have the most clearly defined story, because:

Anakin's story isn't woven into the main conflict of the film all that well.

The story itself doesn't push the Star Wars narrative forward.


I also think the four-pronged finale is way too overwrought; and of course there's the comic relief: not just Jar Jar but really all the Gungans. This, of course, besides the technical issues of acting, effects and even some of the framing.


Revenge of the Sith has its problems (and I mean serious problems, not minutiae), but nothing on that scale; and it has some of the best structural choices and drama not just of the three prequels but of the entire series.


With just a bit more polish it could have been one of the very best of the series!


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AotC is consistently horrible, RotS has good highlights but when it's bad, it can be worse and more boring than AotC; Phantom Menace is the only one I feel has genuine passion and heart behind it somewhere, the will to make a great movie.

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In terms of people behind it wanting to make a good product, I would say otherwise. In watching Revenge of the Sith (which to be fair I haven't rewatched in quite some time) I always get the feeling that this is the story Lucas has been wanting to tell all along, but ever since he re-labeled the original Star Wars as episode IV he was chained to the idea of a prequel trilogy which, when he actually turned around to write it, didn't amount to much more substance than that of one film: In terms of the overarching narrative of the three prequels, 90% of it is in Revenge of the Sith, with the other two being these cluncky preludes of sorts to this film.


Its also the most Anakin-centric, which imbues it with a sense of focus that the other two lacked. It does have Grievous which only exists to get Obi Wan out of the picture until after the midpoint, but otherwise its told as Anakin's story throughout. Granted, it originally had its fair share of politics, and explored the foundation of the Rebellion, etcetera, but the thing that matters is that Lucas had the wherewithal to cut all of that out, because here he knew that the story took precedence over his vision of the Galaxy, and that more than anything, tells me how important he saw it to not screw this one up too much.


Also, some of the craft in it does impress me: The opening long take (while it is CG rather than practical camerawork) and really the entire "James Bond opening" was on a different scale altogether to Episode I and nonexistent in Episode II; also the decision to make it PG-13 was quite bold in the context of the series because Lucas felt a responsibility to go for it in order to serve the story. I respect the hell out of him for that.


17 hours ago, Holko said:

AotC is consistently horrible


Yep. That it is.


The worst entry ever in any franchise of this magnitude.

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I recently picked up two published SW sourcebooks from the 90s which include timelines. It’s rather interesting to look at the time period of Ep.1 before and after TPM as such was plotted:

A Guide to the Star Wars Universe, Second Edition (1994) Star Wars Encyclopedia (1998)
60 BSW4
Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight, born.
60 BBY
Ben “Obi-Wan” Kenobi is born.
55 BSW4
Anakin Skywalker born.
41 BBY
Anakin Skywalker is born.
35 BSW4
Clone Wars end.
32 BBY
Emperor Palpatine begins his rise to power.
29 BSW4
Han Solo born in Corellian star system.
29 BBY
Han Solo is born.
Fall of the Republic
A dark period of corruption and social injustice sweeps through
the Republic, paving the way for Senator Palpatine’s rise to
22-20 BBY
Anakin Skywalker is seduced by the dark side of the Force and
becomes Darth Vader.
18 BSW4
Luke Skywalker and Leia Organa born and placed in hiding;
Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader; Jedi Knights hunted and
killed; Palpatine becomes Emperor; Empire formed; first
stirrings of rebellion begin.
18 BBY
Luke Skywalker and his twin sister Leia are born.


One of the big disappointments of the PT for me is the lack of imagination surrounding the Clone Wars. The first episode of the serial could have been a dystopian science-out-of-control (escalating and unstable cloning technology; obviously lots of people cloned, not just one) epic about the end of a grand multi-generational war between planets. Against that backdrop, General Kenobi of Alderaan meets great pilot/cunning warrior/good friend Anakin Skywalker. That would have been something. Episode Two could have been the fall of the Republic and Anakin’s seduction to evil, and in Episode Three it should already have full-blown looked-and-felt like classic SW, with the Empire and Star Destroyers and Moffs. Volcano duel at the beginning so you have Darth Vader hunting down Jedi (characters you know and love) all movie.

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I don't necessarily agree. I think there is something to be said for starting this story with the Republic very much alive and actually seeing life in the republic so that we can appreciate how far things have deteriorated in the original Star Wars going forward.


Its all in the execution: not necessarily production value, but the narrative. I would have even been fine with The Phantom Menace not pushing the story forward, had it worked like a succint little "prelude" to what's to come. And the less is said about Attack of the Clones the better...

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  • 4 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

When I first saw the movie (saw it several times) I had mixed and conflicting feelings about it. It was fun but sometimes too irreverent. It was way too long but interesting (how can that be), and so on. When asked "how was the movie", I would answer "it was nice". The visuals were great and original, the music top notch Williams, etc :) Even the screenplay was realy OK. But that being said, I quickly realized I was more making myself like this movie than realy liking it. I could not say why. Today one of the guy I follow posted his 2hours and 30 minutes long (yeah…) in depth review of TLJ and I could not agree more. It's in French but I thought I'd share it with you guys :) 






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8 hours ago, toothless said:

I quickly realized I was more making myself like this movie than realy liking it. I could not say why.


Because it’s a Rian Johnson film, and it’s “artsy” and “meta” - the kind of film that movie buffs love to love, but average filmgoers are more cavalier about.

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13 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Expressing dislike for TLJ could have you branded as an "incel" and the FBI will bug your phone to monitor whether you're planning a machine gun massacre. 

What are you, some kind of incel? I have half a mind to report you to the FBI.

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  • 2 years later...

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