Why was it used?

[Guest]

There are two times so far in the Star Wars saga, when a theme is used, without being exactly obvious why.

One time is in "Empire", when Luke runs through the corridors of Cloud City, is being shot by Boba Fett etc.

You here a action variant of "Yoda´s theme" there.

Why do you think it´s used?

The second time is in "Attack of the Clones".

When Anakin hops on the Swoop, speeding away in search for his mother, you hear "Duel of the Fates".

Again, why do you think it was used?

As far as I can think, no booklets(anthology or special edition for the first case) give the answers to the "why".

I have my own ideas for the answers, but I want to hear yours first .

I thought this would make up a good discussion .

[Hlao-roo 389]

First of all, John Williams has been loose with his application of themes in the series.

As for the use of Yoda's Theme (which constitutes one of the most annoying passages in TESB for me), people have justified it "rationally" by saying that what's happening is just as Yoda had vaguely foreseen. I'm not sure I buy the explanation, but it's the best one I've seen.

[Lurker 5]

Dramatically it worked well.

I'm more bothered by AOTC's use of TPM's giant fish music being used in the big arena fight.

Neil

[Guest]

Dramatically it worked well.  

I'm more bothered by AOTC's use of TPM's giant fish music being used in the big arena fight.  

I agree it worked well .

But giant fish music is a reuse, so I think it´s quite different and this was done by the sound editors and not John Williams.

[Guest]

You forgot the most famous:

Leia's theme is heard when Ben dies in Star Wars.

And I think Williams has gone on record to state that this was a purely musical decision, unassociated with leitmotifs. It's not a completely foreign notion - Wagner does it in his operas.

[UCFKevin 0]

The one where Anakin goes to find his mother......uh....well, it IS called "Duel of the Fates." One fate is good, one is bad. ANakin is heading off to his fate, and it ain't gonna be good. It makes perfect sense to me.

[Justin 2]

As for the use of Yoda's Theme (which constitutes one of the most annoying passages in TESB for me)

Are you talking about the film? :?

Are you talking about the score?

Are you just being sarcastic?

Let me spell it out for you.

1st answer: banghead

2nd Answer:

3rd Answer:

Justin -Wasting time and emoticons.

[Trumpeteer 302]

I believe I read somewhere that Leia's theme was used after Ben's death, instead of the Force theme because Leia's theme had a more romantic mood to it, and it had a sense of urgency than the Force theme.

I think Yoda's theme was used in Empire for the same reason. It had an adventurous tone that couldn't be found in other themes (other than the Rebel Fanfare, which was largely unused in Empire).

[Justin 2]

The one where Anakin goes to find his mother......uh....well, it IS called "Duel of the Fates." One fate is good, one is bad. ANakin is heading off to his fate, and it ain't gonna be good. It makes perfect sense to me.

I think it's there because Lucas said to put it there. Don't tell me you honestly think Williams choses what music to go where?

Justin

[Hlao-roo 389]

As for the use of Yoda's Theme (which constitutes one of the most annoying passages in TESB for me)

Are you just being sarcastic?

My sarcasm is usually not that subtle...

The score. Until AOTC arrived last spring, TESB was my biggest dust collector in the Star Wars saga. Nonetheless, the three main themes he wrote are classics, and "The Snow Battle" and "The Asteroid Field" are real treats.

[Dole 17]

Until AOTC arrived last spring, TESB was my biggest dust collector in the Star Wars saga.

Are you serious? I guess everyone has different tastes. I find that out of all the SW soundtracks, ESB and AOTC have the most listenable tracks. Many of the tracks on ROTJ and TPM (Luke Confronts Jabba, Watto's Deal, etc.) may work well in the film but are somewhat boring as listening experiences.

Dole

[UCFKevin 0]

I think it's there because Lucas said to put it there. Don't tell me you honestly think Williams choses what music to go where?  

Justin

Can you tell me honestly that you know for a fact that Lucas told him to do that and it wasn't all Williams?

[Eplicon 53]

The idea behing using "Yoda's Theme" (or at least an adventure version of it) during the Cloud City sequences was meant to signify Luke's applying what Yoda taught him during these pivotal movements. The most striking part, of course, was meant to underscore some parts of the lightsaber battle. And in the end, it wasn't even used.

[Guest]

Another one is in TPM, after all the fighting, when Palpatine's ship land on Naboo, you hear Qui Gon's theme. It fits perfecty, but there's no real reason for it to be there.

Morlock- who for some reason can't log in

[Trumpeteer 302]

Another one is in TPM, after all the fighting, when Palpatine's ship land on Naboo, you hear Qui Gon's theme. It fits perfecty, but there's no real reason for it to be there.

Qui-gon had died in the previous scene. His theme was carried over from that scene to the next one with the ship landing.

[Justin 2]

Can you tell me honestly that you know for a fact that Lucas told him to do that and it wasn't all Williams?

That was a little humor on my part.

Justin -who should have used a

[UCFKevin 0]

AH, internet sarcasm. Harder to detect than nuclear warheads!

[Justin 2]

LOL

Justin

[Wojo 2,453]

I believe I read somewhere that Leia's theme was used after Ben's death, instead of the Force theme because Leia's theme had a more romantic mood to it, and it had a sense of urgency than the Force theme.  

Yea, I read that somewhere, too. It makes perfect sense to me.

One time is in "Empire", when Luke runs through the corridors of Cloud City, is being shot by Boba Fett etc.  

You here a action variant of "Yoda´s theme" there.  

I'm glad I rewatched a part of the movie, because I had always remembered Yoda's Theme popping up in just "The Duel," but it's also in the "Carbon Freeze/Darth Vader's Trap/Departure of Boba Fett" cue as well (I grew up on the track names of the 1993 Anthology). It's used as Boba Fett is shooting at Luke, right before Lando sends a message to Lobot, and is later used during "Clash of Lightsabers" after Luke pulls himself up onto the ledge, when Lando, Leia, Chewie, and the droids are battling their way to the Millennium Falcon.

I love that driving beat underneat Yoda's Theme, which seems to kick up the intensity a lot. It does signify Yoda's tutelage to Luke, that Luke is using the skills he learned on Dagobah to help him, but this doesn't explain why it's used when Leia and the gang are on screen, and Luke's over in the central core fighting an onslaught of the Imperial March. Perhaps Yoda's Theme here represents Yoda's words of warning, of how he would have to sacrifice his friends if he valued what they fight for, since Yoda and Obi-Wan both know what horrible truth Luke would learn once he faced Vader. The use of a kickass Yoda's Theme here is Williams' way of hinting at the "I told you so" that awaits Luke once he loses his hand.

I don't know if that makes much sense, I don't think I'm explaining it right.

[tpigeon 3]

Dramatically it worked well.

I'm more bothered by AOTC's use of TPM's giant fish music being used in the big arena fight.    

Neil

me too. can you imagine what the music would have been like for that scene had he scored it? there would have been some great action music i think.

Ted

[UCFKevin 0]

That goes for a lot of moments in AOTC.

[Uni 306]

My pet guess on the use of "Duel of the Fates" for Anakin's little cruise in AOTC--worth as much (or as little) as anyone's theories on any of this stuff:

At least one common link between the those passages in both films is the presence of one of Palpatine's pupils--at least potentially (jeez....try some alliteration for a change....:roll:). Anakin may not yet be a Sith apprentice, but it's in this scene that he allows his anger and hatred to take over and he truly takes the first step down the path of the Dark Side. As a direct result of where his emotions take him (even faster than that speeder bike), he'll eventually take the cowl under Palpatine's wing--and effectively take Darth Maul's place.

That may or may not be the real reasoning behind the music, but it seems appropriate enough.

- Uni

[tpigeon 3]

My pet guess on the use of "Duel of the Fates" for Anakin's little cruise in AOTC--worth as much (or as little) as anyone's theories on any of this stuff:

At least one common link between the those passages in both films is the presence of one of Palpatine's pupils--at least potentially (jeez....try some alliteration for a change....:roll:).  Anakin may not yet be a Sith apprentice, but it's in this scene that he allows his anger and hatred to take over and he truly takes the first step down the path of the Dark Side.  As a direct result of where his emotions take him (even faster than that speeder bike), he'll eventually take the cowl under Palpatine's wing--and effectively take Darth Maul's place.  

That may or may not be the real reasoning behind the music, but it seems appropriate enough.

- Uni

well said, i like it.

Ted

[ymenard 54]

what the music would have been like for that scene had he scored it? there would have been some great action music i think.

Ted

Yeah I speculated with a couple of my friends that we would have probably heard during the arena battle, a big and long orchestration of the Arena March, at least 10 minutes in lenght. The fact that there's some additional stuff on some game for that cue prove that there's probably more stuff that was written for it.

It would had been similar in style to what John did in Return of the Jedi with the ground battle. For me both scenes are similar on screen *and* musically.